20 Year old dies of Altitude Sickness at 11k ?

Might not be that unusual. My nephew, born, raised, and lived nearly his whole life above 8,000' was skiing one day and got pulmonary edema to the point where he needed to be evacuated down to a lower elevation. No symptoms before that. He just started feeling bad, figured he could tough it out, finally got convinced to get it checked. ER docs gave him a hard time for waiting so long.

edit: not skiing, snowboarding. Breckenridge, CO 9,600' at the base.
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
there is no predicting the human body's amazing capabilities...nor its frailties.
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It's very easy to get dehydrated out here. Even locals manage to do it. I know of one particular case where an otherwise healthy individual (former airborne officer who regularly exercised) went hiking and died in a matter of a few hours. The only cause the coroner would put on paper was hyperthermia. They could find no other plausible cause.

In the case of a 20 year old from a relatively humid, low elevation environment...death while hiking is not a common outcome but it does happen.
 
HAPE or HACE can occur at those altitudes in an otherwise healthy individual.
 
Clark1961 said:
It's very easy to get dehydrated out here. .
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When we moved to 3000', my mild and scanty eczema became bad and stayed bad the whole time we lived there. When we moved back down closer to sea level it virtually disappeared again. I theorized that the lower air pressure causes moisture to evaporate from your skin more readily hence the eczema. I can easily see how you'd get dehydrated more easily too.
 
Quite possible.

Im my late 20's a buddy and I were into mountain biking...I was in no way an elite athlete but I could hold my own and was very active otherwise wake boarding and rock climbing regularly. On a trip to Tahoe we deiced to take our bikes with us. Three miles in it was so painful to breathe I had to abort and turn around...it took till 8pm that night where I could take a deep breath and it not hurt and I was in no way "out" of shape.

I was a snowboarding regular so I was used to working hard at that altitude, but there was something about that day and a combination of my condition and the air conditions that made it physically painful to breath. Luckily I recognized it rather then pushing through.
 
Clark1961 said:
It's very easy to get dehydrated out here. Even locals manage to do it. I know of one particular case where an otherwise healthy individual (former airborne officer who regularly exercised) went hiking and died in a matter of a few hours. The only cause the coroner would put on paper was hyperthermia. They could find no other plausible cause.

In the case of a 20 year old from a relatively humid, low elevation environment...death while hiking is not a common outcome but it does happen.
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yep we lost three this year, I think we ignore the possibility these are simple overexertion, maybe combined with varying degrees of dehydration/altitude/heatstroke
 
Weird. Highest elevation in MS is like 800ft, and I'm perfectly fine at those altitudes. I'm betting there was some preexisting condition that was exacerbated by the altitude.
 
Rushie said:
When we moved to 3000', my mild and scanty eczema became bad and stayed bad the whole time we lived there. When we moved back down closer to sea level it virtually disappeared again. I theorized that the lower air pressure causes moisture to evaporate from your skin more readily hence the eczema. I can easily see how you'd get dehydrated more easily too.
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That's funny. I have the exact opposite. At high altitude my eczema goes away, and at sea level it comes back.
 
Very easy to get dehydrated here in the high desert. And sun stroke. Even at 70 degrees and with clear skies I have to wear my hat and drink water. I have taken it too far and just suddenly lose strength, start feeling very not well, nausea and have to get out of the sun now.

I live at about 6700 feet, and before I got married I used to do extreme camping. Ok, I slept under the stars, not in a tent. The altitude was only around 9 - 10,000 feet but it was easy to over exert myself. Then again, I am no spring chicken so I knew when to take a break.

When I go to sea level I have to remind myself to breathe......

Sad to see such a young person die.
 
deonb said:
That's funny. I have the exact opposite. At high altitude my eczema goes away, and at sea level it comes back.
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That is strange. Obviously other things affect it too. Maybe a type of allergen in one place and not another?
 
I should have succumbed many times, decades ago, to youthful stupidity.
Once I ran down to the bottom of the Grand Canyon in May (it had snowed the night before but was 85 at the bottom), then immediately turned around and made good time on the way back up the South Rim. I think I might even have made it back by 2pm, can't recall as it was 1986 - but I was beating feet because in my mind, I 'had' to see the entire desert SW this trip.
I had plenty of water, appropriate attire; all in good standing with the posted signs at the time.
I got myself to my car and drove straight to the GC medical clinic as I was feeling seriously unwell. A couple of IV bags later I was wobbly but ready to go again.
I learned my lesson that there is more to strenuous confrontations with mother nature than drinking enough and avoiding the sun.
Later; my encounters with backwoods XC skiing in -40F blizzards.
 
Rushie said:
When we moved to 3000', my mild and scanty eczema became bad and stayed bad the whole time we lived there. When we moved back down closer to sea level it virtually disappeared again. I theorized that the lower air pressure causes moisture to evaporate from your skin more readily hence the eczema. I can easily see how you'd get dehydrated more easily too.
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I wonder if it has to do with humidity more than altitude. I lived at 6400' and used lots of lotion. Now that I live at sea level I use it sparingly. But I doubt if it has anything to do with altitude other than it was drier up there.
 
There is s bell shaped curve for human reaction to most things. This guy may have been at the bad end of the curve on altitude sickness.
 
Everskyward said:
I wonder if it has to do with humidity more than altitude. I lived at 6400' and used lots of lotion. Now that I live at sea level I use it sparingly. But I doubt if it has anything to do with altitude other than it was drier up there.
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For the same temp, humid air is less dense. Baseball announcers are always blaming fly balls not clearing the fence on the hot, damp air. Kinda the opposite of reality - hotter and wetter is better for hittin' taters!
 
Sundancer said:
For the same temp, humid air is less dense. Baseball announcers are always blaming fly balls not clearing the fence on the hot, damp air. Kinda the opposite of reality - hotter and wetter is better for hittin' taters!
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While that is true, I have never heard of humans being so sensitive to the fact that humid air is less dense that it would make a difference.
 
Everskyward said:
While that is true, I have never heard of humans being so sensitive to the fact that humid air is less dense that it would make a difference.
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Look at the Olympic track records, they speak for themselves. For us normal mortals, I doubt it would make a noticeable difference.
 
Everskyward said:
I wonder if it has to do with humidity more than altitude. I lived at 6400' and used lots of lotion. Now that I live at sea level I use it sparingly. But I doubt if it has anything to do with altitude other than it was drier up there.
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I guess it's the same thing. The absolute humidity in less dense air is lower at any given percent saturation.
 
Everskyward said:
I wonder if it has to do with humidity more than altitude. I lived at 6400' and used lots of lotion. Now that I live at sea level I use it sparingly. But I doubt if it has anything to do with altitude other than it was drier up there.
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When I visit my folks (8500') from where I live (1000') it always takes me a few days to get over the headaches. The dry skin and sinuses also take a while to get used to, but when I go from 60%-70% RH to about 10%, it's going to take it's toll.

Every year someone has to be carried off Pike's Peak (14k'). As I posted earlier, my nephew grew up, lived, and worked almost all his life at >8000', included a few years in Leadville (10k'). Then one day while snowboarding, something he's done since he could walk, he got hit with pulmonary edema bad enough to be transported down to Denver. But even where my folks live, there are people that need to be taken down the hill, and some of those folks are long time residents. Sometimes it just happens.
 
Matthew said:
When I visit my folks (8500') from where I live (1000') it always takes me a few days to get over the headaches. The dry skin and sinuses also take a while to get used to, but when I go from 60%-70% RH to about 10%, it's going to take it's toll.

Every year someone has to be carried off Pike's Peak (14k'). As I posted earlier, my nephew grew up, lived, and worked almost all his life at >8000', included a few years in Leadville (10k'). Then one day while snowboarding, something he's done since he could walk, he got hit with pulmonary edema bad enough to be transported down to Denver. But even where my folks live, there are people that need to be taken down the hill, and some of those folks are long time residents. Sometimes it just happens.
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My comment was only about @Rushie's eczema possibly being worse because of lack of humidity rather than high altitude. I know people can get pulmonary edema at high altitude.
 
Rushie said:
I guess it's the same thing. The absolute humidity in less dense air is lower at any given percent saturation.
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But you can have very dry air at sea level (Death Valley) or very moist air (Gulf Coast). So the altitude does not necessarily determine the humidity. As you said, it depends on saturation, but saturation isn't constant.
 
Everskyward said:
My comment was only about @Rushie's eczema possibly being worse because of lack of humidity rather than high altitude. I know people can get pulmonary edema at high altitude.
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yeah, I added that part.

Also, the sun's UV exposure on your skin is much higher at altitude, too.
 
Matthew said:
Also, the sun's UV exposure on your skin is much higher at altitude, too.
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Very true. I don't over heat, but the solar really wears me out unless I have my hat and drink plenty of water.

I am at about 6700 ft.
 
Everskyward said:
But you can have very dry air at sea level (Death Valley) or very moist air (Gulf Coast). So the altitude does not necessarily determine the humidity. As you said, it depends on saturation, but saturation isn't constant.
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I'm saying that if water boils at 212F sea level and 206F at 3000' then water is going to leave my skin faster too up there. For any given humidity. What, are we violently agreeing?
 
Rushie said:
I'm saying that if water boils at 212F sea level and 206F at 3000' then water is going to leave my skin faster too up there. For any given humidity. What, are we violently agreeing?
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I think so....
 
Rushie said:
I'm saying that if water boils at 212F sea level and 206F at 3000' then water is going to leave my skin faster too up there. For any given humidity. What, are we violently agreeing?
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ummm, what is vapor pressure a function of?
 
Rushie said:
What? I should have said ambient temperature?
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How about body/skin temperature? I think you are headed towards comparing saturation partial pressure with vapor pressure. At least that's the direction I would go when thinking about vaporization rates. I gotta admit that rates of phase change is one of my weaker areas for phase behavior stuff.
 
Clark1961 said:
How about body/skin temperature? I think you are headed towards comparing saturation partial pressure with vapor pressure. At least that's the direction I would go when thinking about vaporization rates. I gotta admit that rates of phase change is one of my weaker areas for phase behavior stuff.
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Well I have to admit I haven't done these calculations since college so you're probably ahead of me, and great point about skin temp too being a factor. And how about vascular response. I tend toward Raynaud's in cold air. You'd think that would shunt blood (hence liquid) away from the surface skin?

Somebody should do a study.
 
Velocity173 said:
HAPE or HACE can occur at those altitudes in an otherwise healthy individual.
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Yep. I experienced that on a trip to Rocky Mountain National Park. I've been a smoker since I was twelve and had no problem with the rare air. OTIH there was one among us who did and found herself in the hospital for treatment of HAPE. It's hard to predict how people will react. I've spent hours at high altitude without supplemental oxygen that would send others to the hospital. It is my understanding that doctors in the high country take HAPE very seriously.









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