Talking to ATC

Good advice here, the best of which for me was listening to liveatc.net constantly. I am a very reserved person, and even when I do feel like talking, the best I've got is still a relatively weak voice. - I can't count the times I've been laughed at for how pathetic it is when I yell "clear" on engine start - Anyway, it probably took me until my xc solo to really feel comfortable on the radios. I trained at KAPA which is something like the #10 busiest GA airport in the country; in the beginning, I was intimidated but now I feel perfectly comfortable with radio communication. It's just a learning process, like anything else.
 
Training in a class D that was where my instructor said I was the weakest also. I downloaded the liveatc app and listened to it driving to/from every lesson.
 
CC268 said:
... talking to ATC seems like it would be so difficult at first.
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Maybe at first. Here is something that you should understand:

99% of what you will be told is said in very standardized language. CRAFT for instrument clearances, for example. Once you have heard the standardized language once or twice you will start to recognize it as a whole thing, not a bunch of individual words. This makes both understanding and readbacks much easier. I was a ham with I was a kid and didn't think I was having any trouble with communicating at my towered airport, but one day my PPL instructor and I were in the pattern and the local controller decided to change the active runway. I did not comprehend a word of the instruction, so my instructor had to do the readback and explain what had happened. Now, when this happens again, I will probably comprehend just fine. In about 1000 hours of flying since then, though, I have never heard that again.

So if you listen to live ATC for a while you will not only become familiar with the standardized language and phrasing, you will begin to anticipate what the pilot will hear after he makes a transmission to ATC.

Another thing that I don't know has been mentioned is the Pilot/Controller Glossary in the back of the AIM. This is worth a thorough reading or two. It is not everything you need to know but it is a lot.
 
Tell them who you are, where you and what you want to do. Then wait for an answer. And LISTEN to the other traffic on frequency. It just might be for YOU!
 
Hello CC! I hope some training options are opening up for you. WestWind seems to be as busy as always.

Each time I went up with my instructor, I did one more thing than before on the radio.
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+1. I did this and for a while my instructor had to know when to come to my rescue!

It helps to rehearse what you are going to say just before you press that transmit button.

As others posted, pick a Class D airport to listen to. A lot of what is said is the same thing over-and-over with small differences for the individual speakers. It is easy to include ATC "conversations" as part of your chair flying which is a big help.

I graduated from NAU in May so I can attest to the winds in Flagstaff..especially in the Spring.
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I thought there was a reason I liked you: my wife and I are both "Lumberjacks," class of '91. Flagstaff has sure changed since then.
 
RobertSubnet said:
Hello CC! I hope some training options are opening up for you. WestWind seems to be as busy as always.



+1. I did this and for a while my instructor had to know when to come to my rescue!

It helps to rehearse what you are going to say just before you press that transmit button.

As others posted, pick a Class D airport to listen to. A lot of what is said is the same thing over-and-over with small differences for the individual speakers. It is easy to include ATC "conversations" as part of your chair flying which is a big help.



I thought there was a reason I liked you: my wife and I are both "Lumberjacks," class of '91. Flagstaff has sure changed since then.
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Hey Robert,

I am taking my Knowledge test tomorrow and hope to start my flight training in the next few weeks here. I think I will probably end up with one of the schools over at Scottsdale, but I haven't made a final decision on that yet. I think I am definitely going to pay a bit of a premium for flying at Scottsdale.

Awesome, I definitely miss Flagstaff sometimes (my parents still have a house up there). It is amazing how much it changed just in the 4 years I was there - both campus and the surrounding town.
 
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I too second the "student pilot" and LiveATC recommendations.

There are great books and resources out there that have already been mentioned here. Just read, listen and learn. It is just English, nothing scary. If you get a good instructor, you will be talking to ATC in no time.

You mention readbacks being your biggest hurdle. Read back pertinent information and end with your callsign. No need to repeat verbatim. Listen to the pros (again, LiveATC) and get it in your blood.

Just like any language, it takes some practice and becomes second nature.
"Cirrus six papa charlie, descend and maintain 2,000, turn left heading 340"
"2000, left 340, six papa charlie"

(and a bonus round for Bryan)
"And ... aaaah .... we are on a 35-mile final, six papa charlie"
"Cirrus six papa charlie ... um .... roger"
 
CC268 said:
Hey Robert,

I am taking my Knowledge test tomorrow and hope to start my flight training in the next few weeks here. I think I will probably end up with one of the schools over at Scottsdale, but I haven't made a final decision on that yet. I think I am definitely going to pay a bit of a premium for flying at Scottsdale.

Awesome, I definitely miss Flagstaff sometimes (my parents still have a house up there). It is amazing how much it changed just in the 4 years I was there - both campus and the surrounding town.
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You're taking the knowledge test before starting?

If you're doing well on practice tests, that can work, but it makes a lot more sense if you fly. You don't have to pass the written until your check ride, though some instructors require you to do it pre solo.
 
I believe taking the Tower tour is the best thing to help new pilots get calm when speaking to an ATC... meeting an Air Traffic Controller gives you the reality check that you surely are speaking to another human being that has an understanding mind, not a machine that requires a certain input or command to work on.

When you realize its just another human that is willing to help, things go on really easy!
 
Thanks for the info, help, and tips.
 
MAKG1 said:
You're taking the knowledge test before starting?

If you're doing well on practice tests, that can work, but it makes a lot more sense if you fly. You don't have to pass the written until your check ride, though some instructors require you to do it pre solo.
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I'm not trying to be rude, but it seems like you have something negative to say about almost every post I have on here. Taking the ground school before starting my actual flight instruction was what worked for me and my schedule. I didn't originally plan to do it this way, but I am glad I did.

I did the King Schools course, read the entire PHAK, and have read quite a few portions of the AIM. I have retained the information very well - yes I understand that some of this material may "make more sense" once I start flying. I don't see why it would be such a big deal to do this before flying.

Not to mention...I think I will be starting my flight instruction in the next few weeks.
 
It isn't a big deal.

And if your practice tests are going well, it will work.

It IS a bit unusual, and some people think it's required. Just trying to save you $100+ in case you thought it was necessary. An hour of flight is a lot more useful than a blown FAA test, even if you're just screwing around.
 
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For my PPL, I left the written to the end and then my CFI and I had to review the areas with mistakes. ~$55 for the hour to review and sign off (score was low 80's) Arguably if I had started training with the same score, everything would have been reviewed in normal training time and I would have a) saved $55 and b) not had test stress for the completion while I was doing checkride profiles.

For my IFR, I took the written as an "entrance exam" before starting the instruction. Would have worked brilliantly if life didn't get in the way and my written expired before I could do the checkride.

Anyway, there are many paths and none is "best" or "right" for everyone.

For that matter, if anything was "best" or "right" for everyone, there would be one airplane called "Airplane" and we'd all be cheated out of talking about Bo's, Cirrus', High Wings, and of course, the ultimate experimentals -- RV's (And before you ask, there are no BAD RV's) :)
 
jimbilly said:
The hardest part for me is just read backs. If I read it back instantly while its fresh in my brain, I forget what I just read back. Damn, I just read it back, what was that squawk code again!! If I jot it down real quick, I feel like I'm leaving them waiting too long.

Other than that it hasn't been an issue really, there aren't that many reasons they'll be calling you and you get used to the repetition.

Like someone else said, throw 'student pilot' on the end of everything and they'll typically make it bite sized for you.
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ever since my instrument training, I write everything down on a kneeboard. It's easy for me to get stuff wrong when I'm trying to memorize more than 2 syllables. :lol:
 
rolivi said:
For my PPL, I left the written to the end and then my CFI and I had to review the areas with mistakes. ~$55 for the hour to review and sign off (score was low 80's) Arguably if I had started training with the same score, everything would have been reviewed in normal training time and I would have a) saved $55 and b) not had test stress for the completion while I was doing checkride profiles.

For my IFR, I took the written as an "entrance exam" before starting the instruction. Would have worked brilliantly if life didn't get in the way and my written expired before I could do the checkride.

Anyway, there are many paths and none is "best" or "right" for everyone.

For that matter, if anything was "best" or "right" for everyone, there would be one airplane called "Airplane" and we'd all be cheated out of talking about Bo's, Cirrus', High Wings, and of course, the ultimate experimentals -- RV's (And before you ask, there are no BAD RV's) :)
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My dad really wants to build an RV9/A :D
 
CC268 said:
My dad really wants to build an RV9/A :D
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Go for it... but once you have fun in an RV, it sorta spoils you when you return to the Certified aircraft.
 
CC268 said:
How long did it take you guys to get comfortable with talking to ATC? I haven't started my flight training yet but talking to ATC seems like it would be so difficult at first.
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You've gotten a lot of great responses. Become a LiveATC addict. Use the app on your phone or listen on your PC. Join Pilotedge and practice in a sim. Of course, do some reading of the AIM to learn the phonetic alphabet and the rest of the basics.

This is something you can do on your own time before starting flying. In fact, it's something that will save you a lot of time and money if you can learn in your own time.
 
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Ladies and Gentlemen, I give you HaroldR, prince of the double negative
 
i live somewhere between klbb and kmaf so if i happen to be in either town and if i have time ill just sit and listen with my scanner.
when im at home, i can hear my local traffic on ctaf and also hear one side of a conversation with pilots talking to ft worth center.
 
CC268 said:
How long did it take you guys to get comfortable with talking to ATC? I haven't started my flight training yet but talking to ATC seems like it would be so difficult at first.
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I trained at at towered airport, so I started on the radio with my first lesson. Don't worry about it, it'll start to come naturally as your training progresses. I stumbled around, my CFI let me and I'm sure the controllers got a chuckle more than once. The funny thing was when my CFI would tell me not to phrase something a particular way, then I'd have than in my head and do exactly what I was told NOT to do. Example: There is no "Runway eighteen", there IS a "Runway one-eight".

Practice active listening. Pay attention to all radio calls, not just yours, and use that to paint a picture of what's going on around you.

There is a lot about flying that seems very overwhelming and intimidating at first but it all gets easier a little bit at a time.
 
Though if you do refer to it as runway eighteen, ATC will know exactly what you mean. It's a faux pas, not a confusion point. Don't get too worried about it.
 
Thanks for the help and tips guys...should start flying here really soon so I will be getting my practice in soon enough!
 
orange said:
There's a really sexy voice female controller at Farmingdale (KFRG), I always imagine her naked and it works like a charm. And it helps talking on the radio too. :lol:
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LOL... There's a ZDV controller I know as an acquaintance who isn't too hard on the eye, and I was totally shocked when I finally flew through her sector (no pun intended, dang it... be good...) one night and she has that "OMG that's HOT" female controller voice...

Even more fun when in that same voice she's asking, "Hey Nate, is that you in Seven Niner Mike?" sounding like Marilyn Monroe's playful voice...

Hahaha... you just know all the other pilots in the sector were like, "He KNOWS that girl?!" Hahaha...

Meanwhile, she's actually really funny and totally a normal person, she just has one of THOSE voices...

She told a story of a co-worker (hint: making well into six figures) who posted a GoFundMe on the bulletin board at ZDV asking other controllers to fund her and her kid's vacation "because she deserved one"... hahaha...

You can imagine the words another female controller might use to describe THAT... :)
 
orange said:
There's a really sexy voice female controller at Farmingdale (KFRG), I always imagine her naked and it works like a charm. And it helps talking on the radio too. :lol:
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Then it's decided. I'm training at KFRG too. :wink2:
 
I started my private pilot in 2014 and in the beginning, the radio was difficult also. its now much easer for 2 reasons. listening to liveatc.net as several has already mentioned and another drill I do that I borrowed from some NLP(Neuro Linquistic Promamming) training). the drill I use from NLP practice puts your physiology into a better fluid state(than "stuck state")so that when you are in the cockpit, either on the taxiway(commuicating with ground)or in the air(communicating with the tower, you can respond much more resourcefully while talking to them as well as doing other tasks. I'm not going to provide the details here of the drill but if anyone is interested just contact via PM. there is no fee/charge involved. be aware that the drill does take some practice to do
 
I was already a controller in the Air Force, so I had that going for me. :D
 
orange said:
There's a really sexy voice female controller at Farmingdale (KFRG), I always imagine her naked and it works like a charm. And it helps talking on the radio too. :lol:
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Hahaha, I never thought if her as sexy, but mostly because she is always yelling at someone on downwind that they are "too close to my final!". I also heard her tell a guy who was having a hard time comprehending her instructions that "It's not that complicated!".
 
onezuludelta said:
Hahaha, I never thought if her as sexy, but mostly because she is always yelling at someone on downwind that they are "too close to my final!". I also heard her tell a guy who was having a hard time comprehending her instructions that "It's not that complicated!".
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My type of gal.....

Calls it like she sees it.....

She have a sister?
 
CC268 said:
That's good to hear...I will check out the liveatc...I have been watching a ton of videos from MzeroA and Mr. Aviation 101 on YouTube
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LiveATC has an app, also. I listen to the regional approach/departure while driving. Love it!
 
onezuludelta said:
Hahaha, I never thought if her as sexy, but mostly because she is always yelling at someone on downwind that they are "too close to my final!". I also heard her tell a guy who was having a hard time comprehending her instructions that "It's not that complicated!".
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They just flying tight patterns or is she a fan of bomber patterns?
 
jimbilly said:
The hardest part for me is just read backs. If I read it back instantly while its fresh in my brain, I forget what I just read back. Damn, I just read it back, what was that squawk code again!! If I jot it down real quick, I feel like I'm leaving them waiting too long.
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You're not. And you can develop a shorthand for it. It's not a "read-back" if you're not reading it. It's more like a "mimic" or "speak back".

Write it down. It'll get faster over time with practice. Use shorthand.

I like drawing hard lines above and below a number for an altitude assignment or leaving the line off the top or bottom if there's no limitation to descend or climb to it, for example.

Up arrow for "climb" if it's not a takeoff and there is the possibility for either a climb or a descent.

Squawk is just four numbers, that one is easy. You know what it is in your chicken scratch because it's a four digit block

I don't use four digits for altitudes. Those are written "flight level" style. 060 for 6000, 090 for 9000, etc.

VOR names and intersections can be a pain. May have to write the word if you're in an unfamiliar area or ask for the identifier specifically.

Scribbling it down in a minimalist / shorthand fashion helps it go faster. As long as you know your own shorthand system... ;)
 
If anyone wants to talk to a controller and find that we're human, come to Tucson and I'll meet you for lunch, I'll even let you pay. ;)
 
mkosmo said:
They just flying tight patterns or is she a fan of bomber patterns?
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TONS of student pilots (including me) doing all kinds of ridiculous things, and I think she just has a stricter definition of how wide her final path is than other controllers, maybe?
 
mkosmo said:
They just flying tight patterns or is she a fan of bomber patterns?
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Probably trying to get close to the tower cab to check her out! :D

I once took my boss, the tower chief (@ an Air Force Base) and his son for an airplane ride. They wanted to fly out to the air base which we did. Of course the guys in the tower knew it was me but didn't know the boss was onboard. After doing a low approach I turned downwind to depart. Abeam the tower cab one of 'em says, hey look out on the catwalk (walkway around the tower cab). We looked and there's one of them mooning me! Boss shook his head and laughed, and I transmitted "hey Pete enjoyed that". No response except "frequency change approved". :D
 
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mscard88 said:
Probably trying to get close to the tower cab to check her out! :D

I once took my boss, the tower chief and his son for an airplane ride. They wanted to fly out to the air base which we did. Of course the guys in the tower knew it was me but didn't know the boss was onboard. After doing a low approach I turned downwind to depart. Abeam the tower cab one of 'em says, hey look out on the catwalk (walkway around the tower cab). We looked and there's one of them mooning me! Boss shook his head and laughed, and I transmitted "hey Pete enjoyed that". No response except "frequency change approved". :D
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Hah, love it.
onezuludelta said:
TONS of student pilots (including me) doing all kinds of ridiculous things, and I think she just has a stricter definition of how wide her final path is than other controllers, maybe?
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Students or not, I'd be ****ed if a controller was trying to tell me how to fly a pattern for any reason other than separation or safety of flight...
 
From a controller perspective, pilots aren't the only ones who get ****ed. It is really annoying when pilots go out to a 4 mile base from a downwind when we are trying to sequence them with other traffic inbound to the airport. I see it all the time. You are taught in private pilot training to wait until the get the 45 degree angle from you landing point to turn base. This is what controllers expect instead of going from the downwind to essentially a 4 miles final. Now that pilot has screwed up the sequence for straight in traffic even though they may have said "turning inside (aircraft) on a 7 mile final. There is separation that controllers are responsible for which includes radar and wake turbulence. Another instance is clearing someone for take off and they spend two minutes on the runway doing God knows what.
 
Timbeck2 said:
From a controller perspective, pilots aren't the only ones who get ****ed. It is really annoying when pilots go out to a 4 mile base from a downwind when we are trying to sequence them with other traffic inbound to the airport. I see it all the time. You are taught in private pilot training to wait until the get the 45 degree angle from you landing point to turn base. This is what controllers expect instead of going from the downwind to essentially a 4 miles final. Now that pilot has screwed up the sequence for straight in traffic even though they may have said "turning inside (aircraft) on a 7 mile final. There is separation that controllers are responsible for which includes radar and wake turbulence. Another instance is clearing someone for take off and they spend two minutes on the runway doing God knows what.
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"N12345, let me know when you've crossed into Mexico."
 
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