Which light planes are best for....

...The only problem with the Bonanza is speed (or lack thereof)....or am I wrong about that? There's one for sale by a major carrier pilot whom I know and trust, but it's pretty old, even with limited time. It could be a way to get into owning at a lower price point, though, and get through IR in something that can get me to and from, even if it's a two-stage trip most of the time.

There are some pilots who are not fans of the Bonanzas, but speed is rarely--if ever--cited as a reason. Fuel capacity depends on the vintage--I think the early Bonanzas had only 40 gal tanks. Many of the 1950s models had 50 gal tanks and optional 20 gal aux tanks. In the sixties, 80 gal tanks (74 usable) became standard. Most, if not all, Bonanza models can be fitted with aftermarket tip tanks under STC. There are two tip tank options that I know of: BDS tanks add 30 gal (I think); and Osborne tanks add 40. From the mid 1960s up, any model Bonanza with tip tanks would allow you to cruise at 165-170kts and land with an hour or more of reserve fuel. If you become interested in Bonanzas, the BeechTalk forum has a wealth of info (can I mention that on PoA?).

PA46 is a very nice plane, but seems out of my price range. Might be worth renting while building up cash, or looking at upgrading after spending time in a Bo...?

Sorry, I neglected to research current market prices. It's possible that the early (mid 1980s) Malibus might fall into your budget range.

Thank you - I very much appreciate the thoughtful response.

Thanks for enduring my long-winded post.
 
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The only problem with the Bonanza is speed (or lack thereof)....or am I wrong about that?

PA46 is a very nice plane, but seems out of my price range. Might be worth renting while building up cash, or looking at upgrading after spending time in a Bo...?
There's a couple problem with v-tail Bo's ...but lack of speed isnt on that list. At least not on my list. 160 knots is pretty damn sporty. Magnesium ruddervators...no thank you.

Is renting a pa46 a thing?? I've read in a number of places that an annual inspection on a pressurized pa46 without squawks is in the 20-25k a year range. And insurance is about the same.
 
There's a couple problem with v-tail Bo's ...but lack of speed isnt on that list. At least not on my list. 160 knots is pretty damn sporty. Magnesium ruddervators...no thank you.
What's wrong with them? Beech/Textron says that they are making replacement skins and ruddervators, so they can be repaired/replaced.
Is renting a pa46 a thing?? I've read in a number of places that an annual inspection on a pressurized pa46 without squawks is in the 20-25k a year range. And insurance is about the same.
I meant renting in general, not specifically a PA46. There's a local rental option for SR22s.....
 
What's wrong with them? Beech/Textron says that they are making replacement skins and ruddervators, so they can be repaired/replaced.


Not exactly.

“The price is $23,800 per ruddervator. None are in stock and Mr. Duckett tells me there is a one year lead time.
I asked, and was told there are no current plans to sell replacement ruddervator skins to repair existing ruddervators.”

So no skins, and a set of ruddervators is nearly $50k and a year wait.
 
Has anyone suggested first buying a Cherokee 140 to fly to get your private and your instrument ratings? Save a lot of money, learn about aircraft ownership and then you have an asset to sell reasonably when you’re ready to upgrade. Then you can buy and fly a more expensive plane for the cross country trips you’d like to make.
 
Not exactly.

“The price is $23,800 per ruddervator. None are in stock and Mr. Duckett tells me there is a one year lead time.
I asked, and was told there are no current plans to sell replacement ruddervator skins to repair existing ruddervators.”

So no skins, and a set of ruddervators is nearly $50k and a year wait.
Read the rest of the link. Skins are $8K and in production with a stocking program.

Textron Aviation now reports that undrilled magnesium ruddervator skins are available for order. Parts numbers are:

35-660002-25 U (LH) $8610
35-660002-26 U (RH) $8099

“U” designates undrilled. Mr. Duckett states, “So if you use this part you will best fit the part and back drill from the existing skeleton.

“According to our inventory system we have POs for both of them that should be receiving the RH soon.
[...]
What is the current lead time on the skins that are available?

Mr. Duckett responded:
"Actually, it looks like we intend to stock these skins. My inventory system is telling me the LH is due to be received by the end of March
 
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Has anyone suggested first buying a Cherokee 140 to fly to get your private and your instrument ratings? Save a lot of money, learn about aircraft ownership and then you have an asset to sell reasonably when you’re ready to upgrade. Then you can buy and fly a more expensive plane for the cross country trips you’d like to make.
Maybe for instrument, but for PPL I intend to rent so that my focus is on training, not maintaining. I absolutely do not want to end up stuck in the middle of the process with a problem on the plane that takes it out of service. With a school plane, if something goes wrong we shift to a different plane in their fleet; I lose at most one day of flying and don't drop all of my momentum.

That said, the option of buying a less expensive plane to pack in a bunch of hours once I complete PPL might make sense (I need to run the numbers).
 
Not exactly.

“The price is $23,800 per ruddervator. None are in stock and Mr. Duckett tells me there is a one year lead time.
I asked, and was told there are no current plans to sell replacement ruddervator skins to repair existing ruddervators.”

So no skins, and a set of ruddervators is nearly $50k and a year wait.
And that's why it'd enough for me to take a pass. That's a 70k wild card (after labor) I want no part of.
 
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And that's why it'd enough for me to take a pass. That's a 70k wild card (after labor) I want no part of.
$8000 each, undrilled. I’m sure it isn’t easy work, drilling skins using ribs as templates, but to get to $70k you’re talking about $56,000 in labor. Not impossible, I guess.

I’ve been a Bonanza guy (not currently owning one), and surrounded by Bonanza guys, for 15 years. In that time I’ve never spoken to anyone who had to get ruddervators re-skinned. Obviously, there are some, but it isn’t common.

A bigger, real issue is W&B. Always, ALWAYS run your own W&B on any short-body Bo before looking at it in person. The aft CG problem is real.

OTOH, if people trash talk them enough, maybe the prices will come down to where I can get one again!
 
Has anyone suggested first buying a Cherokee 140 to fly to get your private and your instrument ratings?

That said, the option of buying a less expensive plane to pack in a bunch of hours once I complete PPL might make sense (I need to run the numbers).


Be advised that some Cherokees have had a problem with the wings landing at different locations than the fuselages. Search for “Piper wing spar AD” and do a little reading before you start shopping. It mostly effects planes that have been used for training extensively.
 
Be advised that some Cherokees have had a problem with the wings landing at different locations than the fuselages. Search for “Piper wing spar AD” and do a little reading before you start shopping. It mostly effects planes that have been used for training extensively.
If you want to be precise, that would be 3. A pipeline workhorse flown in turbulence for thousands of hours 20 or so years ago, A poorly maintained and overstressed Arrow that had allegedly been used for aerobatics at ERAU and one in P-town mass, where weather was determined to be the primary cause. That's out of 10's of thousands of actively flying Cherokee's. I feel very comfortable in mine and have no issues flying friends or family.
 
Straight tail Bonanzas are a thing. And there is an Aluminum skin STC for the elevator on those. If 8k magnesium repair skins make you abandon the type, well... maybe get a boat? All of these planes are goats with wings and capable of chewing a 5-column sized hole in your checkbook.
 
I owned a V35 for 17 years and could not think of a better single-engine cross-country airplane. The only expensive annuals I had were when the prop had to be overhauled and when the fuel bladders had to be replaced. Compared to the SR-22, it burned 4-5 gallons an hour less, had a better useful load, comparable speeds and priced a lot less.

I sold it when I retired from full time work and it was past TBO. In those 17 years, it was never down for maintenance more than a week.
 
$8000 each, undrilled. I’m sure it isn’t easy work, drilling skins using ribs as templates, but to get to $70k you’re talking about $56,000 in labor. Not impossible, I guess.

I’ve been a Bonanza guy (not currently owning one), and surrounded by Bonanza guys, for 15 years. In that time I’ve never spoken to anyone who had to get ruddervators re-skinned. Obviously, there are some, but it isn’t common.

A bigger, real issue is W&B. Always, ALWAYS run your own W&B on any short-body Bo before looking at it in person. The aft CG problem is real.

OTOH, if people trash talk them enough, maybe the prices will come down to where I can get one again!
Was actually using the numbers @Half Fast supplied as well as the number for skins. 16,700 for both skins + 47,600 ruddervators= 64,300 total parts. 5700 in labor seemed reasonable
 
Just adding on (most of this has already been mentioned).

I did something similar to this. I was a contract instructor and used a 182RG to fly to week long classes around the country. I was based in the Chicago area at the time and my longest trip doing that was to Boston. Although most were around 600nm. I had a "provisional", refundable ticket that I just kept rolling over in the event of weather or mechanical problems (when you're teaching the class, you simply CAN'T no-show). Most of the classes were in major cities so direct flights on United of American were almost a sure thing.

One of my motivations for flying myself was that we couldn't book the flight home on Friday until 6pm because you really never knew when you were going to finish on Friday. But 99% of the time, we would be done around lunch. Flying commercial, that means going standby on Friday afternoon (good luck with that), or killing 4-6 hours until your flight home. Often, I wouldn't get home until 10pm or later. But when I flew myself, sometimes I would be home for dinner! So I get the time issue you're dealing with.

Having said all that, there's no way this is practical for a number of reasons.

You say it's miserable sitting in a middle seat between two big guys? Have you spent 5 non-stop hours in a SEP airplane? I've done 4.5 in the Cessna and I would not want to do that again. Even in my Velocity with the nicest, most comfortable seats (and expensive) seats I've ever sat in, five hours non-stop week after week would wear me down to the point that I wasn't looking forward to the flight (and when you get to that point, you shouldn't be flying anyway). Besides, I guess it's the vibration, but most people don't have the same bladder endurance in a piston airplane that they do in a car. So don't assume you'll be able to make that 5 hours non-stop. Yeah, you can do gatorade bottles. Been there, done that, not a fan.

Buying the airplane is only the start. Hangars in both locations, fuel and maintenance. Insurance on a high performance, retract for a low-time pilot is going to be eye watering. And 10 hours per week (assuming you flew every week) is going to put you in engine overhaul range in about 4 years. I haven't looked at overhaul prices for a TSIO550 but I bet it's impressive these days.

Weather is going to prevent a lot of flights (even with FIKI). And when it happens while you're away, then what? You get a ticket and fly home? Now someone has to make the 90 minute round trip drive to get you home. And the 90 minute drive to get you back to the airport so you can get back to work. Or you spend the weekend away from home? And then the weather messes up your flight home the following week and you get to deal with it all over again. I have spent many nights away from home waiting on weather when I would have been home in bed if I had flown the airlines... Then again, the reverse is true too (but not nearly as often).

My suggestion is to get a CFI, rent the closest plane to what you're thinking of and go up for five hours, non-stop. And be focusing on flying. No watching videos or reading books. Because when you're doing this for real, you'll be the PIC. Who knows, maybe you'll really like sitting there for five hours. Then you just have to make the money work and figure out the logistics of cancelled flights for weather or maintenance.

My suggestion is to spend that same money on upgrading your tickets to first class. But where's the fun in that? ;)
 
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Was actually using the numbers @Half Fast supplied as well as the number for skins. 16,700 for both skins + 47,600 ruddervators= 64,300 total parts. 5700 in labor seemed reasonable
Read the link. The $23,800 is the complete ruddervator assembly. You wouldn't need to swap out the skin on a brand new part.
 
The problem I see with the OP's original question is reliability. GA aircraft are not a reliable travel means. Weather, MX, etc., means you have to be flexible, and it doesn't sound like the OP's situation offers much of that. Its not that a trip of that kind isn't possible, but doing it every Friday/Monday without variation would be difficult. Especially winter IMC in Wisconsin, there will be times where a FIKI aircraft will just get you in deep enough to get hurt.
 
By now, sage advice tendered here has driven-home the fact that travel in light aircraft is not as simple as getting into a car and turning the key. And yet, many pilots do successfully and frequently use GA aircraft for business travel.

If I read StraightnLevel's posts correctly, he (she?) seems to be fully aware that the proposed trip will not always possible (or advisable, to make an important distinction) and is prepared to brave the horrors of airline travel or scrub the trip altoghether when necessary.

While the OP's mission presents certain challenges, I maintain that it is quite doable--the question is, how often would he find himself crammed into seat 33B while his airplane languishes in the hangar.

Since the OP is working on his PPL and attempting to determine the future feasibility of the proposed mission, it might be interesting to compile some data. Take about 15 minutes every day to plan the proposed flight using a flight planning app or service. Given the real-world conditions encountered each day, note whether the flight could be reasonably completed in VFR conditions, IFR conditions, or not at all. For example, today's trip would be made in seat 33B due in part to AIRMETS for icing along much of the route and low ceilings over a widespread area surrounding the destination. Keep score long enough to achieve confidence that the data provide a realistic approximation of the dispatch reliability that can be expected (which of course will vary with the seasons). Another benefit to running this excercise is that the OP will gain considerable experience with the flight planning process, which will be helpful no matter what he decides to do later. Unless he finds this thread too discouraging and quits, which I hope will not be the case.
 
Since the OP is working on his PPL and attempting to determine the future feasibility of the proposed mission, it might be interesting to compile some data. Take about 15 minutes every day to plan the proposed flight using a flight planning app or service. Given the real-world conditions encountered each day, note whether the flight could be reasonably completed in VFR conditions, IFR conditions, or not at all.
That's a fantastic suggestion - thank you!
Unless he finds this thread too discouraging and quits, which I hope will not be the case.
No, at least not yet. I want to at the minimum achieve the PPL, just because it's something I've always wanted to do. The pain of dealing with the major airlines pushed me over the edge to start, but that by itself wouldn't have led me here.
 
By now, sage advice tendered here has driven-home the fact that travel in light aircraft is not as simple as getting into a car and turning the key. And yet, many pilots do successfully and frequently use GA aircraft for business travel.

One of our old sayings around here, "Time to spare, go by air!"
 
If you can make a Yogi Berra joke about this whole thing, you may just have a chance at it after all.

If it's phrased into the perspective of flying it when you can, and either finding an alternative or T/C when you can't, it just might work.
 
No, at least not yet. I want to at the minimum achieve the PPL, just because it's something I've always wanted to do. The pain of dealing with the major airlines pushed me over the edge to start, but that by itself wouldn't have led me here.
Excellent. Reading your posts and your replies, I'm left with the impression that you are the type of individual who can successfully make it work for you, and do so safely.
 
One of our old sayings around here, "Time to spare, go by air!"
Yeah, that old saying predates PoA by about 5 decades, maybe more.

If you really have time to spare, go by bicycle. But that's another thread.
 
Yeah, that old saying predates PoA by about 5 decades, maybe more.

If you really have time to spare, go by bicycle. But that's another thread.

The corollary is "More time yet, fly by jet!"
 
FYI, Global Entry is for returning to the US after a foreign trip.

PreChek is what gets you the shorter line and less invasive security check.

But these days, so many people have PreChek, that the lines can be long. To shorten more, there is Clear, but that is $179 a year, but less with airline status.

One thing that does confuse people is that if you get Global Entry, you get complimentary PreChek. Buying PreChek along is not a great idea, as it is $85 for 5 years, while Global Entry with PreChek is only $100 per 5 years.
 
Instead, with your own 170 knot plane, you'll leave the office at 4, drive to the airport, preflight your plane and get it out of the hangar, get a weather briefing, file a flight plan, and with luck you'll be airborne by 5:00 to 5:30. You'll spend 6 hours (or more) in the air, land at MKE at 11:00 (or later), get the plane tied down and pick up a rental car, then be at the hotel and in bed around 12:00 or 12:30. Later, if the winds aren't favorable or if you have to fly around some weather.

I would flight plan the night before. Take a few minutes in the office to do an online (Fore Flight) weather briefing and file my flight plan.

Preflight and pulling out of the hangar is 15 minutes, crank and be gone.

Hmm, leaving at 5 and flying 6 hours and in the hotel by 11????????
 
Things have gotten quiet on this thread and since it’s New Year’s Eve I’ll stir things up - this gentlemen needs to buy a Duke!
 
Hmm, leaving at 5 and flying 6 hours and in the hotel by 11????????

No, what I wrote was...

You'll spend 6 hours (or more) in the air, land at MKE at 11:00 (or later), get the plane tied down and pick up a rental car, then be at the hotel and in bed around 12:00 or 12:30.

And I suspect that's optimistic.
 
No, what I wrote was...



And I suspect that's optimistic.
No, it's pessimistic. No rental car or hotel is needed, and the drive would be far shorter if I'm flying. As stated earlier in the thread, I own a farm 5 minutes from KETB and have a condo 15 minutes from KEFD. At both ends, it would be pushing the plane into the hangar and driving my own car a few minutes to home.

The rental car and long drive from IAH and/or MKE only exist with the commercial flights I am stuck with today.
 
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We’ve had “iffy” vfr flying weather in NoCal for the past week or so. Yesterday, decided I’d have a weather window for a New Year’s Day flight and trail run. Got up early, drive to the airport, my planned destination (sea ranch) didn’t look favorable. Reports/forecasts south look favorable. Do a quick flight plan/briefing to marina. Only 61nm, familiar with the route. Had to spend a bit more time (10”?) figuring out radio/avionics setup (rental 172 I hadn’t flown previously)

Get to marina, check weather. Decide I’d better get back now- not enough time to run from airport to beach.

2.4 hrs total Hobbs for 130nm rt.


You may be different. But generally, flying myself takes longer than I expect.
 
FYI, Global Entry is for returning to the US after a foreign trip.

PreChek is what gets you the shorter line and less invasive security check.

But these days, so many people have PreChek, that the lines can be long. To shorten more, there is Clear, but that is $179 a year, but less with airline status.

One thing that does confuse people is that if you get Global Entry, you get complimentary PreChek. Buying PreChek along is not a great idea, as it is $85 for 5 years, while Global Entry with PreChek is only $100 per 5 years.

And if you travel internationally as I do, the extra $15 is nothing. It certainly was worth it coming back to SEA from FRA earlier this month.
 
If you want concrete examples, I’ve completed almost this exact same route 4 out of 5 times in a spam can, round trip, and cancelled that one time due to weather. Why such a seemingly high dispatch rate? Because my timing was inflexible that one time. A few times the weather was ok. The others I waited to depart a day or two later or I escaped 1-2 days early before the bad weather arrived. So it’s more like 2 out of 10 one-ways that the launch occurred at the exact time I wanted it to.

A big factor in long XC is is that you’re going to cross multiple weather patterns. Rarely is there a nice elongated high pressure system on the starboard side of your plane for the whole flight and at the exact time you need it.

If you can afford the time to adjust your schedule, then it’s doable. But if you have to be there at a certain date, then you’ll need to waste time heading there early or just be late. If leaving a few days earlier is unpalatable, or if you cannot be late, then forget this idea with any $250k plane.

No way am I leaving on a long XC after a full day of brain taxing work.

I truly despise commercial air travel, but it saves time in many cases. I have TSA-pre/Nexus.
And very well could save your life.
 
1- or 2-person XC travel from Houston to SE Wisconsin?

The list I have so far is:

1) Cirrus SR22/SR22T. Expensive, but parts and maintenance should not be a problem. There are local rentals available for "fly-before-buy", too. G1 and G2 prices are becoming more reasonable.....
2) Beech Baron 58/58P . Less expensive to buy than the Cirrus, probably more expensive to own. Looks well-suited to the task, but my price range limits me to older examples.
3) Mooney M20, K version or later (or Acclaim). Looks like a good fit, but is it really suited for XC flying? How maintainable are they when you get out into the rural GA airports?
5) Bonanza with tip tanks. A friend of mine is selling his V-tail for less than $100K. A few more $$$ into avionics and interior upgrades would make it a decent deal....???

Thoughts on these? Are there any in this category that I have missed?
Re-starting this thread after a few months of study and learning:

Q: How much more maintenance intensive - TIME, not money - is a twin vs. a single? The reason I ask is that there seem to be more options of XC-focused twins than singles in the used market - Comanche, 310, 340, etc.

Q: How much effort is the multi cert? Even in a large market, I'm having trouble finding a school that has a twin in the fleet, so how do you get this done prior to purchase?

I fully realize that twins are a trade-off between capital and expense, and that they are at least somewhat more complex to fly. Just trying to understand those tradeoffs in a way that helps build my long-term plan.
 
I "know a guy" selling a Bonanza 36 with tip tanks and built in O2 (IMO clutch for long single pilot ops). :D I've done Denver to New Orleans non stop and landed with nearly 3 hours of gas in the tanks.

The multi training isn't the long pole in that tent. Staying current - specifically on the stuff that will kill you fast in a light twin - is more challenging. No one wants to go out in their Baron and practice single engine stuff. Insurance (dead horse I know) is also pretty high for low time twin drivers. Some twins have long enough wings that they won't fit in an average t-hangar so make sure you are looking at that. For that matter, SR22's won't fit in the average T hangar for the same reason.
 
Q: How much more maintenance intensive - TIME, not money - is a twin vs. a single?
For an experienced mechanic or shop there's about a 1/3 more time involved to maintain an average recip twin vs a single. However, it can be a bit more depending on the airframe but the 2nd engine, retracts on most of them, and additional levels of systems add to the maintenance time required.
 
I admit I haven’t read the whole thread.

There aren’t many single engine pistons able to do 900 miles without a stop. You seem to be forgetting about head winds. There’s ALWAYS a headwind.

1000 mile range is not enough if you don’t want to stop. The problem is you’re going to want to go fast, but that’s going to reduce your range, so you’re going to end up stopping anyway.
 
Cessna One Ninety Five. Get some!
That would be a fun toy, but not sure I'm up for radial ownership. The range is not quite there either, and every fuel stop would take twice as long while answering questions about it!
 
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