121 VFR??

flyingcheesehead

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I thought Part 121 was strictly IFR never ever VFR ever...

So I was kinda surprised when I was following a flight my mom was on and heard "Denver Center, Skywest 5347, landing assured, cancel IFR" with the expected reply from center and a 1200 squawk a moment later.

121 guys, what are the parameters for you being able to be VFR? I couldn't have even done that 135 without prior coordination with ops.
 
I cant remember off the top of my head but its something like field in sight within 30 miles or something like that we can cancel. Can also depart without a clearance.
I just do it on the ground or if its a pain to get reception i'll do it at like 1k on final.
 
Denver Center, Skywest 5347
It might have been a repositioning flight. Just because it was "Skywest 5347" it does not mean it was a 121 flight.

I seem to remember a 737 flying out of JAC VFR to someplace warmer because the fuel ports had frozen overnight and they could not get them open to fuel the plane the next morning.
 
It might have been a repositioning flight. Just because it was "Skywest 5347" it does not mean it was a 121 flight.
Maybe I wasn't quite clear... But my mom was in the back, it was definitely a 121 flight.

Also, I think in the airline world even the repositioning flights are normally still operated under 121, but I'd love to hear something more definitive on that too.
 
Departed VFR all the time in the Bahamas at my regional. Climbed up to 17500ft, picked up IFR with Miami. Easy. Just had to pick up clearance within 50 (IIRC) miles. Canceling IFR, I think was a little closer, maybe 30 miles I think my current airline is the same or similar.
 
I thought Part 121 was strictly IFR never ever VFR ever...

So I was kinda surprised when I was following a flight my mom was on and heard "Denver Center, Skywest 5347, landing assured, cancel IFR" with the expected reply from center and a 1200 squawk a moment later.

121 guys, what are the parameters for you being able to be VFR? I couldn't have even done that 135 without prior coordination with ops.

It's found within an OpSpec and can vary with carrier, and it also must have a procedure in the GOM as well. But yes 135 and 121 can cancel in flight when certain conditions are met.
 
I thought Part 121 was strictly IFR never ever VFR ever...

So I was kinda surprised when I was following a flight my mom was on and heard "Denver Center, Skywest 5347, landing assured, cancel IFR" with the expected reply from center and a 1200 squawk a moment later.

121 guys, what are the parameters for you being able to be VFR? I couldn't have even done that 135 without prior coordination with ops.
 
I thought Part 121 was strictly IFR never ever VFR ever...

So I was kinda surprised when I was following a flight my mom was on and heard "Denver Center, Skywest 5347, landing assured, cancel IFR" with the expected reply from center and a 1200 squawk a moment later.

121 guys, what are the parameters for you being able to be VFR? I couldn't have even done that 135 without prior coordination with ops.

We regularly took A-310/300 into uncontrolled fields vfr, because the towers were closed for our (FedEx) arrival times. Pretty sure the mad dog guys did the same when necessary, though I never flew that jet.

Just cancelled IFR and started making radio calls like a really big Piper/Cessna/Mooney, etc. .

As I recall, our FOM detailed the parameters for us. We were part 121 supplemental. The same for 121 carriers, I’m sure.
 
We regularly took A-310/300 into uncontrolled fields vfr, because the towers were closed for our (FedEx) arrival times. Pretty sure the mad dog guys did the same when necessary, though I never flew that jet.

Just cancelled IFR and started making radio calls like a really big Piper/Cessna/Mooney, etc. .

As I recall, our FOM detailed the parameters for us. We were part 121 supplemental. The same for 121 carriers, I’m sure.
“…mad dog guys…” ???

EDIT: wait, lemme guess, MD as in DC-10’s
 
I'd have to pull up my manual to give the exact verbiage, but our rules were within 10 miles and in communication with ops on the ground. Of course you could also just cancel on the ground, but it's nice to be able to let an IFR waiting to depart get out early if possible.

EDIT: just looked - there's a line in there for non-towered airports that says, "If able, maintain an IFR clearance until after landing." So no canceling just to be nice!
 
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Allegiant does it all the time going into PIE after the tower is closed.
 
When I was flying out of Juneau Alaska Airlines did a flight from Juneau to Gustavus VFR in the summer. Something like a 15 minute flight. I think they climbed all the way up to 3000 ft cruising altitude. B-737

Or use to, didn't look it up for current times.
 
I thought Part 121 was strictly IFR never ever VFR ever...

So I was kinda surprised when I was following a flight my mom was on and heard "Denver Center, Skywest 5347, landing assured, cancel IFR" with the expected reply from center and a 1200 squawk a moment later.

121 guys, what are the parameters for you being able to be VFR? I couldn't have even done that 135 without prior coordination with ops.

121.649 Takeoff and landing weather minimums: VFR: Domestic operations.​

(a) Except as provided in paragraph (b) of this section, regardless of any clearance from ATC, no pilot may takeoff or land an airplane under VFR when the reported ceiling or visibility is less than the following:

(1) For day operations—1,000-foot ceiling and one-mile visibility.
(2) For night operations—1,000-foot ceiling and two-mile visibility.

(b) Where a local surface restriction to visibility exists (e.g., smoke, dust, blowing snow or sand) the visibility for day and night operations may be reduced to 1⁄2 mile, if all turns after takeoff and prior to landing, and all flight beyond one mile from the airport boundary can be accomplished above or outside the area of local surface visibility restriction.
 
8900.1,Vol.3,Ch18,Sec5

OPSPEC C077—TERMINAL VISUAL FLIGHT RULES, LIMITATIONS, AND
PROVISIONS.
A. Applicability. OpSpec C077 is an optional authorization that is applicable to all
certificate holders conducting operations under the provisions for 14 CFR part 135 on-demand
turbojet, all 14 CFR part 121 certificate holders, and 14 CFR part 129 foreign air carriers (except
for rotorcraft operations). Information on C077 for part 129 foreign air carriers is contained in
Volume 12, Chapter 2, Section 5. Information regarding C077 contained in this section applies
only to certificate holders conducting parts 121 and 135 operations.
B. Charted Visual Flight Procedure (CVFP). OpSpec C077 provides for operations
under a CVFP unless operating under the provisions of 14 CFR part 93 or Special Federal
Aviation Regulation (SFAR) 50-2, Special Flight Rules in the Vicinity of the Grand Canyon
National Park, AZ. The minimums in the CVFP may not be lower than those required by
part 121, § 121.649 or part 135, § 135.205, as applicable.
C. Visual Flight Rules (VFR) Weather Condition Minimums. The VFR weather
conditions specified in 14 CFR part 91, § 91.155 may be used. However, where § 91.155(c)
and (d) refers to § 91.157, the minimums set forth in § 121.649 or § 135.205 (or as determined
under § 135.213(a), when necessary), as applicable, take precedence for operations conducted
under part 121 or 135.
D. Uncontrolled Airports (OpSpec C077 Subparagraph c(2)(b)). Uncontrolled
airports can be in either controlled or uncontrolled airspace. As long as the provisions listed in
this subparagraph are met, the certificate holder may operate VFR in uncontrolled airspace in the
terminal area in accordance with this OpSpec. For the purpose of direct communication at
uncontrolled airports, a common traffic advisory frequency (CTAF) may be utilized as long as it
is associated with an air/ground communication facility. The CTAF may be an Aeronautical
Advisory Station (UNICOM), MULTICOM, Flight Service Station (FSS), or a tower frequency.
Acceptable air/ground communication is a demonstrated reliable means to directly relay traffic
advisories (TA) and information that is pertinent to conditions on and around the landing surface
during the terminal phase of flight. For example, if the certificate holder adequately demonstrates
to the principal operations inspector (POI) its reliability to relay essential information, via radio
or another type of communication, through an agent located near the landing surface, it is
considered to be a “demonstrated reliable means” of communication.
E. OpSpec C077 Subparagraph c(3). In lieu of a published CVFP, an authorized visual
guidance procedure such as the use of Area Navigation (RNAV) Visual Flight Procedures
(RVFP) is highly recommended for all terminal VFR departures/arrivals that fall under this
OpSpec. The proximity of obstacles to the departure flightpath, the visibility, the accuracy of the
guidance and control systems, the pilot’s proficiency, and the certificate holder’s training should
determine the size of the area in which obstacle clearance or avoidance must be considered. The
POI should also take into account the airplane performance data described in Volume 4,
Chapter 3.
F. Terminal Departures VFR. At airports that do not have an operating air traffic
control (ATC) facility, subparagraph d of C077 allows a flightcrew on an instrument flight rules
(IFR) flight to take off and depart under VFR without obtaining an IFR clearance, provided all of
the conditions and limitations of C077 subparagraphs d(1) through (4) are met. The flightcrew
must obtain an IFR clearance as soon as it is practical after takeoff, but under no circumstances
farther than 50 nautical miles (NM) from the departure airport. In the case where a certificate
holder is issued OpSpec B051 for VFR en route operations in conjunction with C077, the
flightcrew may apply the provisions of B051, where applicable, in lieu of obtaining an IFR
clearance.
1) At other airports, ATC may have established a “charted visual departure
procedure” with a transition to IFR that permits aircraft to depart the airport under VFR and
activate its IFR clearance at a designated point and/or altitude as published on the procedure.
a) Use of the charted visual departure procedure requires that all of the
conditions and limitations of C077 subparagraphs d(1) through (4) be met. These procedures are
established by the FAA and published in the FAA Chart Supplement as a Terminal Area Graphic
Notice in the Special Notices section and may also be located online at the Aeronav products
website at https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/flight_info/aeronav/digital_products/dafd/.
b) Flightcrews must specifically request this type of procedure by name and
ATC may issue a clearance for the aircraft to depart using the visual departure procedure. In this
instance, the flight will have an IFR flight plan filed and will have received its IFR clearance
prior to departure. This will include a clearance to depart the airport under VFR using the
procedure published in the Graphic Notice for the airport of departure. The IFR clearance is
activated at the point and/or altitude described in the Graphic Notice.
c) Flightcrews must comply with the flightpath/course to be flown, altitudes, and
speed limitations published on the procedure, in addition to maintaining their own terrain and
obstruction clearance until their IFR clearance is activated at a specific point and/or above a
specific altitude as defined by the procedure.
2) Responsibility for traffic separation with other VFR aircraft when operating in
Visual Meteorological Conditions (VMC) remains with the flightcrew. Flightcrews should
advise ATC if a revised clearance or instruction is required to maintain VFR while on a charted
visual departure procedure.
G. Terminal Departures IFR Requirements (OpSpec C077 Subparagraph e).
Subparagraph e allows the flightcrew to accept an IFR clearance that contains a takeoff and
climb in VFR conditions to a specified point in the clearance. The certificate holder must ensure
that the obstacle performance requirements are met.
H. Special Limitations and Provisions for VFR (OpSpec C077 Subparagraph f).
Subparagraph f provides special limitations and provisions for all VFR operations. This
subparagraph is applicable to all the provisions and limitations of C077.
1) Subparagraph f(1). In order for the certificate holder to conduct terminal VFR
operations under C077, they must have in place either a procedure or program which can identify
obstacles in the planned flightpath, and the associated airport obstacle data, to ensure adequate
information is available for arrival operations and for the takeoff and departure performance
requirements specified by operating rules and this OpSpec. Further, they must ensure use of that
information by the flightcrew.
2) Subparagraph f(2). Although each subparagraph has specific details and
minimums regarding VFR, the requirements for sufficient visibility to identify and avoid
obstacles is required for all VFR operations.
 
It's found within an OpSpec and can vary with carrier, and it also must have a procedure in the GOM as well. But yes 135 and 121 can cancel in flight when certain conditions are met.
I *could* do VFR 135, but it was enough of a pain that we just didn't (prior coordination with ops and phone calls before/after). Had to do with flight locating requirements.

I had thought that 121 was strictly IFR ever since the North Central 290/Air Wisconsin 671 midair... But in a way, for a bigger carrier with a dispatch department it seems that some of those extra requirements might be easier to meet.

Some call it a GOM, some call it an FOM. General/Flight Operations Manual.

The FARs and your company's OpSpecs are the rules you have to follow. The FOM/GOM contains the procedures your company will use to follow the rules, and must be accepted by the FAA.

FAR AIM is a fascinating read OP
Hilarious. Show me where anyone's opspecs are published in the FAR/AIM. :rolleyes:

EDIT: just looked - there's a line in there for non-towered airports that says, "If able, maintain an IFR clearance until after landing." So no canceling just to be nice!
So what would make you "unable" to maintain an IFR clearance until after landing?
 
Pretty common to see Alaska go VFR between Petersburg/Wrangell and Juneau/Gustavus as previously mentioned.
 
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