You're flying along and your propeller has a structural failure

SixPapaCharlie

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If you are flying and you lose a chunk of it. Not the whole thing but lets say half a blade...

The motor is still going to turn at a high rate of speed but the lack of balance is going to do something pretty dramatic.

Does this sort of thing ever happen?
Would it rip the engine out of the mount, or shake the plane to pieces?

I am thinking losing a portion of a spinning prop has a significantly high probability of disaster. Is it something you can react fast enough to recover?
 
If you are flying and you lose a chunk of it. Not the whole thing but lets say half a blade...

The motor is still going to turn at a high rate of speed but the lack of balance is going to do something pretty dramatic.

Does this sort of thing ever happen?
Would it rip the engine out of the mount, or just shake the plane to pieces?

I am thinking losing a portion of a spinning prop has a significantly high probability of disaster. Is it something you can react fast enough to recover?

Some people get the engine shut down before really bad things happen, others don't. That's why F1 and sport class racers (which tend to shed props) have a safety strap to keep the engine attached to the airframe. Even if the engine is hanging from a strap, it is still better than losing all of that mass.
 
Meh....it does happen....rarely, but it does. Just pull the chute bro....

409Lbefore-600x408.jpg
p8-1.jpg
 
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Not often, but I'd imagine at those RPMs, that much out of balance metal, probably be better to shut it down.
 
Bad things happen fast if you lose a piece of your prop. The larger the piece, the worse the results, and the faster they happen.

If you're lucky, pull the throttle and shake to a landing. If you're a little lucky, the prop,will fall off, and the CG won't shift too far aft for you to land. There was an article a year or so ago about a 172 losing it's prop and landing on a road.

If you're unlucky, you'll lose a big piece of prop, and the imbalance and resulting vibration will tear the engine from the mount. Then you have a severely aft CG for the several seconds left before impact. There's a saying in the RC community: nose heavy flies poorly; tail heavy flies once. Except you don't ride in the model airplane . . .
 
Lost the leading edge while IMC ,vibration was unbelievable, was a little unnerving.
 
This happened to a plane I fly regularly:

http://www.ntsb.gov/_layouts/ntsb.aviation/brief2.aspx?ev_id=20060720X00975&ntsbno=NYC06IA143&akey=1

On June 6, 2006, about 1930 eastern daylight time, a Cessna 172S, N2138W, incurred minor damage when a propeller blade separated during a missed approach at Lawrence Municipal Airport (LWM), Lawrence, Massachusetts. The certificated flight instructor and the certificated commercial pilot (under instruction) were not injured. Visual meteorological conditions prevailed. The local flight was operated on an instrument flight rules flight plan from Mansfield Municipal Airport (1B9), Mansfield, Massachusetts, and was conducted under 14 CFR Part 91.

According to the flight instructor, the flight was a proficiency check for the commercial pilot. The commercial pilot had just flown the VOR RWY 23 approach, and had initiated a missed approach 1/2 mile from the runway due to traffic landing in the opposite direction. Passing through 1,700 feet, a "loud pop" was heard and the airplane began to shake violently. The flight instructor immediately took control of the airplane and shut down the engine to prevent further damage. He then made a Mayday call with his intentions, and glided the airplane to a landing on runway 32.

A postflight examination of the airplane revealed that a McCauley Propeller Systems fixed-pitch propeller blade, part number 1A170E/JHA7660, serial number XH23030, had separated about 12 inches from the center of the hub.

The flight instructor also noted that during the airplane's preflight inspection, both he and the commercial pilot visually inspected the propeller blade, and ran their hands along the leading and trailing edges with no anomalies noted.

According to maintenance records, the most recent 100-hour inspection of the propeller blade was on May 10, 2006, about 53 operating hours before the incident. No anomalies were noted.

The remainder of the separated propeller blade was forwarded to the Safety Board for metallurgical examination. According to the Materials Laboratory Factual Report, the fracture was oriented in a chordwise direction, and there were crack arrest lines along the fracture face, typical of a fatigue crack, emanating from an indentation at the blade's leading edge. The crack propagated through approximately 50 percent of the fracture face. Another crack arrest band was noted beyond the first area, which had fibrous features typical of an overstress separation. There was no mention of corrosion in the report.

A chemical analysis of the propeller blade at Cessna Aircraft Company revealed that the hardness and chemical composition of the blade met the requirements of the applicable engineering drawing.
 
Exactly, if feels like you're in a paint shaker, mixture to ICO
 
I'm picturing what happens when my washing machine is unbalanced then imagining 180hp of motor attached to all that.
 
If the engine and airframe come from together then definitely pull the chute. One case where the chute is 100% your best/only option.
 
So Bryan.....were you flat outta nightmares for dreams?

Someone posted a video of an acro plane that lost its prop.
I got to wondering if that happened to us just putting along, how would we handle it then I got to thinking what if just half broke off.

Our planes are somewhat fragile and I couldn't come up with a scenario where the plane didn't just destroy itself.
 
Generally it's very bad if this happens in a single. You need to pull throttle and mixture immediately if you want a chance at not having the engine depart the airframe. But it probably will.

In a twin, it's more surviveable because even if the engine falls off, it doesn't screw up your CG as much.

Don't lose sleep over it.
 
There's a vid of an aerobatics dude who's prop shreds mid flight. Cut the engine asap and land. Or let the engine shred then CAPSD.
 
Some people get the engine shut down before really bad things happen, others don't. That's why F1 and sport class racers (which tend to shed props) have a safety strap to keep the engine attached to the airframe. Even if the engine is hanging from a strap, it is still better than losing all of that mass.

I want an engine safety strap.
Where do I get an engine safety strap?
 
I want an engine safety strap.
Where do I get an engine safety strap?
Thread a steel cable around the cylinders and something structural in the airframe - that way when the mounts break the engine flops around but remains in close formation. That avoids the lawn dart thing.
 
Thread a steel cable around the cylinders and something structural in the airframe - that way when the mounts break the engine flops around but remains in close formation. That avoids the lawn dart thing.

Actually... it is a TAIL dart thing....:sad::sad::sad:
 
The King Air at my home field shanked part of the prop off. They got lucky that it didn't pierce the fuselage.... but boy, I would have hated to be on the ground with that thing hurling towards me. The FAA got involved. It was a pretty big deal.
 
I want an engine safety strap.
Where do I get an engine safety strap?

Lowes

Seriously, I wouldn't worry about it. The probability is very low of something going wrong. If you have a composite prop, it's even lower. Not too long into Aztec ownership I took a chunk out of my prop the size of my thumb on a gravel runway. Flew it another 800 hours or so (after having it properly addressed by the A&Ps, but it was within limits). No issues.
 
Lowes

Seriously, I wouldn't worry about it. The probability is very low of something going wrong. If you have a composite prop, it's even lower. Not too long into Aztec ownership I took a chunk out of my prop the size of my thumb on a gravel runway. Flew it another 800 hours or so (after having it properly addressed by the A&Ps, but it was within limits). No issues.

Did you end up having to re-balance (dynamic balance) the prop?

The Aztec props seem to have a propensity for picking up nicks and dents, and I have noticed mine doesn't seem to run as smoothly as it used to, and wondering if the cumulative effect of dressing the prop for these is the culprit?
 
Did you end up having to re-balance (dynamic balance) the prop?

The Aztec props seem to have a propensity for picking up nicks and dents, and I have noticed mine doesn't seem to run as smoothly as it used to, and wondering if the cumulative effect of dressing the prop for these is the culprit?

That's a funny thing.

Dynamic balancing is not required. Per the Hartzell service manual, the amount of material removed from my prop was acceptable. I flew it a long time that way. My A&Ps advised me not to take it to get dynamically balanced, because they said any shop would red tag the prop for the chunks gone, even though it was within limits as confirmed by Hartzell.

About 500 or so hours later, the engine mount on that same side broke in two. 10,000 hour 40+ year old airframe. Related? Who knows. That side always was a bit rougher running.

I had the 310 dynamically balanced a few years ago, and my A&P kept on dressing the props "for good measure" at annual, even though I told him not to. It is rougher than it was, so I should probably redo it. My opinion is that you probably should dynamically balance the props on your Aztec.

The Aztec's props do get nicked easier due to the plane being pretty low to the ground.
 
That's what happened to the guy we rescued on Mt Whitney some 16 months ago.

Helluva story, got the crap beaten out of him, overnighted in freezing temperatures, and still had the presence of mind and sheer cojones to signal rescuers despite a broken ankle, broken face, and broken ribs.

https://www.facebook.com/PanamintSprings/posts/748811938517430

I don't know if he's right, but the pilot thinks the engine would have shaken itself off its mounts even at idle power, and he credits a short glide with saving his life.
 
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That's what happened to the guy we rescued on Mt Whitney some 16 months ago.

Helluva story, got the crap beaten out of him, overnighted in freezing temperatures, and still had the presence of mind and sheer cojones to signal rescuers despite a broken ankle, broken face, and broken ribs.

https://www.facebook.com/PanamintSprings/posts/748811938517430

That guy is a friend of several of my friends, and I was about to post up about it. He said it was so violent he could barely get to the throttle or mixture. He got really really lucky.
 
The crash of ASA Flight 529, an Embraer 120, was caused by a blade separation in flight. The engine was torn from its mounts but remained attached to the aircraft.

It created so much drag the aircraft could not maintain altitude. The crew, including the flight attendant, performed their jobs heroically which allowed some passengers to survive. The captain died from burns, but after fifty some surgeries the FO returned to flying duties.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantic_Southeast_Airlines_Flight_529
 
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Meh....it does happen....rarely, but it does. Just pull the chute bro....

p8-1.jpg

Now that pic caught my eye; I took it! I was flying this C-310 when the prop came apart, Nov. 1991. Photo data tag says it came from Aopa.org; I wonder where they found it? I must have posted it somewhere long ago and forgot about it. No biggie.

When the hub split open and shed two blades, the shaking was so violent that it shredded the cowling and spinner, broke the starter off, broke all 4 engine mounts, cracked the engine nose case. The only thing that kept the engine from departing was the cradle type mount on the 310; love that airplane, it saved my ass that night...
 
So it threw two blades and it happened at night as well?

Hats off to you, sir.
 
Yes Bryan, this sort of thing does happen.
One of them is wing broke off during the flypast this will be done due to design&structural weakness. Had done with one of my friends. It will be horrible while you are alone and its done in the middle of your journey.
 
So it threw two blades and it happened at night as well?

Hats off to you, sir.

Thanks. I was departing St. Paul, MN in the wee morning hours on a canceled check run; luckily I was light with maybe 50 lbs of freight in the back and full tip tanks (100 gal), so the ship flew okay back around the patch for a safe landing. Glad I didn't have any bank work bags in the nose, it would have been a flurry of paper everywhere when that blade came rumbling through! The blade also cut through the Janitrol heater in the nose, which was running at the time but didn't catch fire. Methinks I got really, really lucky to walk away from that one...
 
Airport I worked at, guy in a Baron lost about a 3 inch chunk off the tip of the blade midflight. Said it was running rough and shut it down. Didn't realize he lost part of the blade till he landed.
 
Thats what I hate about sitting near the front of the Otter when I skydive. Im sitting RIGHT by that spinning prop thinking about a blade coming off...
 
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