Dan Gets It Right - Graphic Crash

Sluggo63 said:
That's odd. I would have thought you had a PFD that showed MMS. On ours it's depicted by the amber "foot." We also get MMS for each flap setting if they're extended.
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We don't have any such concept as MMS. Can't display something that doesn't exist.

Is it just a Boeing thing? Or does it exist in the Airbus world too?
 
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Apparently I was wrong about Dan making it up. Instead, he conflates two different terms with very similar names.
 
Sluggo63 said:
Minimum Maneuver Speed and Minimum Controllable Airspeed aren't the same concept though. Your Vmc is one where "any increase in load factor or AoA or reduction in power will cause a stall" (I'm paraphrasing). That's not what we consider MMS. Our MMS will be the slowest speed that we have 1.3 G stall protection (i.e. can maneuver and still fly without stalling).
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Ok. So youse guys do have a Minimum Maneuvering Speed. Is it a Vspeed? I was thinking with my bugsmasher brain.
 
dmspilot said:
We don't have any such concept as MMS. Can't display something that doesn't exist.

Is it just a Boeing thing? Or does it exist in the Airbus world too?
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Responding to my own post, from what I can tell, the A320 has a similar concept but does not use the word "maneuvering" in its name. Instead they call it VLS, for "Lowest Selectable" speed.

http://www.a320dp.com/A320_DP/flight-instruments/sys-8.3.8.html
http://www.a320dp.com/A320_DP/flight-controls/sys-7.3.19A.html

There is also a lower "alpha protection" speed.

Google says:
No results found for site:a320dp.com "minimum maneuvering".​

So Dan admonishing pilots for not knowing a specific Boeing-world term still looks quite silly.
 
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AKBill said:
I would agree with that. So who out there practices slow flight other than on a FR?
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I do occasionally when I’m out just milling around not really going anywhere. I think it’s a valuable exercise.
 
dmspilot said:
We don't have any such concept as MMS. Can't display something that doesn't exist.

Is it just a Boeing thing? Or does it exist in the Airbus world too?
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There is a concept as MMS. You guys just don't have it displayed.

We have it in the 777 and also had it in the 757/767. I looked back at my MD-11 manuals, and it was also in there labeled Min Maneuvering Speed.
MD11 MMS.jpg

And as you pointed out in your other post, Airbus has the same concept, but they call it something different (of course they do, why wouldn't they).

dmspilot said:
So Dan admonishing pilots for not knowing a specific Boeing-world term still looks quite silly.
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I haven't watched that video in a while and I'm not going to give him more clicks, but he shouldn't be admonishing anybody for that. But, I think it is a great way to think about maneuvering in a GA airplane. "What speed is the slowest I can fly and still be able to bank up to 40° (25°+15° overshoot) without stalling?" I think it's an important concept, but like I said before, no one should be admonishing anyone for not knowing something they weren't taught. Instructing, yes.

And if I remember correctly, wasn't he giving someone a FR and instructing him on that very concept. I can't remember...
 
Sluggo63 said:
Airbus has the same concept, but they call it something different
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When you are using similar names of different things to trick people, like Dan did, the name of the thing is the entire point.
 
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AKBill said:
I would agree with that. So who out there practices slow flight other than on a FR?
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Are you kidding? At AWO, I'm at MCA anytime theres a Cub in the pattern.

But, you don't have to go slow to stall. If you're not pulling G and regularly feeling that little nibble, you may as will drive.
 
yabut RJs aren't real airliners...
george-bush-angry.gif

:D
 
wilkersk said:
Are you kidding? At AWO, I'm at MCA anytime theres a Cub in the pattern.

But, you don't have to go slow to stall. If you're not pulling G and regularly feeling that little nibble, you may as will drive.
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That's funny. I was at MCA in the Cub yesterday waiting....on....a....Cessna....that....was....making....the....biggest....pattern....imaginable.
 
Lindberg said:
That's funny. I was at MCA in the Cub yesterday waiting....on....a....Cessna....that....was....making....the....biggest....pattern....imaginable.
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Cessna's and giant bomber size patterns are a thing. Haven't you heard? Something about giving the student a chance to keep up with the airplane. Its kinda like new math. You don't have to be exact, a guesstimate is good enough. And everyone gets a participation trophy.
 
wilkersk said:
Cessna's and giant bomber size patterns are a thing. Haven't you heard? Something about giving the student a chance to keep up with the airplane. Its kinda like new math. You don't have to be exact, a guesstimate is good enough. And everyone gets a participation trophy.
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When i got to the numbers on downwind and he was halfway to the next county, I almost keyed up and asked if he was landing or departing the pattern. I honestly couldn't tell.
 
Tarheelpilot said:
When I flew the CRJ our minimum maneuvering speed was ref+10.
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Back in the good old days before EFIS, they gave us a minimum speed (ref+ something)for each flap setting for level flight and maneuvering.

Every EFIS system I’ve flown has some kind of AOA-based Vref marker on the airspeed tape that has become the de facto minimum speed.
 
MauleSkinner said:
Back in the good old days before EFIS, they gave us a minimum speed (ref+ something)for each flap setting for level flight and maneuvering.

Every EFIS system I’ve flown has some kind of AOA-based Vref marker on the airspeed tape that has become the de facto minimum speed.
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We had a speed book for the crj. Flip to your weight and had ref speeds for flaps 0-full. Min maneuver speed was the speed book ref + 10
 
Tarheelpilot said:
I dunno… probably not a certification thing. More like pilots. I loved my speed cards. Screw those computers.
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Your 121 certificate needs approval to change those documents…I doubt that what the pilots like has a lot of bearing on it. ;)
 
MauleSkinner said:
Your 121 certificate needs approval to change those documents…I doubt that what the pilots like has a lot of bearing on it. ;)
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I know what’s required. You need to fix your sense of humor.

besides that what’s wrong with speed cards? The airplane did not display the data in any meaningful way that was in the speed card.

. 121 certificates require FAA approval to change things but it’s not that hard. We changed stuff all the time.
 
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sarangan said:
I don't understand the purpose of this video. Pilots with such disregard to safety and regulations don't spend any time watching accident analysis videos on youtube. Also Dan's comment "these little airplanes are barely able to kill you" is very ametuerish coming from a pilot. This is the kind of comment the general public says about all "Cezznas".
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Yeah, that was a special kind of stupid. At least the balance of the craptastic video met the standard he set with that bit of stupidity.
 
AA5Bman said:
I mean... he’s not my favorite YouTuber... but what’s up with all the hate?
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Other than the fact that the guy is a moron who speaks like an authority and yet is completely clueless? Other than that, I don't know why people who pride themselves as being responsible pilots would take offence at this clueless windbag speaking for pilots as if he has any idea of what he speaks.
 
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