Make an Offer legal bindingness

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Let'sgoflying!

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Dave Taylor
On Controller, there is a button beside most if not all ads; Make an Offer.
Are you legally bound by this offer?
Or is it simply a place to start the chat; the negotiation?
 
I'm not a lawyer but wouldn't think anything is binding until you have a contract in writing.
 
Everything I have is for sale..

Make an offer. I may or may not take it.
 
cowman said:
I'm not a lawyer but wouldn't think anything is binding until you have a contract in writing.
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If there is a mechanism for the "offer" to be accepted it may be binding. Even a verbal offer and acceptance can, in certain circumstances, constitute a contract.

Either be very careful, or make sure you heavily condition any offer you make so you always have an out.
 
Zeldman said:
Everything I have is for sale..

Make an offer. I may or may not take it.
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He's not asking if you may or may not take it. He's asking if you are going to hold him to it. ;)
 
Simpler option... use the contact info on the ad and call/email the seller and simply ask "would you take $xxxxxx?". It's a question not necessarily a commitment.

Not sure how the button on controller works but I don't think most reasonable people would consider something like that binding. Of course a good enough lawyer + a crummy enough judge can make anything "reasonable"
 
Maybe yes. Maybe no. An electronic contract, in most states, is as binding as a paper one. What does it say when you read the Terms and Conditions associated with pressing the button?

Considering all the provisions for prebuys, rescission, delivery, title and payment passage existing in even simple aircraft sales, I'd be surprised if this was more than an "offer to negotiate." But I've been surprised before.

Edit. I took a look. There are no Terms and Conditions and I could find and no link explaining what "Make an Offer" means. Unless I missed it (and it should be obvious), in the context of the reality that binding transactions take place on websites every minute, the lack of any explanation is pretty dumb. In its absence, I'd avoid using it in favor of other contact methods.
 
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Note that an "offer" is NOT binding at all. An accepted offer forms the basis for a contract.
The advertisement on a website isn't likely to be considered an offer at all. So you submit your offer, and then it's up to the seller to act.

Now the question is, what happens if there is an accepted offer and one party or the other renegs (not clear which person you were concerned about in your strawman). Chances are that with a pretty weak arrangement like this, there's minimal damage to the breach and probably not worth pursuing things if it falls apart.
 
In practice, what is the seller going to do if you suddenly get cold feet? Take you to court and argue that he's got an email where you said you'd pay him one million dollars for his Cessna 150 so he wants his cash now?

I think most sellers would just vent to their buddies about the lookiloo who jerked them around and/or post on their favorite pilot forum about how not everyone who presses the "Make an Offer" button is serious, and life would go on.
 
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Jim_R said:
In practice, what is the seller going to do if you suddenly get cold feet? Take you to court and argue that he's got an email where you said you'd pay him one million dollars for his Cessna 150 so he wants his cash now?

I think most sellers would just vent to their buddies about the lookiloo who jerked them around and/or post on their favorite pilot forum about how not everyone who presses the "Make an Offer" button is serious, and life would go on.
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If you made me an offer of 1 million to buy my 152 and you had enough financial resources, I am confident I could find an attorney who would take the case on contingency.
 
Clip4 said:
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If you made me an offer of 1 million to buy my 152 and you had enough financial resources, I am confident I could find an attorney who would take the case on contingency.
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Perhaps, but that's a pretty big caveat. Would the same lawyer jump to get involved in a $75k offer on a 1979 Archer, from a guy who was going to take out a $50k loan?
 
flyingron said:
Note that an "offer" is NOT binding at all.
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An offer very often binds the offeror, at least until it's revoked. The better question is what does out bind him to, and I agree with Mark that it's probably an offer to negotiate. In any event, if the offer is just $x for a certain plane, there are a lot of missing terms, even if accepted. Maybe those terms get filled in by custom, maybe they are material. As for writing, the UCC says a contract to buy goods can take any form, even conduct, sufficient to show agreement.
 
I wouldn't use the button. There is a risk that the law will treat it as an unconditional offer to purchase the plane for that price. Why take that risk? E-mail or call with an offer or a request to negotiate, in either case conditioned on a satisfactory inspection and any other conditions that are appropriate to your situation.
 
Your question is literally the subject of the entire first semester of contract law in law school.
 
Lindberg said:
An offer very often binds the offeror, at least until it's revoked. The better question is what does out bind him to, and I agree with Mark that it's probably an offer to negotiate. In any event, if the offer is just $x for a certain plane, there are a lot of missing terms, even if accepted. Maybe those terms get filled in by custom, maybe they are material. As for writing, the UCC says a contract to buy goods can take any form, even conduct, sufficient to show agreement.
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I wonder if that carries on to a duty of a seller to complete a sale.
 
Clip4 said:
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If you made me an offer of 1 million to buy my 152 and you had enough financial resources, I am confident I could find an attorney who would take the case on contingency.
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Nope, no lawyer would waste his time. First off, the damages are not going to be "A million dollars" even if the suit was won. And second, the lawyer will tell you what I told you already, an OFFER alone is not something you can sue over.
 
I recently made an offer on some real estate, and it was accepted by the seller. It was not just a price, the offer had some contingencies, one of which was that we would hire a lawyer together and split the lawyer's fee, except for the fees that by law must be paid by the seller. The offer explicitly said that I would not pay any additional "nuisance fees" So far so good, I have done, dunno, 15 transactions like this, all without an agent, worked very well. Except this time the listing agent got involved and sent me back 52 pages of things to sign that included all kinds of language and yes, maybe $500 of nuisance fees that were clearly made out of whole cloth (Wire transfer fee??). I told the agent I was not interested in the property anymore, there was no discussion about pulling out of an already accepted offer. And if there had been, I would have pointed out that my offer had clearly not been accepted as what she sent back was not what I offered.

The postcript is this seller is really desperate to sell the property and wants me to make another offer and has said she will accept about any price and my terms. So I am in the process of doing this. That agent cost the seller quite a bit of money!
 
I asked the controller.com admin, he says this fwiw:
(who knows if what the webmaster says is controlling on this issue)
[ha, see what I did there?]

Hi Dave,
The Make an Offer button is not legally binding; that is something between you two and in the end everything will still be negotiable! Let me know if you have a question!
Thomas Crawford
(800) 247-4890 (Office) | (402) 417-7639 (Direct) | (402) 525 -7351 (Mobile)

120 W. Harvest Drive | Lincoln, NE 68521 | www.Controller.com
 
There is a comment section to the "Make an Offer" button; I guess you could put in there, "Offer conditional upon me being happy" or whatever conditions you want like successful prebuy etc.
 
flyingron said:
Nope, no lawyer would waste his time. First off, the damages are not going to be "A million dollars" even if the suit was won. And second, the lawyer will tell you what I told you already, an OFFER alone is not something you can sue over.
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An offer invites acceptance. And offer + acceptance = contract. Whether there's an actual meeting of the minds and what the terms of the contract may be open questions.
 
Lindberg said:
An offer invites acceptance. And offer + acceptance = contract. Whether there's an actual meeting of the minds and what the terms of the contract may be open questions.
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Actually, offer + acceptance + consideration + mutuality + competency/capacity = contract.

As I stated, Clip4's comment that my response you snipped the above out of was ludicrously wrong.
 
You make an offer 'I'll give you X', he says 'I accept' ---> You bought yourself a plane.
 
flyingron said:
Actually, offer + acceptance + consideration + mutuality + competency/capacity = contract.

As I stated, Clip4's comment that my response you snipped the above out of was ludicrously wrong.
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It's possible I simplified; many volumes have been written on the subject. However, I note that the additional elements you list may be subsumed in offer and acceptance. This I from Professor Farnsworth.20170914_153052.jpg

I don't agree that Clip's analysis was ludicrously wrong, except for the part about finding a contingent representation. If I offer to buy your airplane, you might indicate acceptance by delivering it.
 
As one prof liked to say, nothing can be consideration, if it's bargained for.
 
While we're on the topic, does anyone know if there are any intact Carbolic Smoke Balls out there? I've always wanted one as a conversation piece.
 
iamtheari said:
While we're on the topic, does anyone know if there are any intact Carbolic Smoke Balls out there? I've always wanted one as a conversation piece.
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There's a company that makes replica Carbolic Smoke Balls out there. I gave my father (a lawyer) one for Christmas a few years back.
 
Lindberg said:
It's possible I simplified; many volumes have been written on the subject. However, I note that the additional elements you list may be subsumed in offer and acceptance. This I from Professor Farnsworth.View attachment 56360

I don't agree that Clip's analysis was ludicrously wrong, except for the part about finding a contingent representation. If I offer to buy your airplane, you might indicate acceptance by delivering it.
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The continent representation was the only point he made. My reply which was whittled out of context by subsequent posts indicated that that far from "I'm sure I can find a lawyer to take it" to "no lawyer would" was valid for the reasons given (there really isn't a MILLION dollars to take a third of).
 
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