How do you overfly an airfield that’s under a low shelf?

kicktireslightfires

kicktireslightfires

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kicktireslightfires
Hey guys, so how do you overfly an airfield that’s under a low shelf? For example, Spruce Creek (7FL6) is under a Charlie. TPA is 1,000 feet. But the Charlie starts at 1,200. So at what altitude could one safely overfly to cross midfield and teardrop into the 45 downwind, or even just overfly to check the windsock. I’ve been taught you want to overfly midfield anywhere from 500’ to 1,000’ above TPA — usually 1,000’ above TPA, unless there are clouds preventing that. So how do you safely overfly when a Charlie or Bravo shelf is just above the TPA?

Low.png
 
1) Very carefully
2) overfly at 1100 TPA

other option:
3) Contact class B or C, explain what you're doing, get clearance into class B or C
 
For C, you don't need clearance, just two-way communications with approach control.
 
I’m not a big fan of the teardrop to enter the 45 and in this case, I don’t think it makes sense. Remember, it’s only a recommendation and in my opinion, it’s not a very good one. Just enter the traffic pattern on the leg that’s most appropriate and land.
 
If you are under yea olde shelf, chances are you have a good handle on yea olde winde direction and speed. So, what's the point of overflying other than it being a shortcut to the other side?
 
I agree with @RyanB. In theory the teardrop works but with pilot flying 737 patterns in a 152, a descending turn to a 45 3 miles from the airport is not my style. And the midfield crosswind to downwind is flown at pattern altitude.
 
murphey said:
other option:
3) Contact class B or C, explain what you're doing, get clearance into class B or C
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I think you should stay on CTAF when in the vicinity of the field. Changing to Approach Freq just to overfly to check a windsock seems quite ridiculous to me. Are you trolling here?

If there are already planes in the pattern, you won't need to fly over the field to check the windsock. If the pattern is empty, and no one available to give an advisory, you could just fly over the field just below the floor of the C or B.

Let's just stop all this teardrop stuff anyway. That was the most ridiculous guidance to come from the FAA in a long time. "Hey everybody, let's fly over the field and start a descending turn into the normal flow of traffic." I've always thought this was a bad idea. In this case, either do a midfield crosswind and enter the pattern, or swing out wide and join the 45 to the downwind.
 
pburger said:
I think you should stay on CTAF when in the vicinity of the field. Changing to Approach Freq just to overfly to check a windsock seems quite ridiculous to me. Are you trolling here
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If I'm coming in from outside the area, I would absolutely contact approach and get tagged up. Then you don't have to worry about the airspace and they know your intentions and confirmed altitude, which saves them having to vector everyone away from the unverified target.
 
pburger said:
I think you should stay on CTAF when in the vicinity of the field. Changing to Approach Freq just to overfly to check a windsock seems quite ridiculous to me.
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I would agree except for a few things.

I might agree if the one and only reason to call TRACON were to check the windsock. Once above a nontowered airport, our attention should ordinarily be focussed on them and I would likely choose a crosswind entry while reporting my position on CTAF. But there can be other reasons. Spruce Creek might be unfamiliar to me and I want to have a good look at it from above the traffic pattern. My direction of flight might have had me already talking to TRACON. In addition to the Daytona Class C, looks like we might be in the approach/departure corridor for the New Smyrna Class D (from whose ATIS I would get a pretty good idea of the winds at Spruce if no one was already reporting on the CTAF). With traffic in the area, I might decide TRACON will be helpful to both they and me. Besides, there is no reason I can't check in with approach and still listen on the CTAF wile taking a look from higher up.

What I don't think people realize is that there is no one-size-fits-all to so many questions.
 
Regarding 7FL6 specifically, call DAB, especially if you're coming from the north. They will be nice to you.

The airspace is very tight there, and I really don't recommend trying to squeeze in between TPA and 1200. Spruce is very active with a large mix of types. Lots of NORDO cubs and RVs, some jets.
 
ateamer said:
Enter on a midfield crosswind at TPA.
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One thing to watch out for on the midfield crosswind is that it puts you nearly head-to-head with traffic on the 45. If you're going to do it, it's important to remember that the guidance that endorses it also says to yield the right-of-way to traffic on the "preferred" 45 degree entry.

Pattern Entries - AFH Figure 7-4.png
 
If I wanted to rear drop, call up ATC, overfly, and cancel service.
 
I don't understand the logic with overflying the field.. it feels like randomly walking across a highway and hoping you're lucky and don't get hit. Get on the radio, listen, announce, and merge into the traffic pattern. Downwind makes the most sense (to me) as it gives you time to speed up, slow down, extend, or even bail, as needed to merge and stay safe
 
Rather than overfly, in this situation I'd probably enter the pattern at 45 degrees to the upwind and fly the normal pattern. You'll still see the windsock and runway environment but you won't conflict with traffic on downwind or entering the pattern. The only traffic upwind is either departing or going around. Both are easy to spot and yield right of way to.
 
Agreed with all on the pattern entry, but with all the airspace around there, along with potential difficulty there might be in staying below 1,200' MSL while maintaining 1,000' clearance over any obstacle within 1/2 mile, I think I'd be talking to approach and then not worry about entering the C. Once you have two-way comms, approach should approve your frequency change before you're entering the pattern.
 
kicktireslightfires said:
Hey guys, so how do you overfly an airfield that’s under a low shelf? For example, Spruce Creek (7FL6) is under a Charlie. TPA is 1,000 feet. But the Charlie starts at 1,200. So at what altitude could one safely overfly to cross midfield and teardrop into the 45 downwind, or even just overfly to check the windsock. I’ve been taught you want to overfly midfield anywhere from 500’ to 1,000’ above TPA — usually 1,000’ above TPA, unless there are clouds preventing that. So how do you safely overfly when a Charlie or Bravo shelf is just above the TPA?

Low.png
Click to expand...
I dunno, because I simply would not do it.
 
Easy enough to get the winds from ATIS at either of the nearby airports, then there's no need to overfly to check the windsock. And easy enough to change a downwind into a wide upwind for the opposite runway and turn crosswind instead of base if it's different or the traffic is going the other way.

But wow, sounds like the busiest private airport I've ever heard of.
 
Lot of misconceptions about the "new" FAA guidance for entering patterns. Gotta wonder if some pilots read the guidance, or just looked at the pictures.

The teardrop entry is NOT a "descending turn". It is a descent to TPA, THEN a level turn at TPA. In the old days we were told to overfly at midfield, fly 3-5 miles away from the airfield environment, descend, and circle to enter a 45 to downwind. This just tightens the circle up a bit by saying we only have to fly 1-2 miles away before descending.

The advantage of a direct entry (crossing midfield at TPA) is that all converging aircraft are at TPA altitude. Nobody is climbing or descending at midfield. In a crosswind entry, you have to watch out for aircraft climbing into the pattern after takeoff. Presumably the FAA looked at accident data for aircraft in the pattern and determined the risk of collision is greater when aircraft are converging vertically.
 
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