140 NM trip - none of it Cross Country...

labbadabba

labbadabba

Pattern Altitude
Joined
Aug 12, 2014
Messages
2,391
Location
Lawrence, KS
Display Name
labbadabba
Home Airfield
KIXD, KLWC
I've been asked to ferry a couple pilots to M/X shops in the area this Saturday so:

KIXD -> KTOP - 37nm
KTOP -> KMKC - 49nm
KMKC -> KK81 - 38nm
KK81 -> KIXD - 17nm

Total 140 nm. No single leg over 50nm. So I can't log ANY of this a X/C? KTOP -> KMKC is 49nm based upon that leg could I log the trip? Is that 'fudgeable'?
 
Use VOR instead of GPS... that will get you the 50 LOL... or fly to a 50nm waypoint then turn... Just spit-ball'n here... that would work for 3 of them (kinda)
 
As long as one point of landing is 51+nm from the point of departure you are good.
 
FlySince9 said:
Use VOR instead of GPS... that will get you the 50 LOL... or fly to a 50nm waypoint then turn... Just spit-ball'n here...
Click to expand...

I can always manually measure on my sectional with my old beat up plotter. Looks like 50nm to me...
 
Also I would log this on one line in my logbook as one flight for simplicity's sake.
 
Somedudeintn said:
As long as one point of landing is 51+nm from the point of departure you are good.
Click to expand...

That's sort of the problem. All the landing points are within about 40nm of my departure point (KIXD). However one of the legs in the overall trip is tantilizingly close to that magic 50nm number.
 
Somedudeintn said:
As long as one point of landing is 51+nm from the point of departure you are good.
Click to expand...

I just looked at your route and it doesn't look like that requirement will be met. Sorry but no x-c time unless you add another furthers airport in there.
 
In furtherance of a rating you can't. But if you look at the simple definition of an x country you can log it.
 
I hear ya. On Saturday I flew:

KCHD - P19 - 6 NM
P19 - KBXK - 39 NM
KBXK - A39 - 46 NM
A39 - KCGZ - 8 NM
KCGZ - KCHD - 19 NM

Total round trip - 118.3

It seems like I should get some cross country credit for that, but it was all one flight, and I never landed, or even flew, more than 50 nm from my original point of departure, so no xcntry time for me. :mad:
 
includes a point of landing

even with all of the permutations I tried....
It looks like you're screwed
 
It's all logable as cross country. It may or may not be used in the furtherance of a rating but it is all cross country.
 
azpilot said:
I hear ya. On Saturday I flew:

KCHD - P19 - 6 NM
P19 - KBXK - 39 NM
KBXK - A39 - 46 NM
A39 - KCGZ - 8 NM
KCGZ - KCHD - 19 NM

Total round trip - 118.3

It seems like I should get some cross country credit for that, but it was all one flight, and I never landed, or even flew, more than 50 nm from my original point of departure, so no xcntry time for me. :mad:
Click to expand...

Divide it up into two flights.
KCHD - P19 - KBXK: one flight and not cross country.
KBXK - A39 - KCGZ - KCHD: one flight and is cross country, since your departure airport is KBXK and one landing point KCGZ is 54 nm straight-line away.

Unfortunately, labbadabba there is no way your trip can be cross country unless you put another landing in there somewhere.
 
In between TOP and MKC, throw in a touch and go at STJ?

STJ - IXD = 56NM

But it changes your leg from:

TOP - MKC = 49
to
TOP - STJ - MKC = 96
 
Okay how about this -

KIXD -> KLXT 26nm
KLXT -> KTOP 59nm
KTOP -> KMKC 49nm
KMKC -> KIXD 32nm

If I logged my departure airport as KIXD, I still couldn't call it a X/C (for my ratings) since all airports would be within a 50nm radius. BUT, if I logged them as separate flights, I could call my point of departure KLXT and could log everything after that as one X/C trip.

Yes?
 
Matthew said:
In between TOP and MKC, throw in a touch and go at STJ?

STJ - IXD = 56NM

But it changes your leg from:

TOP - MKC = 49
to
TOP - STJ - MKC = 96
Click to expand...

Not a bad idea. How would you go from KSTJ -> KMKC would you attempt a Bravo transition?
 
labbadabba said:
Not a bad idea. How would you go from KSTJ -> KMKC would you attempt a Bravo transition?
Click to expand...
Yeah, MCI really, really likes to work with GA. It adds to their traffic count in what is a very sleepy Bravo. Or you can sneak under if you go out towards Roosterville.

I've personally never done the STJ - MKC route, so I don't know how tricky that handoff is between MCI and MKC and where you end up once you get into downtown and the buildings.

STJ is also a National Guard base so the controller will remind you to check your gear. Something that got me confused the first time I was there.
 
Matthew said:
Yeah, MCI really, really likes to work with GA. It adds to their traffic count in what is a very sleepy Bravo. Or you can sneak under if you go out towards Roosterville.

I've personally never done the STJ - MKC route, so I don't know how tricky that handoff is between MCI and MKC and where you end up once you get into downtown and the buildings.

STJ is also a National Guard base so the controller will remind you to check your gear. Something that got me confused the first time I was there.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I did an ASR approach into KSTJ they like to do funny things up there.
 
Go to Forbes instead of Topeka. FOE->MKC 51.1nm
 
Matthew said:
Yeah, MCI really, really likes to work with GA. It adds to their traffic count in what is a very sleepy Bravo. Or you can sneak under if you go out towards Roosterville.

I've personally never done the STJ - MKC route, so I don't know how tricky that handoff is between MCI and MKC and where you end up once you get into downtown and the buildings.

STJ is also a National Guard base so the controller will remind you to check your gear. Something that got me confused the first time I was there.
Click to expand...

STJ - MKC is very easy, though you might get moved around a little depending on arrivals/departures at MCI.
 
Add one more wrinkle, my trip from KTOP to KMKC will be four adults in a C172K so fuel management will also be high on my list...
 
DJTorrente said:
Go to Forbes instead of Topeka. FOE->MKC 51.1nm
Click to expand...
I think he's looking at the "original point of departure" being IXD, and IXD - FOE is 37. But, if IXD - FOE is a "repositioning flight" and FOE is the original point of departure...
 
jaymark6655 said:
Divide it up into two flights.
KCHD - P19 - KBXK: one flight and not cross country.
KBXK - A39 - KCGZ - KCHD: one flight and is cross country, since your departure airport is KBXK and one landing point KCGZ is 54 nm straight-line away.

Unfortunately, labbadabba there is no way your trip can be cross country unless you put another landing in there somewhere.
Click to expand...

I was going to do this, but the whole flight was really one continuous event. What defines whether or not I have a new point of departure?
 
azpilot said:
I was going to do this, but the whole flight was really one continuous event. What defines whether or not I have a new point of departure?
Click to expand...

It's up to you:

http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org...9/van zanen - (2009) legal interpretation.pdf

I remember when this came out. It allows you to fly 25 NM east, then consider that airport your "original point of departure", fly 51 NM west, then 26 NM east back to your home airport. You never get more than 26 NM from home. It can count as a >50nm trip, but really defeats the purpose of an XC which is to get you out of your comfort zone.
 
labbadabba said:
I've been asked to ferry a couple pilots to M/X shops in the area this Saturday so:

KIXD -> KTOP - 37nm
KTOP -> KMKC - 49nm
KMKC -> KK81 - 38nm
KK81 -> KIXD - 17nm

Total 140 nm. No single leg over 50nm. So I can't log ANY of this a X/C? KTOP -> KMKC is 49nm based upon that leg could I log the trip? Is that 'fudgeable'?
Click to expand...

Go do a TnG at 69K before KTOP. Then you'll be legal XC for the whole flight.
 
Brad Z said:
Go do a TnG at 69K before KTOP. Then you'll be legal XC for the whole flight.
Click to expand...

That might be the most efficient.

Another option would be a T&G at LRY or LXT first.
 
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labbadabba said:
I've been asked to ferry a couple pilots to M/X shops in the area this Saturday so:

KIXD -> KTOP - 37nm
KTOP -> KMKC - 49nm
KMKC -> KK81 - 38nm
KK81 -> KIXD - 17nm

Total 140 nm. No single leg over 50nm. So I can't log ANY of this a X/C? KTOP -> KMKC is 49nm based upon that leg could I log the trip? Is that 'fudgeable'?
Click to expand...
What rating are you working towards?
 
Matthew said:
That might be the most efficient.

Another option would be a T&G at LRY or LXT first.
Click to expand...

Then you're changing the "original point of departure", so the leg from IXD to LRY wouldn't count as XC.
 
Brad Z said:
Then you're changing the "original point of departure", so the leg from IXD to LRY wouldn't count as XC.
Click to expand...
Right, but everything after it would be for this exercise.

You'd lose out on about .5 or so.
 
labbadabba said:
I've been asked to ferry a couple pilots to M/X shops in the area this Saturday so:

KIXD -> KTOP - 37nm
KTOP -> KMKC - 49nm
KMKC -> KK81 - 38nm
KK81 -> KIXD - 17nm

Total 140 nm. No single leg over 50nm. So I can't log ANY of this a X/C? KTOP -> KMKC is 49nm based upon that leg could I log the trip? Is that 'fudgeable'?
Click to expand...

Not a requirement.

Bob Gardner
 
Will this require a commercial?

edit:
(I'm assuming it's all being handled properly.)

If a PP were to shuttle another pilot that IS a CP, someplace, all the whole pro-rata and logging things come into play, don't they?
 
Last edited:
labbadabba said:
That's sort of the problem. All the landing points are within about 40nm of my departure point (KIXD). However one of the legs in the overall trip is tantilizingly close to that magic 50nm number.
Click to expand...

That doesn't actually matter.

If you take off from Airport A and fly due east for 49nm to Airport B, then fly 98nm due west (passing directly over A) to airport C, thence back to A, it's not a XC for the purposes of most ratings.

On the other hand, if you fly From A->B->D (D being 5 nm east of B ), then then you have an XC as D is >50nm from your original departure.
 
The epitome of irony, the non-stop around the world flight a few years ago landed at the airport that it originally departed from so no X/C for ratings purposes.
 
Matthew said:
Will this require a commercial?

edit:
(I'm assuming it's all being handled properly.)

If a PP were to shuttle another pilot that IS a CP, someplace, all the whole pro-rata and logging things come into play, don't they?
Click to expand...


I don't see how it would. They'll give me some gas money for the KTOP -> KMKC leg which is legit but I'm not receiving any compensation. I posted my X/C on our flying club calendar and they asked to tag along so it was originally intended just to be a personal trip.
 
Graueradler said:
The epitome of irony, the non-stop around the world flight a few years ago landed at the airport that it originally departed from so no X/C for ratings purposes.
Click to expand...

Yeah, that was one heckuva long local flight though.
 
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