24 Hours of LeMans

[Ted]

I haven't seen a thread on this. I'm guessing I'm not the only person who's a fan.

I've always felt the 24 Hours of LeMans was the ultimate race of the year, simply because of the endurance required. Certainly other races have their significance within their respective categories and classes. However LeMans is the ultimate of endurance races. If you merely finish, that's largely a win simply because you (and your two fellow drivers) and your car survived. The car aspect being an important item to respect, as even this year about 15% of the initial cars who entered were DNFs.

Despite how strongly I've felt about LeMans, this year was the first race I got to watch a good amount of the racing. We don't have cable and we were on vacation in Florida. Motor Trend Channel was broadcasting the whole 24 hours, which both pre and post-race coverage. Out of the 24 hours total we probably watched about 6 of them - the opening of the race, some in the afternoon, some in the evening (which was middle of the night France time), and the finale with the winners. It's an incredible race to watch. The overnight portions are a bit slower as you'd expect, and in the morning everyone is groggy but with the sunlight people are back in full force. By the time we went to bed in Florida the sun was starting to rise in France, and I'm sure we slept through some of the best parts.

I was personally rooting for the Ford GT to win in its classes of GTE Pro and GT Am, with 4 cars entered in the GTE Pro and 1 in the GTE Am. Ford won the GTE Am with its single car, and the 4 cars in GTE Pro placed 4th through 7th, consecutively. Although Ford din't win both their classes overall (Ferrari won GTE Pro), I still feel the performance was very positive. All 5 cars that entered finished, and the fact that the 4 in the GTE Pro class finished in line consecutively shows an incredible reliability of the vehicles. Although Ferrari won GTE Pro, the other Ferraris were all over the place. Porsche came in 2nd and 3rd but again, the other Porsches were further behind. I know one of the Porsches had a significant issue that cost it 4 laps, it was previously the winner of GTE Pro.

Now I want to do a 24 hour race with my Cobra when I build it.

 

[Matthew]

The night portion of that race, and Daytona, is interesting to see. Different classes of cars have different light configurations, and the brake disk glow is impressive.

 

[falconkidding]

I used to go to petit lemans at road atlanta. After all the big p1 guys dropped it became less interesting. I always liked multiclass racing keeps things interesting.

 

[Ted]

The night portion of that race, and Daytona, is interesting to see. Different classes of cars have different light configurations, and the brake disk glow is impressive.

It amazed me how bright the lights were. Perhaps what amazed me more were the G forces involved. When looking at the LMP1 cars, seeing a solid 2Gs on braking, 2+ on cornering was incredible. The forces on the these drivers are amazing for hours and hours on end.

 

[Matthew]

It's also about 8.5 miles per lap. It can be a long way back to the pits if something breaks.

 

[FormerHangie]

I haven't seen a thread on this. I'm guessing I'm not the only person who's a fan.

I've always felt the 24 Hours of LeMans was the ultimate race of the year, simply because of the endurance required. Certainly other races have their significance within their respective categories and classes. However LeMans is the ultimate of endurance races. If you merely finish, that's largely a win simply because you (and your two fellow drivers) and your car survived. The car aspect being an important item to respect, as even this year about 15% of the initial cars who entered were DNFs.

Despite how strongly I've felt about LeMans, this year was the first race I got to watch a good amount of the racing. We don't have cable and we were on vacation in Florida. Motor Trend Channel was broadcasting the whole 24 hours, which both pre and post-race coverage. Out of the 24 hours total we probably watched about 6 of them - the opening of the race, some in the afternoon, some in the evening (which was middle of the night France time), and the finale with the winners. It's an incredible race to watch. The overnight portions are a bit slower as you'd expect, and in the morning everyone is groggy but with the sunlight people are back in full force. By the time we went to bed in Florida the sun was starting to rise in France, and I'm sure we slept through some of the best parts.

I was personally rooting for the Ford GT to win in its classes of GTE Pro and GT Am, with 4 cars entered in the GTE Pro and 1 in the GTE Am. Ford won the GTE Am with its single car, and the 4 cars in GTE Pro placed 4th through 7th, consecutively. Although Ford din't win both their classes overall (Ferrari won GTE Pro), I still feel the performance was very positive. All 5 cars that entered finished, and the fact that the 4 in the GTE Pro class finished in line consecutively shows an incredible reliability of the vehicles. Although Ferrari won GTE Pro, the other Ferraris were all over the place. Porsche came in 2nd and 3rd but again, the other Porsches were further behind. I know one of the Porsches had a significant issue that cost it 4 laps, it was previously the winner of GTE Pro.

Now I want to do a 24 hour race with my Cobra when I build it.

I didn't see any of the race, though I was checking in on timing and scoring. Time constraints limit my race watching to Weathertech Sports Car (IMSA) and Indycar these days. I've been to the 24 hour race at Daytona six times, Sebring twice, the six hour race at Watkins Glen way back in 1973 when there was a World Championship of Makes, and since it's nearby, I've been to 19 of the 21 Petit LeMans races held so far. I only ever have driven in one endurance race, and that was in 1979. It was a six hour race at Daytona that preceded the Firecracker 400 by a few days, and was for what was called Racing Stock sedans, which was sanctioned by IMSA as a support series for the Camel GT, and was a predecessor to today's Michelin Pilot Challenge. I really enjoyed it but it requires quite a commitment. When you're doing short races, you and another person can pretty much handle everything. When you are doing enduros, you need at least two drivers and two or three people in the pits. If you are doing enduros that are long enough to require a tire and possibly a brake change, now you need four or five capable people in the pits, three or four drivers, a couple of people to arrange for food and drink for the drivers and the crew, hotel rooms for all of these folks and their SOs, so you wind up with quite an entourage, and it's gotta be close to a full time job to project manage.

Racing is hard on cars. Endurance racing is very hard on cars. 24 hour races are very, very hard on cars. Any car you're going to race for 24 hours is going to become a dedicated race car. I'm also not sure that there's a 24 hour race that the Cobra would be eligible for. I know that NASA (the car racing one, not the aerospace folks) does have a series for Factory Five Cobras, but I'm not sure that it's one of the classes that they run in the 25 Hours of Thunderhill. The SCCA runs a number of endurance races, but again I don't know where in the SCCA rules a Cobra would fit, and only certain classes generally run enduros.

If you're going to race the Cobra, you need a full roll cage, which would put an end to your street driving of it. Factory Five makes a Challenge Cup car specifically for racing. A car that heavy and powerful will be fairly expensive to race, it will consume tires and brakes quickly, as well as expensive racing gas.

If you're seriously considering going racing, be careful, it can be quite hazardous to bank balances and marriages. I'd certainly start with something slower that a Cobra.

 

[Lance F]

I've been fortunate to know Dirk Mueller one of the #68 Ganassi Ford GT drivers since he was a teenager running Formula 3 in Germany. He's had a great career and works very hard at what he does. I got to be a gopher for a team he drove for at the 24 hours of Daytona a number of years ago. Gave me a real experience of what's involved. There's no doubt these 24 hour races beat up the cars, the drivers and the crew.

 

[Ted]

I want to eventually do some track days with the Cobra. Reality is I have too much going on to take it seriously anyway. The Cobra is a street car that I can track, not the reverse. If I had actually followed some of what I wanted to do 15+ years ago I would've gotten into racing earlier on. But no money and no support. Autocross never did it for me - I went to a few events and just found it boring. Too short, too slow, no competition on the track. Has its place, but just not for me.

There are cheaper options for endurance and 24 hour races. A friend of mine participates in some of them and the teams enjoy it while having a pretty modest budget. Sure, racing is never cheap (like aviation), but like aviation there's a difference between flying an ultralight vs. a jet. Pump gas and street tires vs. race gas and super sticky race tires make a big difference.

It's just something to think about at this point that won't happen anytime soon.

 

[-KLB-]

If one wanted to dabble in endurance racing, a more realistic start point for many would be 24 hours of Lemmons. I know of one team with an existing car I could get involved with, but I don’t fit in their car. I could probably find a Crown Vic that would be a comfortable fit, but the next challenge becomes finding a larger than average 3XL motorsports helmet, or a 4XL. The 3XL Bell motorcycle helmet I have for occasional ATV use is tight enough to kill hair follicles, even with my hair trimmed under 1/2 inch.

But yeah, those are just the easy excuses for something I have no time for anyway.

 

[Half Fast]

I raced in SCCA for a while, but only sprints. No endurance stuff. Stepping up to 12 and 24 hour races requires a tremendous commitment. In sprints, if the car breaks you pull off the track and your race is over. Wrench on it before the next race, if there is one, or take it home and fix it. With an endurance race, you need to fix it right then and get back on the track. Endurance racing requires a big investment in spares and tires, plus recruiting co-drivers and proficient crew.

 

[Ted]

If one wanted to dabble in endurance racing, a more realistic start point for many would be 24 hours of Lemmons. I know of one team with an existing car I could get involved with, but I don’t fit in their car. I could probably find a Crown Vic that would be a comfortable fit, but the next challenge becomes finding a larger than average 3XL motorsports helmet, or a 4XL. The 3XL Bell motorcycle helmet I have for occasional ATV use is tight enough to kill hair follicles, even with my hair trimmed under 1/2 inch.

But yeah, those are just the easy excuses for something I have no time for anyway.

My friend competes in the 24 hours of Lemmons. I've wanted to go join him but haven't been able to.

 

[AggieMike88]

Now I want to do a 24 hour race with my Cobra when I build it.

Maybe PoA needs to form a 24 Hours of LeMons team with you as the leader.

Vehicle Eligibility: Entry limited to mass-produced, four-wheeled vehicles legal for US highway use at the time of their manufacture. Vehicles must be acquired and prepared for a maximum of $500 as described in Section 4. Vehicles must meet all safety standards laid out in Section 3. The vehicle’s original, manufacturer-stated curb weight may not exceed 4200 pounds. Individual waivers may be granted; just don’t ask about Peterbilts, Zambonis, sidecars, or golf carts again. We already said no.​

 

[Ted]

Maybe PoA needs to form a 24 Hours of LeMons team with you as the leader.

Vehicle Eligibility: Entry limited to mass-produced, four-wheeled vehicles legal for US highway use at the time of their manufacture. Vehicles must be acquired and prepared for a maximum of $500 as described in Section 4. Vehicles must meet all safety standards laid out in Section 3. The vehicle’s original, manufacturer-stated curb weight may not exceed 4200 pounds. Individual waivers may be granted; just don’t ask about Peterbilts, Zambonis, sidecars, or golf carts again. We already said no.​

As I noted above a friend competes in that, and I'd be game for a PoA team.

 

[FormerHangie]

For me, one of the attractions of racing was having a nice piece of machinery to work on. Junkbox racing like the Lemons and Chumpcar series have no appeal.

For most people short distance races with SCCA or NASA are plenty enough of a commitment, enduros are more work and organization than most people can muster in their spare time, not to mention expense.

 

[Ted]

For me, one of the attractions of racing was having a nice piece of machinery to work on. Junkbox racing like the Lemons and Chumpcar series have no appeal.

That I certainly understand. It's much like flying - a 172 doesn't have much appeal to me, I like getting into either serious travel machines or something that's just low and slow for the sheer fun of flying around.

Likewise for racing, autocross never appealed to me regardless of what I was driving. I think the appeal of something like LeMons or Chump Car racing would probably get old quickly for me, but the endurance aspect would be fun. Remember, I'm a guy who used to drive 16 hours in a day regularly and considers any flying day that's under 8 hours as "short."

 

[Half Fast]

... enduros are more work and organization than most people can muster in their spare time, not to mention expense.

Exactly. Serious endure racing requires major support.

The few club racers I knew who also ran the Daytona 24 or the Sebring 12 didn't organize their own teams. They wrote $ub$tantial $pon$or$hip checks to buy a driving slot on an established team. For them it was a bucket-list item to drive in a major race like that. It's a pretty big gamble, because there's no guarantee that the car won't crash or break and you might not get any seat time at all.

For me, a lot of the fun was seeing how well I could do with a very limited budget. I did most of the wrenching myself, recruited buddies to crew, did some wheeling and dealing and horse trading to get parts or have outside work done, etc. I painted the car in my garage with a dozen rattlecans of Rust-Oleum.

Never got a win, but I could often run in the top 5. My best finish was a 2nd at Sebring.

 

[Half Fast]

 

[SoCal RV Flyer]

Racing is hard on cars. Endurance racing is very hard on cars. 24 hour races are very, very hard on cars. Any car you're going to race for 24 hours is going to become a dedicated race car. I'm also not sure that there's a 24 hour race that the Cobra would be eligible for. I know that NASA (the car racing one, not the aerospace folks) does have a series for Factory Five Cobras, but I'm not sure that it's one of the classes that they run in the 25 Hours of Thunderhill. The SCCA runs a number of endurance races, but again I don't know where in the SCCA rules a Cobra would fit, and only certain classes generally run enduros.

I can highly recommend the 25 Hours of ThunderHill. NASA's a great organization...have done many open track days with them over the years.

I was part of a 4-man team in the inaugural 25 Hour race, running an NB Miata. We finished 3rd overall, with no mechanical issues and only light sheet metal contact. This, of course, was before folks started bringing droves of Porsche 911 GT3s, etc!

So great to run a full stint (a tank of gas in the Miata worked out to about 1 hour, 40 min) and really get the rhythm of the car and track down. Track lighting was pretty sparse, and our auxiliary lighting failed a couple hours in...which was interesting!! Definite Daytona fantasies here. Had a great, 30-minute dice with an SCCA Spec Racer...so frustrated that I couldn't get by, but at least I didn't fly off the track in a failed passing attempt.

Cool RX-7, Half Fast! I ran an ITA RX-7 in Las Vegas for a couple of seasons.

 

[Half Fast]

Cool RX-7, Half Fast! I ran an ITA RX-7 in Las Vegas for a couple of seasons.

The car was legal for ITA, and I could run either ITA or IT7. IT7 was a regional class for ITA-prep 1st gen RX-7s and was very popular at the time. We usually had 15 to 20 cars in the class. Depending on entries, we either ran with "IT-Slow" (the ITC and ITD cars) and qualified up front, or with "IT-Fast" (ITA and ITS) and qualified mid field or toward the back.

It was always more fun to run with the slow guys and actually start a race from the front part of the grid. When we were mixed in with ITS and ITA, we were usually scattered through the field, which made it tough to move up very far in a sprint. I recall one race where I passed 15 cars overall but only moved up three positions in class.

I miss it, but most of my buddies also moved on to other hobbies and it wouldn't be the same if I started again. At the time, one of my best friends was racing a Spec Racer at the national level, and of course IT was regional-only, so we used to help out at each other's races. Good times, great people, and lots of fun.

One of the neat things in club racing was that we all pitched in and tried to get everybody to the grid. If someone needed a part or a tool or some help wrenching, their competitors would help. We all wanted to win on the track, not to beat somebody because their car broke and they couldn't get out there.

 

[Kenny Phillips]

I think I watched about 18 hours of this. GF was out of town, so no worries with that ten hour sleeper!

 

[SoCal RV Flyer]

I miss it, but most of my buddies also moved on to other hobbies and it wouldn't be the same if I started again. At the time, one of my best friends was racing a Spec Racer at the national level, and of course IT was regional-only, so we used to help out at each other's races. Good times, great people, and lots of fun.

Likewise. So many hobbies are enjoyable for the social aspect, and so many of my track day friends lost interest and are pursuing other things. Bought a '12 Mustang GT a couple of years ago and redid the suspension, and ran a couple of track days at Auto Club Speedway and Buttonwillow. Just wasn't the same without me mates, so I sold it and bought a nice ND Miata for fun on the street. The airplane pretty much took the place of track driving anyway, but I do miss the thrill of Turns 8 & 9 at Big Willow!

 

[Half Fast]

Likewise. So many hobbies are enjoyable for the social aspect, and so many of my track day friends lost interest and are pursuing other things. Bought a '12 Mustang GT a couple of years ago and redid the suspension, and ran a couple of track days at Auto Club Speedway and Buttonwillow. Just wasn't the same without me mates, so I sold it and bought a nice ND Miata for fun on the street. The airplane pretty much took the place of track driving anyway, but I do miss the thrill of Turns 8 & 9 at Big Willow!

View attachment 75233

I got into motorcycles. The bike is 80% of the fun and excitement of the racecar, but only about 10% of the money and hassle.

 

[UngaWunga]

Raced motorcycles for a number of years. Road racing, vintage, then Supermoto. Riding on the street is now very boring since all the fun is in the corners. Track days.. meh. Costs, just like aviation, went up every year.

 

[Half Fast]

Riding on the street is now very boring since all the fun is in the corners.

Agreed. Fun is in the corners, and cops are on the straights. You can have fun on the street if you keep your speeds sane on the straights but maintain the pace through the curves.

https://www.motorcyclistonline.com/pace/

But it depends greatly on where you ride. I enjoy taking the bike up to the mountains once in a while.