3rd class medical questions

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I'm interested in PP certificate. I'm concerned about the medical. I had an accident about 10 years ago and subsequently had 7 back surgeries over about the next 5-7 years. The entire time I have been on strong pain medication, Morphine Sulfate Extended release (pill form) 1x, and Hydrocodone apap 4x10-325 daily. I was with the same pain management doctor all the way and he apart of the surgeon practice that did some of the operations (I had to have professor at the medical college do a few new procedure's that had just come out at the time). I've really turned around over the past 3-4 years.. I haven't had any more surgery and all the time feeling better. I'm have already started tapering off of the medication and expect to be off in the next month or so.

My question is simply, what can I expect as far as the medical goes. What should I be concerned about..
 
You can't fly if you're taking or under the influence of a morphine or opiate. You can't fly if you're addicted to a morphine or opiate. That's pretty straightforward. Here's a good summary of the rest of the requirements for a 3rd class medical certificate:

http://flighttraining.aopa.org/students/presolo/special/medical.html

Whatever you do, don't just go fill out the paperwork and take the exam. The basic rule, for at least the first time, is to never do the paperwork unless you know you will pass. It's far easier to get your ducks in a row before you are denied or deferred than after. Call the local flight schools and find an examiner that is known to be willing to work with you. You'll probably want a consultation and/or a preliminary exam to see if you can qualify.

Dr. Chien is also a great source for advice. http://www.aeromedicaldoc.com/

If you are off drugs, haven't been denied or deferred for a medical certificate, and can honestly self-certify yourself as fit to fly, you can get a sport pilot certificate without a medical, as long as you have a valid drivers license.
 
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By the time I get ready for the medical I won't be taking it anymore. Realistically other than the past surgeries I don't have any other problems nor take any medications. Is the FAA going to care about medications that I've taken in the past?
 
You can take a look at the FAA form 8500 online to see the questions. It only asks about current medications. The examiner has some discretion to ask you about your past conditions and medications, so I'd still suggest a consultation with him/her before you do the paperwork or invest a lot of time and money into flying.
 
I sent an email to the Bruce guy.. I want to be sure I do this correctly.
 
It only asks about current medications but there are a lot of "Have you ever..." questions in section 18. In addition, you didn't get these pills without a prescription (one would hope) and if you saw a doctor in the past three years, that itself would need to be reported (and the resulting treatment).
 
I understand.. I am under the care of a physician.. There are a lot of treatments that require pain medication.. Just about every major surgery and most minor ones out there requires pain medication. It's really not that different than that in reality, they are apart of our quality of life to heal. They are apart of treatments everyday, and if it hadn't been for them I would have led a miserable life during a string of very painful surgeries. When your bones and muscles are cut on, it hurts, there is no shame in that. If I needed them for another 10 years I wouldn't have any issue taking them. There's no residual effect from them, so from that standpoint they don't effect any judgment going forward, unlike say someone who sees a psychiatrists where you can never really be sure if they are still crazy or not..
 
Unregistered said:
I sent an email to the Bruce guy.. I want to be sure I do this correctly.
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This is the best way to get in the air. Dr. Bruce knows the regs inside and out, and his record for getting approvals on difficult medical applications is excellent. When you get in contact with him, do exactly what he says.

-Skip
 
Unregistered said:
By the time I get ready for the medical I won't be taking it anymore. Realistically other than the past surgeries I don't have any other problems nor take any medications. Is the FAA going to care about medications that I've taken in the past?
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Like others said, just because you are not *currently* taking the medications doesn't mean you aren't going to have problems. I wouldn't be surprised if they require a psych eval regarding dependency and a HIMS doctor to push you through the system + routine re-screening and limited medical valid time duration (special issuances)...if you don't do it right the 1st time, you will have an infinitely more difficult time...pay the consultation fees from a qualified HIMS doctor and see what you are up against before you make the call...you may want to wait for the Class III to be abolished for PPL or get a license that doesn't require a medical and wait and then add on later...the SPL license only requires self-certification and there are a number of light sports on the market that give the over 1320lb airplanes a run for their money (check out the lightning for example)
 
I'm waiting to hear back from doctor bruce. The good thing is that everything is well documented... every visit... every prescription. ..by all other accounts I am fit. I'm an upstanding member of the community, an established business man.. I've never had a run in with law enforcement for even Jay walking.. I'm sure there is common sense at work some where here in the process..
 
Actually not a lot of common sense, this is the government you are talking about.:rolleyes: Some cautions about Dr. Bruce. he is very good but, he requires absolute honesty. If he catches you in one sittle slip he will drop you. Also, he does not debate very well. He expects, no demands, that you accept what he says with no argument. Generally he is right. Good luck!
 
Unregistered said:
I'm waiting to hear back from doctor bruce. The good thing is that everything is well documented... every visit... every prescription. ..by all other accounts I am fit. I'm an upstanding member of the community, an established business man.. I've never had a run in with law enforcement for even Jay walking.. I'm sure there is common sense at work some where here in the process..
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There really is NO common sense involved.... And we're not kidding about that either.
 
Yup, common sense ain't common with OKC, and your documentation will help them more than you.
 
flyingron said:
It only asks about current medications but there are a lot of "Have you ever..." questions in section 18. In addition, you didn't get these pills without a prescription (one would hope) and if you saw a doctor in the past three years, that itself would need to be reported (and the resulting treatment).
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I looked at the form for the first time today. So, from what I see on it, as long as I am not taking any medications I check no on 17a.

I have to check yes on U and X..

In 19 I check yes and enter in for my regular doctor's visit for colds and what not.. and I put one for regular orthopedic checkup.

I don't see anything else on there that would lead to any discussions about anything other than that unless the AME started asking for specifics about the visits, and even then "regular checkup" should suffice.

Am I missing something here? I seems pretty straight forward..
 
Keep in mind that there's a question in that section about any surgery ever, so you're not going to avoid mentioning your back surgeries, and there will be questions arising therefrom.
 
Yep... I intend to list them, but they are ultimately common orthopedic procedures... There shouldn't be any red flags there.. Sounds like it might boil down to the conversation.. If nothing comes up then I'd be clear, otherwise I'd have to explain.. Either way at that point I'd have nothing to hide, but one path requires more explanations. Like anything with the government, talking can get you in trouble.. Seems like it'd be best to just say nothing or as little as possible, and answer as vaguely as possible..
 
Unregistered said:
I'm waiting to hear back from doctor bruce.
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Bruce's web site email is not very reliable. I'd suggest either using one of the other contact methods on that site or going on the AOPA Forums. But one thing I'm absolutely sure he will tell you is that before you apply, you will have to be able to document that you have been completely off all the meds for at least 90 days.
 
Unregistered said:
Yep... I intend to list them, but they are ultimately common orthopedic procedures... There shouldn't be any red flags there.. Sounds like it might boil down to the conversation.. If nothing comes up then I'd be clear, otherwise I'd have to explain.. Either way at that point I'd have nothing to hide, but one path requires more explanations. Like anything with the government, talking can get you in trouble.. Seems like it'd be best to just say nothing or as little as possible, and answer as vaguely as possible..
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That's what I'd do, but you need to know "worst case scenario" going in. Talk to a knowledgable dr and AME first prior to the exam.
 
What I think I might do is find an AME in my area and go get a physical first from him.. Tell him I'm interested in 3rd class and ask him if he sees any issue after I show him a hand written 8500.. If he says I'm good to go, then come back the next day and do the 3rd class...
 
Ron Levy said:
Bruce's web site email is not very reliable. I'd suggest either using one of the other contact methods on that site or going on the AOPA Forums. But one thing I'm absolutely sure he will tell you is that before you apply, you will have to be able to document that you have been completely off all the meds for at least 90 days.
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Got a cite for that? I think we discussed taking hydrocodone for dental procedures and the time grounded wasn't anything like 90 days.
 
It wouldn't bother me to be off 90 days, or 6 months if needed.. I'm not in any hurry.. but as greek says, it I didn't see anything on the form that asked for time frames other than 3 years to see a doctor..
 
Unregistered said:
What I think I might do is find an AME in my area and go get a physical first from him.. Tell him I'm interested in 3rd class and ask him if he sees any issue after I show him a hand written 8500.. If he says I'm good to go, then come back the next day and do the 3rd class...
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:mad2:

You need to make it clear in advance this will NOT be an FAA Medical Exam. There are some AME that will not have a non-FAA discussion with you.

I ran into one a couple years ago. Only after I provided the online 8500 magic number was he willing to continue the exam. At the end of the exam, he informed me I should not have listed something that I thought was required. Had we been able to have the discussion in advance, as you are describing, I would have been happier. Needless to say, I won't be visiting that AME again.

The only saving grace was that I walked in with all the documentation as described by Dr. Bruce. I will have to report that something from now on, it's only an additional test every 2 years, but it's still annoying that I could have avoided it.

Repeat - Do not visit an AME until after you have discussed everything with Dr. Bruce first.
 
Old Geek said:
Got a cite for that? I think we discussed taking hydrocodone for dental procedures and the time grounded wasn't anything like 90 days.
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Yes -- the OP's original post:
Unregistered said:
I'm interested in PP certificate. I'm concerned about the medical. I had an accident about 10 years ago and subsequently had 7 back surgeries over about the next 5-7 years. The entire time I have been on strong pain medication, Morphine Sulfate Extended release (pill form) 1x, and Hydrocodone apap 4x10-325 daily.
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Those are opiates, and 5-7 years is a lot longer than 90 days. I'm telling you what Bruce is going to tell him -- ask Bruce if you don't believe me (that being my original advice). He's going to have to be off all pain meds for at least 90 days with documentation to prove it before he can even think about a Third Class medical.

Also realize the Bruce has a pretty strong spam filter on his web site email system, so that's not the best way for new people to contact him.
 
Unregistered said:
It wouldn't bother me to be off 90 days, or 6 months if needed.. I'm not in any hurry.. but as greek says, it I didn't see anything on the form that asked for time frames other than 3 years to see a doctor..
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Then read the form again carefully, especially the part about "Have you ever..."
 
Ron Levy said:
I suggest you read the form more carefully -- there are in fact 25 yes/no boxes where any instance ever requires a "yes" answer.
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I guess the point is over my head.. Which boxes am I not answering yes to then other than the surgeries, the hospital admission and the last doctor visits?
 
Unregistered said:
I guess the point is over my head.. Which boxes am I not answering yes to then other than the surgeries, the hospital admission and the last doctor visits?
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I have no idea since I don't know your complete medical history, and I really don't want to, either. But those are not the only two questions which are of the "have you ever" genre.

Good luck.
 
Unregistered said:
I guess the point is over my head.. Which boxes am I not answering yes to then other than the surgeries, the hospital admission and the last doctor visits?
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The point here is that the advice you have been offered is sound. You are dealing with a bureaucracy that is inflexible and unforgiving and any small mistake that to you may seem inconsequential can forever cause you expense, time, and even permanent denial of a medical. The advice to consult someone such as Dr. Bruce Chien BEFORE you do ANYTHING with the FAA AME is HIGHLY RECOMMENDED.
 
Unregistered said:
I guess the point is over my head.. Which boxes am I not answering yes to then other than the surgeries, the hospital admission and the last doctor visits?
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No one is trying to argue with you. It's just that the procedure of taking the exam and receiving the medical certificate has tripped up many a well meaning person that simply didn't understand the nuances and pitfalls inherent in the system.

Rather than continuing to receive advice from internet forum members that may or may not be correct I suggest, as others have, that you contact Dr. Chein. Answer all his questions with complete and well thought out responses. Do not omit anything about your medical history. Listen carefully to his assessment and follow his advice.

This will prevent you from making an error that could quite literally end your chances of being a pilot. It all sounds silly and overly dramatic, but it's that important.

Best of luck in your endeavour.
 
Buddy - you really need to email Dr. Chien and talk with him. Nobody here can help you. You might not have an issue, especially if you've just recently developed symptoms.

But beyond that - you're asking about a first class medical and you apparently can't show the integrity to admit to yourself there might be a problem. If that's the case, I'm not sure you should be flying an ultralight, let alone anything in the commercial realm.

Just talk with Dr. Bruce. That is your solution.
 
bflynn said:
Buddy - you really need to email Dr. Chien and talk with him. Nobody here can help you. You might not have an issue, especially if you've just recently developed symptoms.

But beyond that - you're asking about a first class medical and you apparently can't show the integrity to admit to yourself there might be a problem. If that's the case, I'm not sure you should be flying an ultralight, let alone anything in the commercial realm.

Just talk with Dr. Bruce. That is your solution.
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Oh boy.. I guess you didn't read any thing in this thread
 
3393RP said:
No one is trying to argue with you. It's just that the procedure of taking the exam and receiving the medical certificate has tripped up many a well meaning person that simply didn't understand the nuances and pitfalls inherent in the system.

Rather than continuing to receive advice from internet forum members that may or may not be correct I suggest, as others have, that you contact Dr. Chein. Answer all his questions with complete and well thought out responses. Do not omit anything about your medical history. Listen carefully to his assessment and follow his advice.

This will prevent you from making an error that could quite literally end your chances of being a pilot. It all sounds silly and overly dramatic, but it's that important.

Best of luck in your endeavour.
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Old February 14th, 2015, 12:12 PM Posted in reply to Old Geek's post "Re: 3rd class medical questions" #5
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Posts: n/a Re: 3rd class medical questions

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I sent an email to the Bruce guy.. I want to be sure I do this correctly.
 
Unregistered said:
I sent an email to the Bruce guy.. I want to be sure I do this correctly.
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Good. But as of my earlier post, Bruce had not received it, probably due to it being caught in his very tight spam filter. Once again, I suggest trying either the AOPA Forums or one of the other means suggested by his web site. Alternatively, you can email me and I'll forward it to Bruce -- I'm a "trusted sender" in his system.
 
18.x. "Other disability, illness, or surgery."

Pretty catch all.
 
If you lie about ANY little thing, EVER, even through omission. You will receive a rather unpleasant visit from the FAA medical revocation and database cross reference enforcement branch. They can be identified by their tall black boots with a high shine, their starched black uniforms, and a red caduceus arm band with a zero tolerance flash. They are a cold, vicious, bunch who wall paper their offices with the medicals of former pilots who are now living in eternal shame and working the counter in some San Juan take out joint.:)

Lots of drama on these threads. Speak with a good AME as I'm sure you will. Best of luck to the OP.
 
Ron Levy said:
Good. But as of my earlier post, Bruce had not received it, probably due to it being caught in his very tight spam filter. Once again, I suggest trying either the AOPA Forums or one of the other means suggested by his web site. Alternatively, you can email me and I'll forward it to Bruce -- I'm a "trusted sender" in his system.
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What is his email.. I went to his link on his webpage and sent in the information there.. I didn't know he had a direct email? I'll send there if you can PM it to me.
 
Alexb2000 said:
If you lie about ANY little thing, EVER, even through omission. You will receive a rather unpleasant visit from the FAA medical revocation and database cross reference enforcement branch. They can be identified by their tall black boots with a high shine, their starched black uniforms, and a red caduceus arm band with a zero tolerance flash. They are a cold, vicious, bunch who wall paper their offices with the medicals of former pilots who are now living in eternal shame and working the counter in some San Juan take out joint.:)

Lots of drama on these threads. Speak with a good AME as I'm sure you will. Best of luck to the OP.
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Yep, exactly why I want to get as much advice as I can and then steer the right course.. Dr bruce seems like my best bet.. Just trying to get in touch with him.
 
Unregistered said:
Oh boy.. I guess you didn't read any thing in this thread
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No, I think I got this mixed up with the other unregistered user asking a very similar question. The other person had a first class medical and was asking about a non report question.

But the advice is the same - go talk to an AME for a consult. Dr Chien is excellent, so are others.

Sorry for the mix up, but you both have the same name.
 
bflynn said:
No, I think I got this mixed up with the other unregistered user asking a very similar question. The other person had a first class medical and was asking about a non report question.

But the advice is the same - go talk to an AME for a consult. Dr Chien is excellent, so are others.

Sorry for the mix up, but you both have the same name.
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How strange both our mothers named us, Unregistered... What a strange coincidence..
 
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