What’s a graceful way of asking for a different approach?

Salty

Salty

Touchdown! Greaser!
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Salty
Let’s say you get cleared for an approach to get below the deck at an untowered airport, but it’s to the downwind runway or there’s a bunch of vfr traffic in the pattern going the other way. The most simple way is to just cancel ifr once you get below the clouds, but what if you want to keep your clearance until you land? You’re cleared for rnav 18 and you break out and want the visual 36. I could clumsily get my request across, but I can’t think of a clear, concise way of doing it.
 
I'm not sure I completely understand. When you are cleared for an approach to a nontowered airport, they are clearing you for the approach, not assigning a runway. Once you break out, whether you land straight in or circle is up to you, so I don't understand "switch to the visual" after breaking out. At most I might inform Approach that I might circle to land, but that's so they are not wondering why it's taking longer to cancel. If they can see traffic there, they might not even wonder about anything other than why you didn't cancel :D

When I read the title, I thought it was about requesting a different approach than the one offered. All that would take is, "N1234X requests the ..."
 
I don’t want to cancel ifr. Ok, cancel ifr.
 
Salty said:
Let’s say you get cleared for an approach to get below the deck at an untowered airport, but it’s to the downwind runway or there’s a bunch of vfr traffic in the pattern going the other way. The most simple way is to just cancel ifr once you get below the clouds, but what if you want to keep your clearance until you land? You’re cleared for rnav 18 and you break out and want the visual 36. I could clumsily get my request across, but I can’t think of a clear, concise way of doing it.
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If the Approach has Circling Minimums, then just do it. Even if it didn’t I’d say just do it anyway. At an Uncontrolled Airport they do not give any runway assignment.
 
Salty said:
I don’t want to cancel ifr. Ok, cancel ifr.
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You can cancel and retain the benefits of not cancelling, which are separation from other IFR traffic and search and rescue if you crash. You have absolute authority to cancel anytime you want. Just don’t tell them you did until after landing, They will treat you as IFR until then even though you went VFR a coupla minutes ago.
 
Country Flier said:
I’ve done this:

ATC: N12345, expect the RNAV 36 approach.

Me: Could I get the RNAV 18?

ATC: N12345, expect the RNAV 18 approach.


Am I missing something?
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There is not always an approach to every runway.
 
Country Flier said:
I guess I thought that was so obvious that it didn’t need to be said…?

So you want an approach that doesn’t exist?
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I guess I have no idea what your point was/is.
 
Need more info. Controlled field? Relatively bad conditions? For uncontrolled, they really don't care about which runway you land on an approach. You should follow the approach plate and observe the higher circle to land mins.

You shouldn't be worried about stuff like this with controllers, it will get you into trouble someday. Just tell them what you need or want.
 
My question was answered quite well by the first two responses IMO.
 
Salty said:
I don’t want to cancel ifr. Ok, cancel ifr.
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You said read the words. I read the words I wrote (smiley emoji here)

Just curious, if it’s VFR and you broke and have the rwy in site, why wouldn’t you want to cancel?

Also I think people are confused because u simply ask for what u want.
 
If you don’t want to cancel IFR sounds like you may still haves some clouds in the picture.
 
Salty said:
I guess I have no idea what your point was/is.
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That makes 2 of us, vice versa!

Your headline reads "What's a graceful way of asking for a different approach"

I said to just ask for the different approach, and gave an example.

You responded to my example with "There is not always an approach to every runway"

So you either, want to ask for an approach that doesn't exist (to a runway without an approach), or ask for one that does but...is different??? (See my initial example, which is what I showed, asking for one that is different).
 
Country Flier said:
That makes 2 of us, vice versa!

Your headline reads "What's a graceful way of asking for a different approach"

I said to just ask for the different approach, and gave an example.

You responded to my example with "There is not always an approach to every runway"

So you either, want to ask for an approach that doesn't exist (to a runway without an approach), or ask for one that does but...is different??? (See my initial example, which is what I showed, asking for one that is different).
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The fact that you didn't use my example to flesh out yours, and in fact, yours was opposite to mine, confused the heck out of me on what your point was.
 
eman1200 said:
You said read the words. I read the words I wrote (smiley emoji here)

Just curious, if it’s VFR and you broke and have the rwy in site, why wouldn’t you want to cancel?

Also I think people are confused because u simply ask for what u want.
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Not cancelling gets you rescue eventually if you screw the pooch on the approach and crash. If you cancel in the air you don't get that extra insurance. The guys on Opposing bases don't think it's a good idea to cancel in the air for an uncontrolled field for that reason. Listening to those guys actually clears up a lot about why ATC does what it does and why no pilot should be worried about talking to them and asking for what you need.
 
PaulS said:
Not cancelling gets you rescue eventually if you screw the pooch on the approach and crash. If you cancel in the air you don't get that extra insurance. The guys on Opposing bases don't think it's a good idea to cancel in the air for an uncontrolled field for that reason. Listening to those guys actually clears up a lot about why ATC does what it does and why no pilot should be worried about talking to them and asking for what you need.
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In addition to that there are organizations that require you to remain IFR through the entire flight.
 
Salty said:
The fact that you didn't use my example to flesh out yours, and in fact, yours was opposite to mine, confused the heck out of me on what your point was.
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Ah ok...I guess I got confused because in your example (and I know others have said this) I was just assuming...yeah, I made the mistake of assuming...that you knew they don't control you at the uncontrolled field under the clouds/in the pattern, etc.
 
Country Flier said:
Ah ok...I guess I got confused because in your example (and I know others have said this) I was just assuming...yeah, I made the mistake of assuming...that you knew they don't control you at the uncontrolled field under the clouds/in the pattern, etc.
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no worries
 
PaulS said:
Not cancelling gets you rescue eventually if you screw the pooch……
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Well this IS salty we’re taking about….(wink emoji)

But leaving out pertinent bits of information makes all the difference. Although really my answer would still be the same, just ask. But with the info provided…..broke out with airport in site and VFR traffic in the pattern (ie its friggin VFR), was having a hard time coming up with a reason not to cancel in the air. I guess my reply process should have been “I don’t really care WHY you aren’t cancelling, just ask for what you want”
 
PaulS said:
Not cancelling gets you rescue eventually if you screw the pooch on the approach and crash. If you cancel in the air you don't get that extra insurance. The guys on Opposing bases don't think it's a good idea to cancel in the air for an uncontrolled field for that reason. Listening to those guys actually clears up a lot about why ATC does what it does and why no pilot should be worried about talking to them and asking for what you need.
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Interestingly, you can’t rely on the other traffic in the pattern to notice a smoking hole.
 
eman1200 said:
Well this IS salty we’re taking about….(wink emoji)

But leaving out pertinent bits of information makes all the difference. Although really my answer would still be the same, just ask. But with the info provided…..broke out with airport in site and VFR traffic in the pattern (ie its friggin VFR), was having a hard time coming up with a reason not to cancel in the air. I guess my reply process should have been “I don’t really care WHY you aren’t cancelling, just ask for what you want”
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Yeah, I was going to say, since when does Salty care about speaking to anyone "gracefully". I still cancel in the air, mainly because a few months ago I forgot to cancel and the FBO got a call while I was in there....ooops. But if it's IMC, I'll wait until I'm on the ground, mainly because I think it would be embarrassing if for some reason I had to go missed and call them back up after I cancelled.
 
frfly172 said:
If you don’t want to cancel IFR sounds like you may still haves some clouds in the picture.
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eman1200 said:
Well this IS salty we’re taking about….(wink emoji)

But leaving out pertinent bits of information makes all the difference. Although really my answer would still be the same, just ask. But with the info provided…..broke out with airport in site and VFR traffic in the pattern (ie its friggin VFR), was having a hard time coming up with a reason not to cancel in the air. I guess my reply process should have been “I don’t really care WHY you aren’t cancelling, just ask for what you want”
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Exactly. It’s VFR. Just cancel and proceed VFR. But keep the benefit of being on an IFR Flight Plan, i.e search and rescue, by not telling them you cancelled until after landing. It is legal.
 
MauleSkinner said:
They won’t issue a clearance for RNAV 18 circle to 36 at an uncontrolled airport.
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No they won't but you can do the approach to whatever minimums you want, circle or straight in. By requesting the RNAV circle you are advising them of you intentions.
 
jayhawk74 said:
No they won't but you can do the approach to whatever minimums you want, circle or straight in. By requesting the RNAV circle you are advising them of you intentions.
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You could also advise them of your intentions by telling them what you’re going to do.
 
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