3 things I wish bikers would remember

[Trapper John]

You really don't think anyone here would intentionally take out a lane-splitter, do you?

I've always considered lane-splitting semi-suicidal at best, and wouldn't do it myself, but do whatever you think you can get away with.

Speaking of little Timmy though, what happens when you zip by and a kid sticks their arm out the window? Tough luck for the kid?

 

[Unbeliever]

You really don't think anyone here would intentionally take out a lane-splitter, do you?

As a motorcycle rider myself, yes. I've seen it, or at least people try. Several times I was the intended target. Obviously, nobody has succeeded. It ain't easy.

Speaking of little Timmy though, what happens when you zip by and a kid sticks their arm out the window? Tough luck for the kid?

Nope. The arm isn't long enough. From laneshare.org:

The standard lane width is 12 feet while a car width is about 6.5 feet and a semi is 8 feet wide at a motorcycle‘s height. This leaves a theoretical net space of 4-5.5 feet between vehicles.

I've actually given high-fives to kids as I pass by. They're pretty much the only ones that see us coming. If they're on my left (clutch hand) and they reach out to me, and I'll slow and reach out and tap hand to hand. Most get a kick out of it. Though I probably shouldn't as it encourages the behavior.

From Wikipedia, these are the other countries that allow splitting. What do they know that we don't?

• Austria
• Belgium
• Brazil
• Croatia
• Cyprus
• Estonia
• France
• Greece
• Italy
• Japan
• Netherlands (jurisprudence assigns responsibility in case of accidents to the car driver [60])
• Norway
• Oman
• Poland [61]
• Portugal
• Qatar
• Spain
• South Africa
• Sweden
• Turkey
• U.A.E.
• United Kingdom[62]

Actually, I have a theory, and it's related to the US mindset of "If I have to wait in line, everybody else is going to wait behind me."

--Carlos V.

 

[Pi1otguy]

That makes you the exception. My experience has been that many drivers either don't see motor cycles (even with high beam + a driving light) or don't care when they turn or pull out in front of them.

Depends. A lot of drivers don't see other cars either but here's the difference. I can and have effectively dodged other cars & debris. A car is rarely 100% in my blind spots due to their length and generally don't make moves I can't counter. I can see a speeding car behind me in time to make room as courtesy. OTOH, a bike weaving between traffic isn't always visible in time for me to clear out as bikes can be completely masked by a nearby car or truck during my scans.

And to be honest, I often find that daytime headlights (cars or bikes) mask the cars directly behind, obscures the type of vehicle (esp bikes with dual lights), & takes that much longer to determine range and speed at long distances. But that's probably just me.

BTW, I got nothing against bikers. Just white line & speed safely. I just foolishly assume a rider hitting anything (including mirrors or road debris) leads to balance issues and a messy dismount. I just don't want to wash you off the side of my car and fill out a bunch of paperwork. If I wanted to fill out that much paperwork, I'd fly and use the "e" word. :wink2:

 

[Everskyward]

I just foolishly assume a rider hitting anything (including mirrors or road debris) leads to balance issues and a messy dismount.

I thought this was interesting. I guess hitting mirrors isn't that uncommon.

I posted a poll on the Bay Area Riders Forum asking how many people had hit car mirrors while lane splitting (or "lane sharing" as some of the motorcycle rights-sensitive explained to me). As of 3/6/2006, 163 riders have responded:

• 36% have never hit any mirrors
• 38% have hit 1 or 2 mirrors
• 17% have hit 3 to 10 mirrors
• 9% have hit 10 or more mirrors

A similar poll was also posted (not by me) on the SoCalSVRiders forum with somewhat similar results from 86 respondents:

• 40% have never hit any mirrors
• 29% have hit 1 or 2 mirrors
• 23% have hit 3 to 10 mirrors
• 9% have hit 10 or more mirrors

http://www.startriding.com/articles/2006/february/lane_spliltting.htm

Also, the US DOT Fatality Analysis Reporting System database shows that fatalities from rear end collisions into motorcycles are 30% lower in California than in Florida or Texas, states with similar riding seasons and populations but which do not lane split.

http://www.whybike.com/blog/index.php?p=147

But what about the statistics comparing accidents due to lane splitting? Wait, the other 49 states don't allow it. Interesting to me that California stands alone, and not in the way you would think.

 

[Unbeliever]

But what about the statistics comparing accidents due to lane splitting? Wait, the other 49 states don't allow it. Interesting to me that California stands alone, and not in the way you would think.

From the source I quoted before:

Here are the total fatality rates for these three largest states for multi-vehicle front-impact accidents of motorcycles:

California: 49.4 fatalities/billion miles ridden
Florida: 48.7 fatalities/billion miles ridden
Texas: 51.5 fatalities/billion miles ridden

So it looks like Californian bikers are fatally crashing into vehicles in front of them at the same rate as other states, but are not being rear-ended at the same rate. This leads me to believe that sharing lanes has a positive impact on preventing rear-end motorcycle fatalities, and a negligible effect on total fatalities.

 

[Pi1otguy]

To be fair, I the fatalities/billion miles is a bit misleading. I'll accept that less riders died per mile, but for some of us, the living with the aftermath of a bad accident is just as bad.

Without data to point to, isn't it possible that the fatalities are lower, but accidents with life long injuries are up?

 

[Bob Noel]

From the source I quoted before:

Quote: Here are the total fatality rates for these three largest states for multi-vehicle front-impact accidents of motorcycles:

California: 49.4 fatalities/billion miles ridden
Florida: 48.7 fatalities/billion miles ridden
Texas: 51.5 fatalities/billion miles ridden

So it looks like Californian bikers are fatally crashing into vehicles in front of them at the same rate as other states, but are not being rear-ended at the same rate. This leads me to believe that sharing lanes has a positive impact on preventing rear-end motorcycle fatalities, and a negligible effect on total fatalities. "

Note that California has a helmet law and TX and FL don't require
those over 21 to wear helmets. So, it might be a little more complicated
than you might at first think.

 

[Ghery]

Don't be surprised why I'm not real motivated to save your ass the next time it gets kicked in a bar.

I doubt that Bruce will be in a bar where he'll need your help.

Another thing for you riders to consider while doing dumb things (and sometimes when you're completely innocent) - at my high school class 40th reunion this weekend my wife and I were talking to a classmate and his wife. The witnesses to the accident that nearly killed us 36 years ago. A guy ran a stop sign at about 30 mph and hit our motorcycle broadside. Jim said he still has visions of us flying through the air after being hit. Keep in mind that the person traumatized by the accident might not even be a participant.

White line? Legal or not, if I were still riding, no way.

 

[Henning]

But what about the statistics comparing accidents due to lane splitting? Wait, the other 49 states don't allow it. Interesting to me that California stands alone, and not in the way you would think.

When done properly, there is no doubt that lane splitting is a safety bonus.

 

[Henning]

No it's not. You take him out, he loses control, smacks another car or makes another car swerve and lose control, causing an N-car pileup. Congratulations, not only did you take out the idiot, you killed little Timmy too.

Why is physical confrontation the answer? If he's being an idiot, call the cops. I've done it to several other motorcyclists, some with good effect. I am also appalled at splitters who split when traffic is going highway speed, but the answer isn't to "take them out".

Last Thursday, in East Pasadena, I looked up and saw a couple of 172s doing formation flying practice over a congested area. (The Hastings Ranch Ralph's) They were practicing join-ups, and were really bad at it. They almost hit wingtips. This really happened.

Now how's this for an analogous situation:

"Man, those guys are idiots doing formation practice badly over a congested area. I should get one of those 1 Watt lasers and lase them. That will teach them a lesson and take them out of the gene pool."

Same type of reaction, same result, same potential for collateral damage. If you object, why? "Because its an airplane" isn't a satisfactory answer.

--Carlos V.

Please, when was the last time a motorcycle killed someone in a cage?

 

[Everskyward]

Note that California has a helmet law and TX and FL don't require
those over 21 to wear helmets. So, it might be a little more complicated
than you might at first think.

And your (meaning Unbeliever's) statistics still don't address accidents caused by lane splitting, just front and rear end collisions.

 

[Unbeliever]

Please, when was the last time a motorcycle killed someone in a cage?

Separate incident:
http://www.snopes.com/photos/accident/seemotorcycle.asp

But like that pic and Snopes incident, you're assuming the collision will cause the injury. The motorcycle doesn't have to collide to cause the injury. You've seen the average SoCal driver. How many will you think will lose control and/or hit another car from evading the motorcyclist you just knocked over?

Edit: I noticed you avoided the lasing the formation pilots question.

--Carlos V.

 

[tdager]

I could not imagine trying to lane split when I owned my FJR. The bags alone would make for a PITA to get through the cars.

 

[steingar]

When I lived in California I split lanes quite heavily. I am sorry it ticks off the cagers, but I am the rider, I decide what is and isn't safe, and I am the one who pays the price if I'm wrong. Complaining about stupid bikers is fruitless, since there is an even greater number of stupid cagers.

 

[gprellwitz]

When I lived in California I split lanes quite heavily. I am sorry it ticks off the cagers, but I am the rider, I decide what is and isn't safe, and I am the one who pays the price if I'm wrong. Complaining about stupid bikers is fruitless, since there is an even greater number of stupid cagers.

But from what I've been able to ascertain, those lane splitters who are clipping mirrors are not paying the price. It's the cagers whose vehicles are damaged that are paying the price.

 

[steingar]

But from what I've been able to ascertain, those lane splitters who are clipping mirrors are not paying the price. It's the cagers whose vehicles are damaged that are paying the price.

Wouldn't know, never clipped a mirror. Clipped a pedestrian once, but that's a whole other story.

Actually, if a bike has a collision with part of a car, the bike will sustain some damage, that's how collisions work. If it's a sportbike, that damage will likely be to one of the fairings, which are expensive to repair without specialized knowledge.

I ought to go clip some mirrors. Some idiotic cager knocked over my pristine sportbike in the garage, cost me money and scuffed up my stator but good. Revenge is sweet.

 

[Bob Noel]

I ought to go clip some mirrors. Some idiotic cager knocked over my pristine sportbike in the garage, cost me money and scuffed up my stator but good. Revenge is sweet.

Not all "cagers" are idiots. I was in a store once when a guy came
in to tell me he accidently knocked my bike over. He helped me pick
up the bike and gave me his insurance information. I never did contact
his insurance company, there was so little damage. It really did buff
out (ok, I used some filler and paint).

 

[steingar]

Not all "cagers" are idiots. I was in a store once when a guy came
in to tell me he accidently knocked my bike over. He helped me pick
up the bike and gave me his insurance information. I never did contact
his insurance company, there was so little damage. It really did buff
out (ok, I used some filler and paint).

Didn't mean to imply they were. I was just referring to the SOB who knocked over my formerly pristine bike.

 

[Gerhardt]

I've owned one bike or another since I was 8 years old. Started with a Sears mini bike and progressed to dirt bikes, then street bikes. As soon as I'd sell one, two weeks later I'd get the itch and would be "just looking" in the bike shops. Seldom did more than a year or so go by when I wasn't riding. When my kids were born I had a few close calls with animals and a couple of errant drivers so I sold my Softail.

A year and a half ago, my kids are a little older and I've got the itch again and the Harley dealer sells me the most beautiful bike I've ever seen. A couple of months later I'm heading out to dad's and crest a hill on a gravel road only to see that a farmer has the gate open across the road. The bike doesn't even start to slow down (I was going 45 mph). The ditch isn't an option so I know enough to hit it head-on and lift my leg so that it doesn't get pinned underneath. I emerge without a single scratch, but the bike isn't so lucky. The farmer's insurer replaces the bike and two months ago I'm headed to work when a car makes a left turn in front of me, then does the worst thing possible when he sees me - he stops, blocking both lanes. I ended up in someone's yard, but the bike was upright.

Two days later I'm behind a combine going around 20 mph and just as I'm passing him, I'm right beside him and he opts to make a left turn w/o even thinking of looking. I was 100% sure I was a dead man. I hit the throttle and was amazed to have survived. The bike was on craigslist that afternoon and I gave the first guy who called one helluva deal.

I love riding, it's an addiction like no other, but until my kids are on their own I'll settle for being envious of bikers.

 

[RogerT]

I've never been inclined to drive like an idiot on a bike .. but I sure see
a lot of it going on. I think you just have to pay attention and ride
defensively. Lane splitting wouldn't probably be something I'd be
comfortable doing.

Last week ... 9 days ... I rode the Harley from Lincoln to Miami on Sat Sunday and Monday morning .. picked up my girlfriend .. rode to Key West for a couple days .. then on Friday .. Sat .. and Sunday morning rode back to Lincoln. I rode thru KC ... Memphis .. Birmingham .. Montgomery .. Tallahassee .. Orlando ... Miami ... and on the way back Atlanta .. Chatanooga ... Nashville .. St Louis .. KC. I don't recall any instances of any cagers around me being stupid. Atlanta is always a traffic nightmare. I've
been driving in Miami long enough that I know my way around and don't
think much about that. I think it's more dangerous driving in Lincoln out
of all those places.

Not a bad week for an old geezer.


RT

 

[bbchien]

Don't be surprised why I'm not real motivated to save your ass the next time it gets kicked in a bar.

Ditto in the E.R.

Grow up. Stay outta my cage space. I stay outta yours and actually try to protect some of the riders. Amazing what a car can do on BEHALF of a rider.

 

[steingar]

Bikes are invisible to all cagers. That's the assumption every rider makes who's ridden any length of time and lived to tell the tale. On the other hand, bikes are far faster than cages, vastly more maneuverable, and can stop far more quickly. And biker really minding his or her six should be able to keep out of the way of even the most cognitively challenged cager.

Some of the stuff posted here just amazes me. Someone couldn't stop from 45 mph? My bike will do that in a couple feet, easily (believe me, I've done it). Had trouble passing farm machinery?

A bit more. I don't move from a red light until I see the way is clear (that is, all the traffic has come to a complete stop). I have watched too many cars blast through intersections. I always watch my six at a stop if no one is behind me, lots of bikers get clipped from the rear, me included. I use the enormous ability of my bike to keep myself in a cage-free environment, which I can do much of the time even in heavy traffic. I keep out of traps (cages in front, to the side, and behind) even if I have to thread the needle at close quarters (easier to give these vehicles close attention for a few seconds than maintain situational awareness for a few minutes). I don't lane split as much here both because it's illegal but more because cagers here react very unpredictably, being unfamiliar with the behavior. But I will in a pinch if I feel my safety is imperiled.

Again, sorry if these behaviors press anyone's buttons. But this is what I do to keep myself safe, and since I've been riding bikes continuously half my life without any harm more than a face-full of bug, I think I'm on to something.

 

[Trapper John]

Some of the stuff posted here just amazes me. Someone couldn't stop from 45 mph? My bike will do that in a couple feet, easily (believe me, I've done it). Had trouble passing farm machinery?

There's a big performance difference between a full-on sportbike and a Harley. That might explain why you never see anyone doing a stoppie on a Harley...

 

[Gerhardt]

Some of the stuff posted here just amazes me. Someone couldn't stop from 45 mph? My bike will do that in a couple feet, easily (believe me, I've done it). Had trouble passing farm machinery?

Your bike will stop within 2 feet going 45 mph on a gravel road? I have to call BS on that.

And my trouble wasn't in passing farm machinery, as the bike was having no trouble with that at all. It was when I was in the passing lane, next to the farmer, when he decided to make a left turn that posed the problem.

You're normally more even keeled, so the I'm-a-better-biker-than-you attitude surprises me.

 

[steingar]

Your bike will stop within 2 feet going 45 mph on a gravel road? I have to call BS on that.

And my trouble wasn't in passing farm machinery, as the bike was having no trouble with that at all. It was when I was in the passing lane, next to the farmer, when he decided to make a left turn that posed the problem.

You're normally more even keeled, so the I'm-a-better-biker-than-you attitude surprises me.

I am a bit incredulous with what you're presented. You couldn't see a gate opening across the road from two feet away? You didn't see the farmer getting ready to open the gate? On a straightaway? I don't mean to be arrogant, it is just that these are the sort of things one has to look for if one is going to ride.

If you didn't see it because you were on a blind curve, why were you going 45 mph? Way too fast if you can't see what's ahead of you.

I've had people try and turn into me from the adjacent lane on numerous occasions. I have to admit, it was a bit of an event on the little 400cc twin I started with, but has been a nonevent in every bike since.

I honestly don't think I'm a better biker than anyone. I do feel that whatever you were riding was robbed of performance to the point of being actively dangerous. You have no protection on a bike save performance. No airbags (except on some Goldwings ), no roll cage, no crumple zone. Just the ability to get out of the way. If the bike can't do that, you need one that does, and there are plenty that will.

 

[RogerT]

And my trouble wasn't in passing farm machinery, as the bike was having no trouble with that at all. It was when I was in the passing lane, next to the farmer, when he decided to make a left turn that posed the problem.

That's how Bruce Rossmeyer got killed last year over in Wyoming
on the way to Sturgis. Passed a pickup pulling a trailer and the
guy made a left turn.

 

[Gerhardt]

I am a bit incredulous with what you're presented. You couldn't see a gate opening across the road from two feet away? You didn't see the farmer getting ready to open the gate? On a straightaway? I don't mean to be arrogant,

You might take a good hard look, because that's how I'm interpreting it. And I don't understand your pointed jabs.

First you didn't see the part about it being on gravel (and claimed that you can stop a bike in 2 feet on a gravel road), and next you missed the part about me cresting a hill on a gravel road only to find that a farmer had his gate open, blocking the road. Where you got the part about me not seeing it from 2 feet away on a straightaway I'll never know. But you're either intentionally being a jerk, or you're struggling with your reading and/or comprehension.

 

[steingar]

You might take a good hard look, because that's how I'm interpreting it. And I don't understand your pointed jabs.

First you didn't see the part about it being on gravel (and claimed that you can stop a bike in 2 feet on a gravel road), and next you missed the part about me cresting a hill on a gravel road only to find that a farmer had his gate open, blocking the road. Where you got the part about me not seeing it from 2 feet away I'll never know, but you seem to be struggling with your reading and/or comprehension.

OK, you've shown my reading comprehension is not that good today. You had asked if I could stop my bike within two feet, so I assumed that was the distance ahead of your obstruction.

However, if I'm on a gravel road, I slow down. I can stop my bike within a few feet on asphalt, but certainly not gravel. If I'm cresting a hill (a rarity here) and can't see what's on the other side, again I slow down. Whenever I can't see ahead (blind curve, hill, fog, whatever) I slow down.

I thought I was dissing you bike, but I have to criticize your judgement instead. A gravel road with limited visibility ahead is a dangerous place. You were obviously going too fast, since you couldn't avoid the obstruction ahead. My philosophy has always been that if I can't see ahead, I'm going to assume there is an obstruction and ride accordingly.

For what it's worth, I've had cause to criticize my own judgement recently, since I've had a couple crashes on my Goldwing. Both were attributable to poor braking action, and its off at the shop getting fixed. However, I knew (or should have known) about the lousy brakes and ridden accordingly. And I swear, if the situation isn't improved markedly I'll part the damn thing out.

I don't think I'm any better than anyone, indeed I'm probably the worst biker on the board. But I am absolutely convinced that these are the things that we have to do to be safe riders. Just like airplane accidents, the cause of most motorcycle accidents is looking at you in the mirror.

 

[Unbeliever]

Ditto in the E.R.

So much for your professional oath.

--Carlos V.

 

[Trapper John]

So much for your professional oath.

--Carlos V.

Good thing they can treat butthurt at the local walk-in clinic...

 

[Unbeliever]

Good thing they can treat butthurt at the local walk-in clinic...

Don't come crying to me when an E.R. doc gives you sub-standard care for a trait you may or may not display.

"Above all, I must not play at God." (modern Hippocratic Oath)

"Whatever houses I may visit, I will come for the benefit of the sick, remaining free of all intentional injustice," (Classic Oath)

"In every house where I come I will enter only for the good of my patients," (Original oath)

II. A physician shall uphold the standards of professionalism, be honest in all professional interactions, and strive to report physicians deficient in character or competence, or engaging in fraud or deception, to appropriate entities. (AMA Principles of Medical Ethics)

VI. A physician shall, in the provision of appropriate patient care, except in emergencies, be free to choose whom to serve, with whom to associate, and the environment in which to provide medical care. (ibid, emphasis mine)



--Carlos V.

 

[Unbeliever]

Just as a point of clarification, what he's saying by ditto-ing me is that he wouldn't be MOTIVATED to treat me in the ER. He isn't saying he wouldn't do it.

No but the implication is there, both in your statement and in his ditto. All statements get the worst possible interpretation from me on this thread because of the advocacy of death and dismemberment.

--Carlos V.

 

[jesse]

Carlos, what I am leaning is that here on this site, there is a wealth of experience and knowledge, but you have to wade through a bunch of superficial, condescending s**t house experts to get there. Engaging in real discussion is futile. You have your choice, you can align yourself with a clique and then you can do no wrong, or you stand your reason and your ground, in which case you will be beaten to e-pulp regardless if you're right or wrong. I'm not talking about this discussion, I'm talking about practically all of them.

Amen for being independent my brother and god speed to you as you undergo your subsequent crucifiction, but the Sac Arrow is remaining independent too. The only side I'm choosing is my own.

Funny how only certain people seem to get that impression. What's with referring to yourself in the 3rd person?

 

[Unbeliever]

I'm not talking about this discussion, I'm talking about practically all of them.

And I'm keeping this in this thread. My interactions with Dr. Bruce outside this thread haven't and won't change. I didn't fall off the turnip truck yesterday. I've been at the internet message board thing since at least '89 or so.

The only two pilot board types that are on my permanent "Eh." list are roncachamp and Mxsmanic (newsgroups). And it's only an "Eh." list and not a "****list". It's really hard to get on that list.

--Carlos V.

 

[colohan]

Just don't deliberately try to smash me or force me off the road, that's all.

I ride bikes too. Bicycles, not motorcycles. Has been one of my main forms of transportation for over 25 years.

It is amazing how much of this thread applies as well to bicycles as motorcycles. But one things I'd note -- it is a mistake to assume that cars will not try to deliberately hit you, scare you, or try to run you off the road (well, the cars don't, their drivers do...). Having had cars do this to me multiple times, I try* to always ride in a way that I have an out even if I encounter a malicious driver.

Sounds like it is worth being defensive in this manner on a motorcycle too.

Chris

*I try, but of course don't always succeed.

 

[gismo]

OK, you've shown my reading comprehension is not that good today. You had asked if I could stop my bike within two feet, so I assumed that was the distance ahead of your obstruction.

However, if I'm on a gravel road, I slow down. I can stop my bike within a few feet on asphalt, but certainly not gravel.

Without offering any opinions on the rest of your response, I have to point out that unless you've got retro rockets there's no way you can stop from 45 mph in two or even "a few" feet on asphalt or any other surface that doesn't include a significantly massive obstruction sitting in your path. To go from 45 mph (66ft/sec) in two feet requires a minimum of 34g. Even four feet would require more than 8g (at least that might be survivable). AFaIK the best you can expect from street tires on asphalt is about 1.2g, 8 let alone 34g simply isn't in the cards. Perhaps you meant two seconds which is quite feasible but during those two seconds you'll travel at least 66 ft.

 

[jesse]

Without offering any opinions on the rest of your response, I have to point out that unless you've got retro rockets there's no way you can stop from 45 mph in two or even "a few" feet on asphalt or any other surface that doesn't include a significantly massive obstruction sitting in your path. To go from 45 mph (66ft/sec) in two feet requires a minimum of 34g. Even four feet would require more than 8g (at least that might be survivable). AFaIK the best you can expect from street tires on asphalt is about 1.2g, 8 let alone 34g simply isn't in the cards. Perhaps you meant two seconds which is quite feasible but during those two seconds you'll travel at least 66 ft.

+1 I was wondering about the couple feet comment too but didn't have the energy to respond. I've ridden a lot of sport bikes and the only way you're going to stop in two feet is by hitting a cement wall.

 

[steingar]

Without offering any opinions on the rest of your response, I have to point out that unless you've got retro rockets there's no way you can stop from 45 mph in two or even "a few" feet on asphalt or any other surface that doesn't include a significantly massive obstruction sitting in your path. To go from 45 mph (66ft/sec) in two feet requires a minimum of 34g. Even four feet would require more than 8g (at least that might be survivable). AFaIK the best you can expect from street tires on asphalt is about 1.2g, 8 let alone 34g simply isn't in the cards. Perhaps you meant two seconds which is quite feasible but during those two seconds you'll travel at least 66 ft.

Hmm, this reading comprehension thing is a bit contagious. No, I couldn't stop the Fireblade or any other bike in two feet. I can stop the bike in time to avoid hitting whatever is in front of me. However, you had more than two feet between yourself and your obstruction, if I'm reading things correctly.

However it went, you were going too fast for the conditions. You had insufficient braking power for an obstacle across the road. I will repeat, if road conditions are that poor and you have obstructed visibility ahead it is necessary for you to slow down. Picking gravel out of rash is exquisitely painful, or so I'm told (by relatives no less).

I think the vast majority of bike accidents, although caused by cages, is really the fault of bikers. The machines are very fast and maneuverable, and a good rider can easily get away from an offending vehicle if said rider has situational awareness.

 

[flyersfan31]

I've been riding motorcycles for less than a year. 99% on local roads. I am AMAZED by how many drivers will tailgate me, regardless of my speed. Just amazing. And scary.

I've been riding a real bike (no motor) for a number of years. In that time I have noticed that the only drivers who get mad enough at cyclists to yell or gesture are 1) old dudes in BIIIG cars - Caddies, Lincs, Crown Vics and 2) 19-24 females driving crappy older cars, like Chevy Corsicas, Grand Ams, and the like.

 

[jesse]

Hmm, this reading comprehension thing is a bit contagious. No, I couldn't stop the Fireblade or any other bike in two feet. I can stop the bike in time to avoid hitting whatever is in front of me. However, you had more than two feet between yourself and your obstruction, if I'm reading things correctly.

I don't think Lance's reading comprehension is the problem. I think your ability to communicate effectively in words must be the problem. You said:

However, if I'm on a gravel road, I slow down. I can stop my bike within a few feet on asphalt, but certainly not gravel.