If you are on a tight budget, buying is a serious risk and I would not recommend this path. When owning an aircraft, you must be able to write a big check for unexpected maintenance literally anytime. You can pay for the most sophisticated pre-buy inspection and you are not immune against big ticket items after your first flight. Furthermore, with such a low level of PIC time it might be really challenging to find an insurer without braking the bank.
I need help. I want to get to 250 hours as efficiently as possible.
- Thread starter ImABird
- Start date
ateamer
Pattern Altitude
Wouldn’t you rather do what’s needed to be more proficient? Accepting minimum standards means accepting minimum competence. Demand more of yourself.
pilotshashi
Ejection Handle Pulled
I can understand you sir, Hmm but for the heck of cert. and keep my flying life going better let's stick with the bare min, please.
Checkout_my_Six
Touchdown! Greaser!
The cheapest way?.....a dad with a CFI and plane and free gas. Second? a friend with any combo of the above. If neither....you're gonna have to do it like the rest of us.....hard work and time. 
ateamer
Pattern Altitude
No. Doing the bare minimum will just help insure that your flying life does not go better. Quality vs. quantity. If you can’t afford to do it the right way every time, you can’t afford to do it at all.
Checkout_my_Six
Touchdown! Greaser!
His passengers want to barely live.....
pilotshashi
Ejection Handle Pulled
Savage Reply!The cheapest way?.....a dad with a CFI and plane and free gas. Second? a friend with any combo of the above. If neither....you're gonna have to do it like the rest of us.....hard work and time.
pilotshashi
Ejection Handle Pulled
Off the record, Insurance got them covered. Ahhahh just a penny joke nothing seriousHis passengers want to barely live.....
ArrowFlyer86
Pattern Altitude
- Joined
- Jul 17, 2019
- Messages
- 1,543
- Location
- Chicago suburbs
- Display Name
Display name:
The Little Arrow That Could
I suspect the OP is a troll. His username and writing style are eerily reminiscent of a character who graced our presence last year in a memorable fashion: see "ImAParrot" user. Bruh came in, wrote a bunch of outlandish crap about his flight training experience and then peaced-out once he got bored.
This current character writing intentionally convoluted posts not knowing how to count his hours, how to read FARs and asking for someone to plan his whole pathway from PPL to CPL is oddly familiar.
Also, I'm doubting a guy who can't read the FARs (or find any of the myriad resources online detailing hour requirements for IFR/CPL) managed to get his PPL in the absolute bare minimum amount of solo time necessary to legally get a license.
This current character writing intentionally convoluted posts not knowing how to count his hours, how to read FARs and asking for someone to plan his whole pathway from PPL to CPL is oddly familiar.
Also, I'm doubting a guy who can't read the FARs (or find any of the myriad resources online detailing hour requirements for IFR/CPL) managed to get his PPL in the absolute bare minimum amount of solo time necessary to legally get a license.
Checkout_my_Six
Touchdown! Greaser!
If his avatar ain't a dead give away....
Well, I have seen similar questions from real people in real life and wondered how they could survive. In our days it seems way more convinient to toss a bunch of questions into some sort of forum instead of doing the own research first.
Where this bare minimum approach can end up is clearly demonstrated by the fatal accident of the youtube personality "tnflygirl"
www.pilotsofamerica.com
She was obviously able to convince the DPE during a checkride that she can fly to the minimum standards as described in the ACS. Nevertheless, based on her published content she had no clue what she was doing.
Where this bare minimum approach can end up is clearly demonstrated by the fatal accident of the youtube personality "tnflygirl"
Youtube Pilot and her dad perish in TN
https://www.wbir.com/article/news/local/tennessee-plane-crash-giles-county-knoxville-company/51-6eb93be0-b05c-4e0f-9151-bbd0970f79b0 https://www.youtube.com/@tnflygirl :popcorn::popcorn::popcorn::popcorn::popcorn:
She was obviously able to convince the DPE during a checkride that she can fly to the minimum standards as described in the ACS. Nevertheless, based on her published content she had no clue what she was doing.
ArrowFlyer86
Pattern Altitude
- Joined
- Jul 17, 2019
- Messages
- 1,543
- Location
- Chicago suburbs
- Display Name
Display name:
The Little Arrow That Could
Sure it's possible that someone is that incompetent.Well, I have seen similar questions from real people in real life and wondered how they could survive. In our days it seems way more convinient to toss a bunch of questions into some sort of forum instead of doing the own research first.
Where this bare minimum approach can end up is clearly demonstrated by the fatal accident of the youtube personality "tnflygirl"
Youtube Pilot and her dad perish in TN
https://www.wbir.com/article/news/local/tennessee-plane-crash-giles-county-knoxville-company/51-6eb93be0-b05c-4e0f-9151-bbd0970f79b0 https://www.youtube.com/@tnflygirl :popcorn::popcorn::popcorn::popcorn::popcorn:
She was obviously able to convince the DPE during a checkride that she can fly to the minimum standards as described in the ACS. Nevertheless, based on her published content she had no clue what she was doing.
But having your own Debonair and YT channel documenting your misadventures gives you at least some credibility that you're actually a PPL.
Some joker on the internet signing up for an account and minutes later writing a long-winded post being intentionally daft about basic requirements for ratings and certs has a lot less credibility.
And we seem to be a troll magnet recently so my antenna is up
pilotshashi
Ejection Handle Pulled
Well, it feels entertaining here.
pilotshashi
Ejection Handle Pulled
She was too fast and always counting on AUTOPILOT clicks. Any way RIPWell, I have seen similar questions from real people in real life and wondered how they could survive. In our days it seems way more convinient to toss a bunch of questions into some sort of forum instead of doing the own research first.
Where this bare minimum approach can end up is clearly demonstrated by the fatal accident of the youtube personality "tnflygirl"
Youtube Pilot and her dad perish in TN
https://www.wbir.com/article/news/local/tennessee-plane-crash-giles-county-knoxville-company/51-6eb93be0-b05c-4e0f-9151-bbd0970f79b0 https://www.youtube.com/@tnflygirl :popcorn::popcorn::popcorn::popcorn::popcorn:
She was obviously able to convince the DPE during a checkride that she can fly to the minimum standards as described in the ACS. Nevertheless, based on her published content she had no clue what she was doing.
MauleSkinner
Touchdown! Greaser!
Go fly.
Go to destinations, not just local flights.
Go to destinations, not just local flights.
Pinecone
En-Route
ateamer
Pattern Altitude
And location. 100% real.If his avatar ain't a dead give away....
murphey
Touchdown! Greaser!
In my classes, a C is the bare minimum grade. Do better, your grade goes up. Do worse, and go change your major.
I won't even hire a student assistant unless they received an A in the course.
I don't care what grade you would get in any of my classes, 1) I wouldn't hire you for anything with your attitude and 2) I'd suggest you change major.
[A few around here know what I do in the real world when I'm not teaching....I really am a rocket scientist.]
pilotshashi
Ejection Handle Pulled
Looks like I started this thread with a serious Questions, and it turned up with some BS heated arguments. With all being respect I am sorry sir for my behavior & I took this thread in different way!
I got my answer thank you for all your help.
Checkout_my_Six
Touchdown! Greaser!
Yup....your avatar is a dead give away for a rocket scientist.....
murphey
Touchdown! Greaser!
What? You've never heard of Doooooooggggssss Iiiiinnnnnn Spaaaaaaaaace! ?Yup....your avatar is a dead give away for a rocket scientist.....
Checkout_my_Six
Touchdown! Greaser!
No…..
flyingpreacher
Pre-takeoff checklist
- Joined
- Sep 20, 2021
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- Williamsport, PA
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flyingpreacher
I’ll tell you what I did.
Step 1. Take all written tests as early as you can in the process. The more of the theory you know, the less you have to be taught in the airplane (in turn decreasing your costs and time)
Step 2. Know all of your requirements going in. Don’t “waste” hours. Always be doing something productive with the time you are flying. (Note: this doesn’t mean never get a $100 hamburger, but for the most part, make your hours count toward at least one if not more than one of those requirements.
Step 3. Find an instructor who is also motivated. I have had two great ones. One was headed to the airlines and was MORE than happy to accompany me on a 3 hour trip while knocking our ~2.6 simulated instrument hours.
Step 4. Join a good club. This will cost you more in the short term, but remember, you need 143 hours of flight time. If you can save $100/hr over renting, then your buy in to the club could be up to $14,300 and you’d still break even. Anything you fly more than that is gravy. Bonus if you can sell your share of the club at the end.
Step 5. Do your homework. Where is the closest/cheapest complex aircraft near you? Do you want to do complex or TAA (obviously both is the best, but…)? What do you plan to do with your commercial? If you think you’ll be flying twins, wait until AFTER you get your CSEL, then it’s a commercial add on. No reason to take the test twice!
The more prepared you are the better off you’ll be. Preparation is what got me to all of those goals in a very manageable time (PPL at 40.5, CSEL at 254)
Step 1. Take all written tests as early as you can in the process. The more of the theory you know, the less you have to be taught in the airplane (in turn decreasing your costs and time)
Step 2. Know all of your requirements going in. Don’t “waste” hours. Always be doing something productive with the time you are flying. (Note: this doesn’t mean never get a $100 hamburger, but for the most part, make your hours count toward at least one if not more than one of those requirements.
Step 3. Find an instructor who is also motivated. I have had two great ones. One was headed to the airlines and was MORE than happy to accompany me on a 3 hour trip while knocking our ~2.6 simulated instrument hours.
Step 4. Join a good club. This will cost you more in the short term, but remember, you need 143 hours of flight time. If you can save $100/hr over renting, then your buy in to the club could be up to $14,300 and you’d still break even. Anything you fly more than that is gravy. Bonus if you can sell your share of the club at the end.
Step 5. Do your homework. Where is the closest/cheapest complex aircraft near you? Do you want to do complex or TAA (obviously both is the best, but…)? What do you plan to do with your commercial? If you think you’ll be flying twins, wait until AFTER you get your CSEL, then it’s a commercial add on. No reason to take the test twice!
The more prepared you are the better off you’ll be. Preparation is what got me to all of those goals in a very manageable time (PPL at 40.5, CSEL at 254)
Pinecone
En-Route
Bare minimum solo time is possible. But probably a LOT more than the minimum dual time.
I became a pilot at 19. I’m 57.
I bought my first airplane a looong time ago.
I got into the aviation business in the last 2-3 years. If I knew then what I know now….
The cheapest way to accumulate hours is owning your own plane- period. Unless you have someone letting you use theirs for free.
A flight club is the second cheapest. Renting is by far the most expensive.
Every flight school has to usually own (or lease) the planes on the line. If they lease, you’re paying to subsidize their lease, their bank loan, etcetera. Also, insurance is substantially higher for an airplane used for teaching than it is for your own plane.
Today I buy and sell planes for a living. I have my own upholstery, avionics and paint shop. I’ve bought very nice 2 seaters for 4 figures- some almost immaculate. I’ve bought some in the teens. As a student pilot, I could buy a plane, insure it, fly the heck out of it, sell it, and the cost for me flying it would be gas, insurance and tiedown. Oh wait - oil. As soon as I’m done with my commercial or CFI check ride, specially since a retractable or high performance isn’t required anymore, boom- for what you pay at a school you could walk away with your own plane. For what you pay to go to SLING academy, I could walk away with a very nice plane for far less than the $90k they charge.
Sadly, we are currently try exporting the vast majority of our use plane inventory to China, Germany, India and the Philippines which is driving inventory costs way up. Make friends at the airport and see what heirlooms you find….
I bought my first airplane a looong time ago.
I got into the aviation business in the last 2-3 years. If I knew then what I know now….
The cheapest way to accumulate hours is owning your own plane- period. Unless you have someone letting you use theirs for free.
A flight club is the second cheapest. Renting is by far the most expensive.
Every flight school has to usually own (or lease) the planes on the line. If they lease, you’re paying to subsidize their lease, their bank loan, etcetera. Also, insurance is substantially higher for an airplane used for teaching than it is for your own plane.
Today I buy and sell planes for a living. I have my own upholstery, avionics and paint shop. I’ve bought very nice 2 seaters for 4 figures- some almost immaculate. I’ve bought some in the teens. As a student pilot, I could buy a plane, insure it, fly the heck out of it, sell it, and the cost for me flying it would be gas, insurance and tiedown. Oh wait - oil. As soon as I’m done with my commercial or CFI check ride, specially since a retractable or high performance isn’t required anymore, boom- for what you pay at a school you could walk away with your own plane. For what you pay to go to SLING academy, I could walk away with a very nice plane for far less than the $90k they charge.
Sadly, we are currently try exporting the vast majority of our use plane inventory to China, Germany, India and the Philippines which is driving inventory costs way up. Make friends at the airport and see what heirlooms you find….
bflynn
Final Approach
I have the same question - how do you a private ticket and only have 10 hours PIC? Just the 10 hours solo time during private + your checkride should add up to more than 10 hours. Are you logging it right? Even with an instructor, every flight where you're the sole manipulator of the controls is PIC time. You can get PIC and dual given at the same time.
After getting the private, every hour is PIC time.
YooperMooney
Pre-takeoff checklist
- Joined
- Aug 8, 2019
- Messages
- 202
- Display Name
Display name:
CapellaXS
Exactly what Llk says above...
I've owned a few aircraft and unless you have some serious capital on-hand, you're better off joining a flying club. Things were different before 2019-2020 when the aircraft values started to explode (as did the insurance premiums). I paid $18k for a timed-out Mooney in 2016 and sold it for $40k four years layer. It was subsequently resold for way more than that -- all with the same timed-out engine. You'd be hard-pressed to get a deal like that again -- it's very similar to today's housing market.
Just remember the old saying, "If it floats, flies, or fornicates then it is cheaper to rent".
My local flying club has a Warrior for $118 wet, several nicely equipped C172's for $138 wet and even a nicely equipped BE-95 twin for $238 wet. No way I would buy in this market if I didn't have $75k of play money sitting around to buy and maintain my own trainer. Not when a flying club has rates that low. Have a thoughtful plan before you spend a dime. Many excel spreadsheet "cost of ownership" and "own vs rent" documents out there to run your scenarios.
I've owned a few aircraft and unless you have some serious capital on-hand, you're better off joining a flying club. Things were different before 2019-2020 when the aircraft values started to explode (as did the insurance premiums). I paid $18k for a timed-out Mooney in 2016 and sold it for $40k four years layer. It was subsequently resold for way more than that -- all with the same timed-out engine. You'd be hard-pressed to get a deal like that again -- it's very similar to today's housing market.
Just remember the old saying, "If it floats, flies, or fornicates then it is cheaper to rent".
My local flying club has a Warrior for $118 wet, several nicely equipped C172's for $138 wet and even a nicely equipped BE-95 twin for $238 wet. No way I would buy in this market if I didn't have $75k of play money sitting around to buy and maintain my own trainer. Not when a flying club has rates that low. Have a thoughtful plan before you spend a dime. Many excel spreadsheet "cost of ownership" and "own vs rent" documents out there to run your scenarios.