TBM Wednesday

gkainz

Final Approach
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Feb 23, 2005
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Display name:
Greg Kainz
Must have been TBM Wednesday at BJC today. Every TBM in the western US must have been there. The ramp was full of them (surrounding the B-17) and runway 3 was closed and lined with TBMs for half the runway.
Of course, I was busy remembering how to fly the Bonanza and too busy to take pictures. Maybe they’ll still be there tomorrow and I’ll get back for pictures.
Oh and yeah, I’m now good for another couple of years of flying with the (B)FR complete.
 
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Save y'all the trouble of going over to FB.
 
You're lookin' at where we're heading with private GA... :(
 
You're lookin' at where we're heading with private GA... :(

Already there, if you have the coin.

Lots of folks flying high performance singles to get around for business these days.

Talked to another CFI earlier this week who has a regular business travel pilot who found a nice TTX and bought it and took a boatload of transition training somewhere and flies it weekly for business.

I think Cirrus made a mistake skipping a turboprop and going straight to the jet. They’d have orders out their ears for a turboprop.

But they may have realized they already lost that opportunity to various other well known turboprop singles. Dunno.
 
Already there, if you have the coin.

Lots of folks flying high performance singles to get around for business these days...

But, for now, still plenty of us exercising the option of flying "affordable" used planes made during the 1960s/70s production heyday, with piston engines using leaded fuel.

My point was those days are numbered. That fleet is aging, and attrition takes its inevitable annual toll. High octane avgas will become even more expensive when the lead finally comes out, and it will have the effect of further dampening fleet total flight hours. Flight training units are copying the big boys and using increasingly more capable simulators to get more out of each expensive hour of training airplane flight time (our 16 plane FTU is taking delivery of an Alsim this winter).

30 years ago, at my airport, there were folks flying high performance singles to get around for business. But those planes were fairly new Bonanzas and turbo-Mooneys. Today there's at least a couple dozen Meridians & TBMs based here (in total they easily outnumber all the piston Cirrus planes on the field) and a few personal Citation Mustangs and Phenoms (but, surprisingly, not a single Cirrus jet so far).

The whole of light GA continues to move upscale. The picture of the TBMs seems where we are inexorably headed, unfortunately.
 
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But, for now, still plenty of us exercising the option of flying "affordable" used planes made during the 1960s/70s production heyday, with piston engines using leaded fuel.

My point was those days are numbered. That fleet is aging, and attrition takes its inevitable annual toll. High octane avgas will become even more expensive when the lead finally comes out, and it will have the effect of further dampening fleet total flight hours. Flight training units are copying the big boys and using increasingly more capable simulators to get more out of each expensive hour of training airplane flight time (our 16 plane FTU is taking delivery of an Alsim this winter).

30 years ago, at my airport, there were folks flying high performance singles to get around for business. But those planes were fairly new Bonanzas and turbo-Mooneys. Today there's at least a couple dozen Meridians & TBMs based here (in total they easily outnumber all the piston Cirrus planes on the field) and a few personal Citation Mustangs and Phenoms (but, surprisingly, not a single Cirrus jet so far).

The whole of light GA continues to move upscale. The picture of the TBMs seems where we are inexorably headed, unfortunately.

No doubt piston aircraft are decreasing in popularity and number, being replaced by turboprops. However you do still see a good number of Cirri and Piper Malibus (the piston ones, not the Meridians) being used.

The primary changing dynamic is that turboprops and jets (most notably turboprop singles and currently twin jets) have increased in popularity for new aircraft. What that really means is that these will become more available for used aircraft when they get to that 30-40 year old range like what we're flying now.

The model for owning and flying those aircraft is going to change, specifically as it surrounds engines. For older turbine aircraft, you tend to hit a point where you will end up only replacing engines with used ones from scrap yards, run past TBO doing just hot sections (this varies some depending on the specific engine), and then when the engines are no longer serviceable the plane is worth scrap value. Note that this isn't entirely different from what we see in the piston twin world, but it goes to a different magnitude.

We're already seeing this happen today. In the MU-2 world I see it with some of the older, lower value planes. You also see it happen with King Air C90s (if anything most frequently with those), Cheyennes, etc. While none of these have the entry level purchase price in line with an Aztec or a 310, you do see them crossing over in some areas with 340s, 414s, and 421s. But eventually the Cirri that are trickling down in value are going to take over the price point space that is currently held by older Bonanzas. For the twin world you're mostly SOL, but there are a few Senecas and Barons still being produced, and most people don't want those anymore.

In many ways I'm not entirely disappointed with where things are going. It was a fortuitous set of circumstances that made the MU-2 happen for us when it did, but I had in the business plan to get into an MU-2 in the next few years. It has proven to be cheaper to own and operate for us than the 414, although this wouldn't apply to everyone. I never believed this when Wayne Bower said it, but it's proven true.

We intend on keeping the MU-2 at least until the engine we did an HSI on last year hits its next HSI (so another 1600 hours or so) as it will then be past TBO and the airframe will be coming up on an aging airframe inspection. But I'm also thinking at that point that an earlier Eclipse jet will get to a reasonable acquisition level, or some of the other turboprops.
 
No doubt piston aircraft are decreasing in popularity and number, being replaced by turboprops. However you do still see a good number of Cirri and Piper Malibus (the piston ones, not the Meridians) being used.

The primary changing dynamic is that turboprops and jets (most notably turboprop singles and currently twin jets) have increased in popularity for new aircraft. What that really means is that these will become more available for used aircraft when they get to that 30-40 year old range like what we're flying now.

The model for owning and flying those aircraft is going to change, specifically as it surrounds engines. For older turbine aircraft, you tend to hit a point where you will end up only replacing engines with used ones from scrap yards, run past TBO doing just hot sections (this varies some depending on the specific engine), and then when the engines are no longer serviceable the plane is worth scrap value. Note that this isn't entirely different from what we see in the piston twin world, but it goes to a different magnitude.

We're already seeing this happen today. In the MU-2 world I see it with some of the older, lower value planes. You also see it happen with King Air C90s (if anything most frequently with those), Cheyennes, etc. While none of these have the entry level purchase price in line with an Aztec or a 310, you do see them crossing over in some areas with 340s, 414s, and 421s. But eventually the Cirri that are trickling down in value are going to take over the price point space that is currently held by older Bonanzas. For the twin world you're mostly SOL, but there are a few Senecas and Barons still being produced, and most people don't want those anymore.

In many ways I'm not entirely disappointed with where things are going. It was a fortuitous set of circumstances that made the MU-2 happen for us when it did, but I had in the business plan to get into an MU-2 in the next few years. It has proven to be cheaper to own and operate for us than the 414, although this wouldn't apply to everyone. I never believed this when Wayne Bower said it, but it's proven true.

We intend on keeping the MU-2 at least until the engine we did an HSI on last year hits its next HSI (so another 1600 hours or so) as it will then be past TBO and the airframe will be coming up on an aging airframe inspection. But I'm also thinking at that point that an earlier Eclipse jet will get to a reasonable acquisition level, or some of the other turboprops.
You need an employee that is a middle aged software developer with a pilots license and can get along with dogs and backhoes. I don’t know why you do, but I’m just certain you do. Call me.
 
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You need an employee that is a middle aged software developer with a pilots license and can get along with dogs and backhoes. I don’t know why you do, but I’m just certain you do. Call me.

We're hiring! As President I am the top paid employee at Cloud Nine, and so anyone below me would get paid less, as one would expect.

My salary is $0, but I "get bonuses" throughout the year that amount to something in the range of roughly negative 5 figures (as in, I write checks to Cloud Nine that total five figures coming out of my bank account).

I'm willing to offer you the same salary as me, provided that your "bonuses" will be deeper into the negative 5 figure, or potentially negative 6 figure, range vs mine. :D
 
Yes, TBMOPA convention was this week.


Nice pic! The 2nd one in belongs to my Simcom training partner. Great guy.

Lots of folks flying high performance singles to get around for business these days.

Not according to all the guys who are only at the airport on Saturday. :rolleyes:

I think Cirrus made a mistake skipping a turboprop and going straight to the jet. They’d have orders out their ears for a turboprop.

I think that may be why Alan Klapmeier ended up at Kestrel. Had they succeeded in getting it out in a timely manner, they'd have had a ton of Cirrus owners going in that direction.

But they may have realized they already lost that opportunity to various other well known turboprop singles. Dunno.

It's an increasingly crowded market. Caravan, Kodiak, Meridian/M500/M600, PC12, TBM, and now this new one from Cessna.

It's also a pretty lucrative market. Compared to piston aircraft and twin turboprops, there are far fewer on the used market. The cost of operation is very favorable.

The 850 and later TBMs are 300-knot airplanes, and will leave a King Air in the dust for a lot less money. Yes, you can buy an old King Air for less and put your money into fuel and maintenance instead, but dispatchability has a lot of value. FWIW, a quick trip through the turboprop listings on Controller shows serviceable twin turboprops starting around $200K (and they're plentiful), while the cheapest single turboprop is a Meridian for $500K.

Funny looking Mooneys.

Well, they're French Mooneys. Bound to be a bit funny-looking.
 
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