4 minutes of pure pain (student pilot gets every radio call wrong)

Rigged4Flight

Rigged4Flight

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ATC recording. Kudos if you can make it through all 4:19 minutes of the recording. I almost bailed a couple of times out of embarrassment for the student pilot. :redface:


Seems like he wasn't familiar with the airport and has horrible listening skills. I suck at the radios. But I compensate for it by writing down everything that the tower tells me. I feel for this guy, though. Holy cow that had to be a rough day. :lol:
 
Poor guy, danger to himself and everyone around him.
 
Couldnt get through it.... I kept hoping he would pull the student pilot on my first solo card....Felt bad for both of them. :sad:
 
I feel ATC admonishing the pilot is probably not going to enhance safety particularly when he is still in the air.
It is my observation that some people’s skills deteriorate and their situational awareness narrows under harsh criticism of their performance.
A simple correction for each error would have saved air time and achieved the same result.
A visit to the tower would have probably been a more effective learning tool.
ATC instructions for nonstandard entry to the pattern may be confusing for someone used to uncontrolled fields.
As a student pilot I found value in announcing I was a student pilot and unfamiliar. Usually ATC slowed down and gave simpler instructions.
 
Yow.

All my training was based at a towered airport so I was used to non-standard pattern entries early. My CFI always made me brief out loud what I would expect for a pattern entry based on rwy in use and current position. It didn't always happen, but when it didn't happen it triggered my Spidey sense. Occasionally it was a mistake that was easily fixed. This guy really got crossed up.

Now, I HAVE been goofed up on taxi instructions - like the time I dropped my taxi diagram on the floor when I landed at an unfamiliar airport. But a quick "request progressive" fixed that. Even progressive instructions wouldn't have helped here. It sounds like he got caught looking at signs, and then his brain misinterpreted the instructions from the controller to match what he was looking at.
 
I agree nothing good came from the Tower getting so angry.. The objective here is to have safe traffic flow, right? He should have corrected him and did everything he could to help him understand he was wrong..
 
Vance Breese said:
I feel ATC admonishing the pilot is probably not going to enhance safety particularly when he is still in the air.
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Ditto.

Any time I'm training someone and I need them to get it right, I do everything I can to get them to a calm mental state. Questions like "I told you to do X, why are you doing Y?" aren't productive, and will shut down more mental processes than they will help. A better way would be "You are doing Y, turn left immediately to heading ### for X."

And as was said, it's probably a good thing to announce right up front, or at least when you realize you're not on top of your mental game, that there is a student pilot flying the aircraft.
 
I would have suggested to the controller that he leave the guy alone and let him make his landing as soon as it was apparent that he was having trouble. I would have then suggested giving him as progressive a taxi as possible.

Dressing someone down while they're in the air should be a massive no no. It does nothing to enhance safety.
 
That guy was SOO far behind on the radio it wasn't even funny. Ether he's the type that just goes blank when they get nervous, or he should ask his CFI for a refund.
 
We've had this one on here before. I don't agree with the tone of the controller's voice but would you rather hear him baby the pilot along and then at the end say "47V, possible pilot deviation, advise you call tower xxx-xxxx after shutdown" ? Perhaps the FSDO needs to get involved?

The pilot needs to know the importance of his actions under ATC control and how they affect others. If other aircraft were in the pattern this pilot could have created a hazardous situation.

Telling the tower he was a student, if indeed that was the case could have made things smoother as well.
 
I agree that the controller didn't handle the situation with as much tact as he should have. While the pilot could have declared himself as a "student", I think it was probably apparent to the controller that the pilot was a student or at the very least, a pilot novice to towered operations. Once he established that the pilot was confused/disoriented, a simple command of "turn to XXX heading" would have probably shortened the confrontation. The ground taxi should have been progressive, and a phone number given for the pilot to call once he had parked so that they could talk about the confusion in a more direct manner than over the airwaves. Chastising someone over the radio while they are in a critical phase of flight isn't likely to end up well, regardless of the personality type.
 
As a low time student and early in my solo work I had flown to a near towered field to practice some landings. I made a couple of mistakes and lost track of where I was. I was told to enter a downwind for 28, but I was low and too far east to see the airport. Well, you know what happened next, I blew right past the extended centerline for 28 heading south. Controller asked me my heading....I said something like 190, he asked me why I had not turned on the downwind, I confessed...student pilot and I don't have the airport in sight. He very calmly gave me vectors, first to get out of the way, then established me on a very long downwind. Truth was, I was so new to flying, I didn't recognize the airport, I actually had it in sight the whole time, I just didn't realize it. The guy was good, very polite, but professional. We had a great time after that while I worked on landings, he had me do all kinds of stuff that would help me later. Did 360's for spacing, s-turns, extended downwinds etc. He really showed me a lot of stuff, of course it wasn't just for the fun of it, there was traffic, I think he just was helping me understand all the tools that I had available. I will never forget that flight.
 
mikeinbama said:
As a low time student and early in my solo work I had flown to a near towered field to practice some landings. I made a couple of mistakes and lost track of where I was. I was told to enter a downwind for 28, but I was low and too far east to see the airport. Well, you know what happened next, I blew right past the extended centerline for 28 heading south. Controller asked me my heading....I said something like 190, he asked me why I had not turned on the downwind, I confessed...student pilot and I don't have the airport in sight. He very calmly gave me vectors, first to get out of the way, then established me on a very long downwind. Truth was, I was so new to flying, I didn't recognize the airport, I actually had it in sight the whole time, I just didn't realize it. The guy was good, very polite, but professional. We had a great time after that while I worked on landings, he had me do all kinds of stuff that would help me later. Did 360's for spacing, s-turns, extended downwinds etc. He really showed me a lot of stuff, of course it wasn't just for the fun of it, there was traffic, I think he just was helping me understand all the tools that I had available. I will never forget that flight.
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That's a positive experience. And that's a controller that really helped other controllers down the line.
 
And that's one reason why while flying outside any airport traffic areas I always turn my radio off, so I don't have to listen to amateurs mucking up the freq.
 
I dunno about youse guys, and this might sound a bit racist, but its all coming from a safety pov . . . .

Here in SoCal we have lots of foreign asian students. Most of them have no idea what to do or say - if I'm getting close to destination I must say: "bugsmasher 19D descend to blahg blah blah" even if the call is to see if you have the ATIS.

Went flying Sat am and needed to get a word in edgewise cause I was gonna descend and he told me to tell - not to not do it - just to tell him. Yet, getting in the way was an asian 'sounding' pilot with . . .

ASP: "cessna 19d, take off from van nuys for corridor"

ATC: Cessna 19d state position."

ASP: "Cessna 9D for corridor, climbing 3000."

ATC: Cess 19d state present position.

ASP: "Cessna, we wish corridor."

ATC: Cessna 19D I need to know your present position

ASP: "Cessna 19 delta, coming up on corridor, we have atis charrie rong beach"

ATC: Cessna 19D - tell me where you are, what is present position relative to a landmark"

ASP: "Cessna 19 delta coming up on Westwood."

ATC: Cessna 19D, thank you, do you have the Santa Monica ATIS?"

ASP: "Cessna 19 Delta santa monica in sight."

And on and on and on it went. . . . . I wished he was a much faster airplane - but anyway - I needed to start my descent now - so I simply started the descent midway in that painful attempt at communication and when I was 200' beneath by cruise altitude I pressed my IDENT button.

I then heard: "Break, 90 Papa, VFR descent approved contain point mugu on 24.7." To which I replied '90P 24.7, good ruck"

I heard laughing on freq before I changed the freq . . .
 
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comanchepilot said:
I dunno about youse guys, and this might sound a bit racist, but its all coming from a safety pov . . . .

Here in SoCal we have lots of foreign asian students. Most of them have no idea what to do or say - if I'm getting close to destination I must say: "bugsmasher 19D descend to blahg blah blah" even if the call is to see if you have the ATIS.

Went flying Sat am and needed to get a word in edgewise cause I was gonna descend and he told me to tell - not to not do it - just to tell him. Yet, getting in the way was an asian 'sounding' pilot with . . .

ASP: "cessna 19d, take off from van nuys for corridor"

ATC: Cessna 19d state position."

ASP: "Cessna 9D for corridor, climbing 3000."

ATC: Cess 19d state present position.

ASP: "Cessna, we wish corridor."

ATC: Cessna 19D I need to know your present position

ASP: "Cessna 19 delta, coming up on corridor, we have atis charrie rong beach"

ATC: Cessna 19D - tell me where you are, what is present position relative to a landmark"

ASP: "Cessna 19 delta coming up on Westwood."

ATC: Cessna 19D, thank you, do you have the Santa Monica ATIS?"

ASP: "Cessna 19 Delta santa monica in sight."

And on and on and on it went. . . . . I wished he was a much faster airplane - but anyway - I needed to start my descent now - so I simply started the descent midway in that painful attempt at communication and when I was 200' beneath by cruise altitude I pressed my IDENT button.

I then heard: "Break, 90 Papa, VFR descent approved contain point magu on 24.7." To which I replied '90P 24.7, good ruck"

I heard laughing on freq before I changed the freq . . .
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Agree 1000%

And it ain't racist, I could care less what color you are, if you can't read, write, speak and understand English, you have ZERO business in the sky.
 
comanchepilot said:
I dunno about youse guys, and this might sound a bit racist, but its all coming from a safety pov . . . .

Here in SoCal we have lots of foreign asian students. Most of them have no idea what to do or say - if I'm getting close to destination I must say: "bugsmasher 19D descend to blahg blah blah" even if the call is to see if you have the ATIS.

Went flying Sat am and needed to get a word in edgewise cause I was gonna descend and he told me to tell - not to not do it - just to tell him. Yet, getting in the way was an asian 'sounding' pilot with . . .

ASP: "cessna 19d, take off from van nuys for corridor"

ATC: Cessna 19d state position."

ASP: "Cessna 9D for corridor, climbing 3000."

ATC: Cess 19d state present position.

ASP: "Cessna, we wish corridor."

ATC: Cessna 19D I need to know your present position

ASP: "Cessna 19 delta, coming up on corridor, we have atis charrie rong beach"

ATC: Cessna 19D - tell me where you are, what is present position relative to a landmark"

ASP: "Cessna 19 delta coming up on Westwood."

ATC: Cessna 19D, thank you, do you have the Santa Monica ATIS?"

ASP: "Cessna 19 Delta santa monica in sight."

And on and on and on it went. . . . . I wished he was a much faster airplane - but anyway - I needed to start my descent now - so I simply started the descent midway in that painful attempt at communication and when I was 200' beneath by cruise altitude I pressed my IDENT button.

I then heard: "Break, 90 Papa, VFR descent approved contain point magu on 24.7." To which I replied '90P 24.7, good ruck"

I heard laughing on freq before I changed the freq . . .
Click to expand...

I hear you. I fly out of KTOA, spend lots of time in the practice area. There's one pilot out there that has such a heavy accent (we all argue whether it's French or Spanish) that NO ONE can understand him............:dunno:
 
I'll stand up for tower guy. I don't think he yelled at the guy, he simply expressed some admonishment in his tone. He was civil while letting it be known the pilot was not working well within the system.

I kept thinking I'd have told this lost pilot to clear the runway and park. Then I'd call the FBO and get an escort out there to guide him to the ramp. A little humiliation as well as paying for .3 or .4 Hobbs time waiting might do the trick.
 
This is painful to listen. But I would place the blame on the CFI. There is no way the student demonstrated proficiency to be signed off solo to this airport.
 
Captain said:
I'll stand up for tower guy. I don't think he yelled at the guy, he simply expressed some admonishment in his tone. He was civil while letting it be known the pilot was not working well within the system.
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Maybe. But how is a flustered pilot supposed to respond to "NXXX, what are you doing?! I told you to turn left. Why did you turn right?" That's only going to lead to a lengthy conversation and further exasperation.
 
I'd think that eventually, the time comes where the controller just needs to say something like, "Listen to me, and don't say anything --- turn left until I tell you to stop....stop...land on that rwy right in front of you."
 
Old Fart said:
I hear you. I fly out of KTOA, spend lots of time in the practice area. There's one pilot out there that has such a heavy accent (we all argue whether it's French or Spanish) that NO ONE can understand him............:dunno:
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Inspector Clouseau!
 
Matthew said:
I'd think that eventually, the time comes where the controller just needs to say something like, "Listen to me, and don't say anything --- turn left until I tell you to stop....stop...land on that rwy right in front of you."
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I've heard controllers do just this for people, just like telling them when to turn base and what not. The controller is in a bad mood for some reason and whenever I hear people lose their cool I assume something is going on outside of this. Maybe he got passed for a promotion, or had to work a shift he didn't want, or his wife left him for the student pilot. Who knows.
 
jordane93 said:
The only one to blame is his instructor. Clearly this student wasn't ready to solo
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Like the poor schmuck at Castle who slammed his 152 hard enough on the pavement to set off the ELT, with dozens of CAP members on an exercise nearby?

I felt real sorry for that guy. I think we could only have embarrassed him more if we had brought a brass band along. Of course, I felt even sorrier for that poor 152. It takes a hard hit to do that.
 
OkieAviator said:
I've heard controllers do just this for people, just like telling them when to turn base and what not. The controller is in a bad mood for some reason and whenever I hear people lose their cool I assume something is going on outside of this. Maybe he got passed for a promotion, or had to work a shift he didn't want, or his wife left him for the student pilot. Who knows.
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That would certainly do it.....:yikes:.........:(
 
I always thought they played it up for TV, but when I hit play I was expecting to hear Ariel Tweto's voice on there.
 
Sounds like a CFI and student that forgot there is life outside a standard 3-legged traffic pattern. I blame the CFI more than anything. This guy clearly had no clue you could land a plane without flying a downwind leg. He was not ready for his X-C solo.
 
Pedals2Paddles said:
Sounds like a CFI and student that forgot there is life outside a standard 3-legged traffic pattern. I blame the CFI more than anything. This guy clearly had no clue you could land a plane without flying a downwind leg. He was not ready for his X-C solo.
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X2........:thumbsup:
 
Matthew said:
Yow.

All my training was based at a towered airport so I was used to non-standard pattern entries early. My CFI always made me brief out loud what I would expect for a pattern entry based on rwy in use and current position. It didn't always happen, but when it didn't happen it triggered my Spidey sense. Occasionally it was a mistake that was easily fixed. This guy really got crossed up.

Now, I HAVE been goofed up on taxi instructions - like the time I dropped my taxi diagram on the floor when I landed at an unfamiliar airport. But a quick "request progressive" fixed that. Even progressive instructions wouldn't have helped here. It sounds like he got caught looking at signs, and then his brain misinterpreted the instructions from the controller to match what he was looking at.
Click to expand...
"Black square? You're there." Thanks for that memory aid, Martha!
 
steingar said:
I would have suggested to the controller that he leave the guy alone and let him make his landing as soon as it was apparent that he was having trouble. I would have then suggested giving him as progressive a taxi as possible.

Dressing someone down while they're in the air should be a massive no no. It does nothing to enhance safety.
Click to expand...

Agreed 100%.
 
nddons said:
"Black square? You're there." Thanks for that memory aid, Martha!
Click to expand...

Yeah. In my case I landed on one rwy, tower wanted me to taxi on the intersecting rwy to a taxiway. I had come up on the intersection quickly and didn't have a good chance to get my bearings. Rather than sit and unconfuse myself and find my taxi diagram where it had fallen under my seat, it was just way easier to get progressive.
 
comanchepilot said:
I dunno about youse guys, and this might sound a bit racist, but its all coming from a safety pov . . . .

Here in SoCal we have lots of foreign asian students. Most of them have no idea what to do or say - if I'm getting close to destination I must say: "bugsmasher 19D descend to blahg blah blah" even if the call is to see if you have the ATIS.


I heard laughing on freq before I changed the freq . . .
Click to expand...

The sad thing is, that there will be a school somewhere who is happy to take their money and send them for the practical test, that is conducted by a DPE who gets enough business from said school to lower the standards of "english proficient".
 
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