$400 for a twenty minute ride on a B-17

John Baker

John Baker

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John Baker
The thread about the B-17 reminded me of this. A few days ago, a B-17 landed at Gillespie Field, KSEE. They ran numerous ads in the paper, and direct mail, urging folks to come and look, they were also offering rides.

I can't recall what the prices were, something like twenty or so dollars to climb aboard and look around, four or five hundred for a twenty minute flight.

Years ago, when I was in flight school out a KSEE, one of the crews from that B-17 or its sister ship, came into the FBO. These guys were dressed up much like they imagined an actual B-17 crew would dress, leather jackets with insignia, etc.

What I could not help noticing about that particular crew was they were actually strutting and swaggering. Very proud of themselves, like they had just come back from a mission over Europe. Real heroes.

Anyway, I was talking to a friend who is an old air force guy. We both have spent many hours knocking around in military aircraft, transports and helicopters for me, that we would not pay to fly in one for twenty or so minutes, or even pay to see the static display, at least not at those prices.

We both believe it is a good cause, keeping them aloft and all, but for us, the thrill is long gone, there are other things we would rather spend our money on.

My question is, would you guys, as experienced pilots, pay four hundred dollars for a 20 minute ride in a B-17? I can understand that war buffs among the general public would consider it a real opportunity, but what about GA pilots?

John
 
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In the left or right seat, heck yes. Anywhere else....probably not.
 
$400 for a 20 minute ride is too rich for my blood, now if it was for an hour, yea I can see me spending $400 on that.
 
I would definitely pay/donate for the walkthrough tour (they need the money to keep the planes going). Not terribly interested in shelling out that much just for a ride though, especially when there are alot of old warbirds that you can actually fly/train in.

Like Chucky said, if it is in the left or right seat, I'd pay even more. I might pay 400-500 for a jumpseat. Anywhere else, I'd rather watch from the ground.
 
Pretty rare opportunity; if I had the dough I would seriously consider it.
 
John Baker said:
My question is, would you guys, as experienced pilots, pay four hundred dollars for a 20 minute ride in a B-17? I can understand that war buffs among the general public would consider it a real opportunity, but what about GA pilots?

John
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It is the same as everything else. For some, it is worth it, for others, it isn't. Just like coughing up the dough for an expensive vacation, a Porsche, or a Piper. None of those things can be justified on an objective basis...

One strategy is to volunteer to collect $$, show people around, or whatever when one of the groups brings a B-17 to your local field. You may get a flight or two for free. I have.
 
They were at Hayward, CA last weekend and I took my kids for walkthrough tour. Kids really liked it. But $400=4 hours wet Hobbs in C-172. I prefer to spend the money on flying 4 hours in Cessna.
 
I really want to catch a ride in a B29 since that's what my dad flew in WWI and up till last summer I'd been saving my pennies for that ride. But when the B17 from YIP was at my home base for the weekend I got talked into paying for a ride and I thoroughly enjoyed the experience. Once at or above 1000 AGL they let you get up and visit all stations except the tail gunner's. I especially liked the bombardier's spot and was hoping to ride there on takeoff or landing but they gave that honor to a vet (couldn't complain about that). I did get a discount on the flight as they cut the price when there were a couple open seats left and it was close to the departure time. I think I paid a bit less than $200. I'd happily pay more than double that for a chance to actually fly the beast.
 
Too rich for my blood. If I was able to be sole manipulator for 20 minutes, then it might be worth it to me.
 
I don't think I would do it but I also think that the price should be thought of more as a contribution to keep it running rather than trying to get the most bang for your buck.
 
To put it in perspective, the cost to fly it (if they were even able to do that- I don't think any of the B-17s offer that) would be substantially higher!

These days DC-3s are running around $1500-2000/hr and B-25s $2500-3000k.
 
If Aluminum Overcast comes back to my town, I will likely run the event. Odds are I'll get a ride in it to its next destination. When I think about the time invested in running the event, $400 seems pretty cheap. And yes, they do need the money to keep the things running. My guess is that they wind up keeping some mechanics employed, and otherwise just break even. If we want these things to fly, we'd best be ready to pay for it.
 
It's one of those "Once in a lifetime" things. Millionaires can shell out the bucks to be hauled to the top of Mount Everest or ride into space, us hoi polloi have to set less-lofty goals.

Being a B-17 fan, it was something I thought about for quite a while. Then I worked a deal....

http://www.wanttaja.com/ronsride.pdf

Ron Wanttaja
 
wanttaja said:
It's one of those "Once in a lifetime" things. Millionaires can shell out the bucks to be hauled to the top of Mount Everest or ride into space, us hoi polloi have to set less-lofty goals.

Being a B-17 fan, it was something I thought about for quite a while. Then I worked a deal....

http://www.wanttaja.com/ronsride.pdf
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Cool. I did the ground-based tour a few years ago and looking at your link I was reminded of how interesting it was to see the Garmins mounted in the panel. :D
 
A couple of years back I was active in EAA Chapter 14 in San Diego. My wife and I both were volunteers when the EAA B-17 was in town. The prices charged for the tours and flights doesn't cover the expense of the tour.
We had several old vets come out to the plane. Hard to keep a dry eye watching them touch the plane and become lost in their memories.
I had a medical appointment and had to opt out of the re-positioning flight. :-(

Paul
N1431A
2AZ1
 
It's a bit high for me. Everytime I've had the chance I've thought about how much flying I could do myself with that money instead..and end up doing just that.
 
kyleb said:
None of those things can be justified on a financial basis.
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Fixed that for you.

four hundred dollars for a 20 minute ride in a B-17?
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Everything is measured in terms of money nowadays. It's worth it. I value ____. Insured for $xxxx... Life is about experiences, not databits representing numbers sitting in a bank account somewhere.

One of these days in the not too distant future, those planes will all be rotting away in museums never to see outside, much less the sky, again. No amount of money would let you experience what one of those are like in flight at that point.

I can't afford to ride in one of those.
I'd do it anyway. Line a B-17, B29 and a P-51 up and I'd ride in all three on the same day.
I just hope I can arrange the opportunity while I can.


Now that I think about it, $400 is about what it takes to get a medical and do a checkout in a ragged out beer can 172.
 
I both think $400 for 20 minutes is a bargain considering the operational cost of those things, and that it is not money well spent. I've seen the B25's and B17's at air shows a couple dozen times and I think I paid the ten bucks or so to crawl around them a couple times, and I've watched them taxi, takeoff and land up close and that's good enough for me. $400 can get me a LOT of fun, in some ways I can't even bring up here.
 
Every time we've had the EAA B-17 here at LZU it stays busy and a lot of our chapter members have the jackets. meaning they flown. Four hundred dollars is pretty cheap compared to the cost to operate those planes and keep them in airworthy condition.
 
Aluminum overcast costs over $2,000/hr to run, and that's with volunter A&P services.....
 
each engine on Fifi the B-29 was about a cool million to convert. i think they run about 50 gal/hr through each engine, and i'm pretty sure that is with every effort to save gas. these old birds are just flat out expensive to operate. Thankfully there are people dedicated enough to keeping them flying to help fund it through major donations, volunteer efforts on maintenance etc. and people willing to pay for rides
 
bbchien said:
Aluminum overcast costs over $2,000/hr to run, and that's with volunter A&P services.....
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Gotta be waaaay more than two grand. I can't speak to the B-17 personally, but I know a few folks with DC-3s and B-25s which is where I came up with the figures I mentioned earlier. Most folks operating these old planes are not operating at a profit and even the guys that are doing flight training typically aren't charging for their services.
 
tonycondon said:
each engine on Fifi the B-29 was about a cool million to convert. i think they run about 50 gal/hr through each engine, and i'm pretty sure that is with every effort to save gas.
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I'd be suprised if they could run at 50 gph per engine on a B-29. The B-25 burns 70 gph per side in cruise (R-2600s)
 
Fearless Tower said:
I'd be suprised if they could run at 50 gph per engine on a B-29. The B-25 burns 70 gph per side in cruise (R-2600s)
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in that case you're probably right. not sure where i heard the 50 number. either way, big money just to start it up.
 
I read in a CAF article that five years ago, before Fifi was put down for restoration, it was costing them $8000 per hour to fly her. Today it should be substantially higher.
 
fgcason said:
One of these days in the not too distant future, those planes will all be rotting away in museums never to see outside, much less the sky, again. No amount of money would let you experience what one of those are like in flight at that point.
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For some reason that comment brought to mind the airplane graveyard scene from the 1946 movie "The Best Years of Our Lives":

 
Hell yeah I'd pay that much for a B-17 ride. I can make $400 any old time, but the opportunities to ride in something like that? Few and far between. And really, given the costs of being an active pilot, $400 just ain't that big a deal.
 
a lot of young men paid a lot more than $400 to ride in a B-17
 
I paid $75 to ride in the back of a Ford Tri-Motor for some taxiing and one trip around the pattern once.

It was fun and worth it.

I haven no idea what the B-17 engines burn but I wouldn't be shocked if they were gulping down fuel at 100gph/engine at full throttle.

It can't be cheap to fly those things for a handful of passengers at a time, much less reposition them across the country.
 
I paid 425 a few years back to do just that. An e-ticket for sure and I'd do it again. I have a video I'll post later.

Edit: in fact I had only walked up to the GA hangar to "kill" an hour before my flight home left. I saw they had it there, thought "when is this opp ever going to come up again" and ponied up there and then. Seriously-- when would it happen again?
 
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I paid to fly in the back of the EAA B17. Lots of fun. I've also paid to fly in a T6. If a Mustang was in the area, I'd jump in that too.
Things you dream of. Just remember.... You can't take it with you.
 
kyleb said:
One strategy is to volunteer to collect $$, show people around, or whatever when one of the groups brings a B-17 to your local field. You may get a flight or two for free. I have.
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Same here. I used to be a line guy for an FBO that hosted a B-17 every year. The last few flights would be free rides for all the volunteers and FBO employees. Very cool, but wouldn't pay $400 to go up.
 
I did it once an enjoyed it. Fun to take off in the bombardier's perch.
 
That's what it cost last year at the Reading Air Show. I got to talking to the pilot and he said each engine burns 50 gal/hr, so thats about $333 worth of fuel in those same 20 minutes. They did, however, let you crawl through it free of charge. I climbed into the left seat and had my girlfriend snap a photo from outside.:D
 
fgcason said:
Fixed that for you.



Everything is measured in terms of money nowadays. It's worth it. I value ____. Insured for $xxxx... Life is about experiences, not databits representing numbers sitting in a bank account somewhere.
Click to expand...

No argument there; but I do have to eat, and $400 is a big bite out of my budget.

One of these days in the not too distant future, those planes will all be rotting away in museums never to see outside, much less the sky, again. No amount of money would let you experience what one of those are like in flight at that point.

I can't afford to ride in one of those.
I'd do it anyway. Line a B-17, B29 and a P-51 up and I'd ride in all three on the same day.
I just hope I can arrange the opportunity while I can.
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I am happy to pay the $20 I can afford to support the cause. But unless I can log the time, the value of that experience isn't there for me.

Now that I think about it, $400 is about what it takes to get a medical and do a checkout in a ragged out beer can 172.
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Wow. My last medical was $75, and an hour checkout at Wings would run just over $125. That's in a rather new 172SP, with GPS. I guess YMMV, huh?
 
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