15 yr old engine with 400 hrs

henryinparadise

henryinparadise

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Im in contract to buy a plane with a Lycoming io360.
The plane and engine are 15 yrs old.
TT is 400 hrs which translates to 25 hrs per year.
In 3 yrs of its life it was flown only 4 hrs each year.
Its always been hangered and is near Seattle Wa.

What are your thoughts on corosion?
 
It might be a great engine, but the Lycoming 360 has the camshaft on top.

The thing to do is have a mechanic pull a jug to put eyeballs on the camshaft. If it shows signs of corrosion: BAD ju ju!

If you can, condition the purchase on the inspection of the engine. Just an IRAN inspection will cost 15k plus the camshaft if it is bad.
 
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henryinparadise said:
Im in contract to buy a plane with a Lycoming io360.
The plane and engine are 15 yrs old.
TT is 400 hrs which translates to 25 hrs per year.
In 3 yrs of its life it was flown only 4 hrs each year.
Its always been hangered and is near Seattle Wa.

What are your thoughts on corosion?
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Do you have details on how it was flown during those three years? Eg owner got annual, took a short trip, and then let it sit for 12 months? Or owner diligently flew it 30 minutes every month or two to get it up to operating temp? Any special prep during periods of inactivity, such as following Lycoming instructions for pickling?

No way to know for sure, but my money would be on some corrosion on camshaft lobe and lifters, leading to reduced life.
 
Good luck getting any seller to let your mechanic pull a jug.

We bought our Colt 3 years ago with a Lycoming O-235-C1 that was overhauled 20 years before we purchased it and it also had roughly 300 hours on it. We've put 220 hours on it in the 3 years we've owned it and it goes in for its 3rd annual with us next month.

My advice would be to check compression, get a borescope and look around, verify the engine makes rated power, and use the lack of time flown each year as a bargaining tool.
 
henryinparadise said:
Im in contract to buy a plane ,,,,,,

What are your thoughts ......
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My thoughts are that you are in a contract, and the time has come and gone to think about what price or what should be in a contract. Post up if you get the plane and show some pictures! (I don't want this to sound snarky, just direct and to the point).

BONUS: I would not pull a jug, as that intrusive exam would probably cause more problems than its worth. Are there any oil analysis reports to be reviewed?
 
Few folks will allow a jug pull on a PB.

Pull mag and Rocker Cover instead. They live in the same house.

I’ve have pleasant surprises with aircraft that have been sitting.

IMHO ground runups and one around the pattern are major culprits.
 
henryinparadise said:
Im in contract to buy a plane with a Lycoming io360.
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So it's a moot point...

So did you get the plane for an appropriate price considering there MIGHT be, not is, an issue with the engine do to the time it sat? If so, then you got a good deal and just start saving now for the new engine since it won't be a surprise IF it comes sooner than later.
 
15 years and WA? I’d say it’s fine.

Also I wouldn’t allow a jug pull on a PB if compression checks OK.

I’d tell buyer to go find another plane unless desperate to sell.
 
It’s just a crapshot. Have seen such engines continue to give good service for years. Others eat the cam/lifters after being put back in service for a little while.

Contact stresses peak subsurface so even if a seller was willing to let someone pull a cylinder, a good appearance is not necessarily predictive of future service life.

There does seem to be some anecdotal meaninglessness unprovable thought that steel from years ago was made of sterner stuff.
 
Change oil and filter then change again in 10 hours. Cut oil filter open and continue to check religiously.
 
In my opinion compression checks are almost useless. It could be making great compression. But it could be because it's so pitted and oil soaked that oil helps seal the rings during the leak down. A scope tells you way more. And if you've got chrome cylinders even that won't give you a reasonable idea of cam health.
 
Racerx said:
In my opinion compression checks are almost useless. It could be making great compression. But it could be because it's so pitted and oil soaked that oil helps seal the rings during the leak down. A scope tells you way more. And if you've got chrome cylinders even that won't give you a reasonable idea of cam health.
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Well the oil usage will tell if cylinders are rusted.

I realize this is all after the purchase.

Again I consider a 20 year old engine as a run out regardless of time. Maybe it will continue to run to full TBO maybe not.
 
The good news is that cam failure won't kill you. The it's a gradual wearing down resulting on loss of power, so if you keep an eye on your oil filter and static rpm, you'll catch it before it becomes so bad that the plane can't climb.

There's a good chance it's fine. Hopefully you discounted the purchase price enough to take the risk. Even in the worst case, at 400 hours it would be a good candidate for IRAN. Cam replacement would be a lot cheaper than a complete overhaul.
 
When was it run last?
Borescope the cylinders for scoring and pitting. The Seattle area has fairly low humidity, depending on exactly where. It's certainly not at all like the deep south. All the above ideas are good. If I was selling a plane I would not let someone pull a jug.
 
Everybody forgets there is a year (typically 12 years) in addition to the time-in-service on TBOs. Of course, TBO is largely meaningless in private operation (both regulatorily and in practice). Something that hasn't flown that much is unlikely to make the hour TBO in any circumstance. As others point out, corrosion, hoses, any rubber in the system, etc... are all going to be concerns.
 
Jim K said:
The good news is that cam failure won't kill you. The it's a gradual wearing down resulting on loss of power, so if you keep an eye on your oil filter and static rpm, you'll catch it before it becomes so bad that the plane can't climb.

There's a good chance it's fine. Hopefully you discounted the purchase price enough to take the risk. Even in the worst case, at 400 hours it would be a good candidate for IRAN. Cam replacement would be a lot cheaper than a complete overhaul.
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I have heard several people state that when an aircraft sits for a while, when it is put back into frequent service it will start making metal about 200 hours later. My own single experience matched that.
 
This is purely anecdotal. I bought a plane with a IO320 first put in the plane in 1994. It had very few hours flown in the last 10 years. It had just over 400 hours when I bought it. I have put greater than 200 hours on it in the last 2 years and the engine seems to get stronger and stronger. Initial challenges with fouling plugs. Went to fine wire plugs and has been trouble free.
 
Scotty66 said:
This is purely anecdotal. I bought a plane with a IO320 first put in the plane in 1994. It had very few hours flown in the last 10 years. It had just over 400 hours when I bought it. I have put greater than 200 hours on it in the last 2 years and the engine seems to get stronger and stronger. Initial challenges with fouling plugs. Went to fine wire plugs and has been trouble free.
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Right, once you got it up to snuff and start flying the hell out of it, you're more likely to keep it going.
 
Scotty66 said:
Initial challenges with fouling plugs.
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Back in the day it was not taught to Lean AGGRESSIVELY on the ground. So lean you will not be able to create enough power to take off (which keeps you from taking off super lean).

So if you haven't flown with anyone that has passed that on, DO IT! With most engines you will never have another fowled plug, fine wire or not.
 
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