Waiting to Start Training for 5 Years

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janikpilot

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janikpilot
I believe this is my first post here, so I would like to say hello. :)

I am in a kinda sticky situation, and I would like to know what you guys think I should do. I first became interested in flying back in '07, when I downloaded MS Flight simulator as a kid, and was hooked. Since then I have flown over 3000 hours on the simulator. I have wanted to get my license since I was 12, when my uncle first took me for an intro flight. However, I have a problem.

I am currently 16, and a junior at one of the hardest high schools in America. I am enrolled in 6 college level classes - Physics is my only 'normal' high school class. Since I spend so much time studying, I don't have any time to get a job. Which leaves me without any source of income to actually start training. I have done a lot of research on this, and realize there are basically 3 ways to fund flight training - the military, scholarships, and a job. Since getting a job is out of the question as of right now, and joining the military is something I definitely do not want to do, I am left with relying on scholarships to fund my training. Even then, a majority of flight training scholarships are for students who have already started training. It's hard for me to do so. For the ones that are for non-students (i.e. the Leroy W Homer Jr. Scholarship I will be applying to this October) favor those which are pursuing aviation as a career. I am not, as I am currently pursuing a career in Computer Science.

My idea right now is to get a summer job this summer, and just work as much as possible to fund as much training as I can. I already have $3,000 saved up since I was 12. So my question to all of you is, what would you do if you were me? I feel like if I do start training this summer, I may not have a chance to finish it before funds run out, since I'll have to quit my job when school starts. Senior year should be a little easier for me, so I will have time for flight training. I am not sure if I will have time for a job on top of it. That brings up another issue though - I really want to attend the Georgia Institute of Technology, which is stuck right by Hartsfield-Jackson Intl, and as a result there is no flight training around for miles. If I do complete my training as a high schooler, I don't know how often I will be able to practice in college. So I am kinda in a very sticky situation, and I would like to know what you guys think. I am not trying to come off as impatient, but honestly after 5 years it gets hard not to. It helps to talk about this though, I always enjoy a conversation with aviation enthusiasts.
 
Welcome to POA!

My high school was "hard" also. They had metal detectors at the doors to check for guns and knives. If you didn't have one, they gave you one! We learned first hand about the "balance of power". :rofl:
 
Cant even find time for a sat or sun only job? At some of the smaller (grass strips) they will sometimes work with younger students and trade flight time for cutting grass, cleaning up, ect.
 
This is what I would do:

Start as soon as you can. One thing that should happen relatively soon (10-12 hours), is you should be able to solo. This means you can go up any time your CFI says the weather is ok. This will allow you to practice a bit while you wait to collect more funds to continue.

Then I would ask for flight lesson graduation money from everyone, and hope that the money you get, plus whatever you can earn over the summer and weekends, covers the difference, and finish up over the summer between high school and college.

You want to finish before you move, or move before you start.
 
Welcome to Pilots of America.

I'm guessing that $3000 will buy you in the neighborhood of 20 hours flight time. You can find a flight school at DeKalb which is pretty expensive, or you might find an independent, cheaper instructor there or Fulton or Clayton County. The best way to find out is to go to the FBO onfield and hang around and ask.

Even as bright and enthusiastic as you are, you won't get your Private Pilot certificate with fewer than 35 to 40 hours - by law. Until you are 17 - by law.

You can go get a glider license, cheaper, faster, younger now. That will give you so much practical knowledge of what your BODY needs to know that you cannot get with a simulator that it is certainly worth the effort.
Private Pilot-Glider
After solo, student pilots may qualify as a Private Pilot-Glider provided they:


  • Are at least 16 years of age; and
  • Have logged at least 10 hours of flight time in a glider and that flight time must include at least 20 total glider flights, and
  • Have 2 hours of solo flight time in a glider, and
  • Have passed the FAA written examination; and
  • Have passed the flight exam with a FAA Examiner.

If you don't want to go that route, I suggest you go for a Recreational Pilot license, so that you can fly without an instructor sign-off after you solo. That can be gotten with 30 hours flight time. Then. when you have the next opportunity, you can start moving up to Private Pilot, Instrument, Commercial, ATP. (I just skipped a lot of intermediate steps in that list.)

There have been a number of very bright, enthusiastic young men on this board who have been bumping up against the legal age limit. One or more should be along soon to give you some personal guidance.

Once again, welcome.
 
This may come across as mean, but it is not intended to be that way.

You say you have 3000 hours of sim time. If you are still using the sim, consider cutting back, waaaay back, and use that time for a job. And to state the obvious, a part-time job now will help prepare you for college and later full-time employment.
 
Good suggestion Bob. If you have time for MSFS, which I don't think is very transferable to real flight anyway, stop MSFS and get a job.
 
Anthony said:
Good suggestion Bob. If you have time for MSFS, which I don't think is very transferable to real flight anyway, stop MSFS and get a job.
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Not sure what he is doing, but you can learn a lot with MSFS or x-plane if you use it as a training tool.

Not so much if it's used as just a game.
 
Go to ssa.org see if there is a glider operation nearby. 3,000 can get you a glider license. Best way to start anyway, and as someday you will learn the most fun. If you cant swing that, all your time is with hardcore academics then my advice is finish highschool doing what you are doing get into college then defer and do a gap year screwing around and learning to fly.
 
Mafoo said:
Not sure what he is doing, but you can learn a lot with MSFS or x-plane if you use it as a training tool.

Not so much if it's used as just a game.
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I've seen that claim. There are a couple of things where it could help, such as VOR navigation or instrument procedures.

Most of primary training is so different from MSFS that it is an obstacle. You are going to have to unlearn quite a bit.

If you can spend 750 hours a year on a simulator, you can spend 700 on a part time job instead. You have to choose priorities. If the simulator is your priority, you don't have time to learn to fly.

If Georgia Tech is your priority, maybe waiting a few years is a better idea. It's proximity to KATL is irrelevant to general aviation. You will almost certainly NEVER land there. It's the busiest airport in the world, and a dinky 172 approaching at half the speed of the airliners will not be welcome.
 
I would question your suitability. If you really want to fly, and are as smart as you claim, you will find a way. Rexamine your priorities. OBTW, IMHO "logging" time on a game is mental masturbation.
 
BTW, put on your flame-retardent suit when asking some questions on this board. There is some tendency for some opinions to be couched pretty strongly. Don't let the warfare get you down.
 
Mafoo said:
Not sure what he is doing, but you can learn a lot with MSFS or x-plane if you use it as a training tool.

Not so much if it's used as just a game.
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Way back when, when I did my PPL, I did use MSFS for cross countries, and getting the concept of using VOR's and determining position, etc, and flying appraches. Yes, it can be valuable for navigation, and instrumentation, however for "flying the plane", I don't think there's much that transfers. I think the time would be better spent hanging around an airport or better yet earning money for flying lessons.
 
MAKG1 said:
I've seen that claim. There are a couple of things where it could help, such as VOR navigation or instrument procedures.

Most of primary training is so different from MSFS that it is an obstacle. You are going to have to unlearn quite a bit.

If you can spend 750 hours a year on a simulator, you can spend 700 on a part time job instead. You have to choose priorities. If the simulator is your priority, you don't have time to learn to fly.
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Sounds like he started flying in MSFS at 12, so those 3000 hours could have come before he could get a job (i think it's 15).

If he is still using the simulator that much, then I agree he should get off of it and try and find a job. I say "try", because right now if your a kid, finding work is kind of tuff.

As for what you can do with MSFS, you can get very familiar with a lot of the procedures. For example, a preflight check I found with a quick search on youtube (not sure why he didn't adjust the attitude indicator that was off)

 
Mafoo said:
As for what you can do with MSFS, you can get very familiar with a lot of the procedures. For example, a preflight check I found with a quick search on youtube (not sure why he didn't adjust the attitude indicator that was off)
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That's hit or miss. There is a lot of variability in avionics and other installed equipment (e.g., GPS, strobes, transponder, etc.), and two different start procedures for 172s. And I'm not sure how you'll use MSFS to figure out if the fuel is contaminated or if there are bugs or other obstructions in the pitot tube or stall warning opening, or birds nests in the intake, exhaust or cooling port. And so on. That one appears to be factory-installed avionics in a 172N. I've never seen a 172N that still has its factory original avionics in it.

There are also a few errors in that video. Like turning the beacon on after run-up, and skipping the alternator check. That's one way bad habits form.
 
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Anthony said:
It depends on the individual. I didn't have trouble with it, but I knew people that did.
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I didn't have trouble with it either. One thing you and I have in common, is we flew flight simulators ;)
 
3,000 hours on flight sim? :yikes: That's more time than most of the board members have in the air. I'm going to go ahead and assume that was an exaggeration!
 
PBristolJr said:
3,000 hours on flight sim? :yikes: That's more time than most of the board members have in the air. I'm going to go ahead and assume that was an exaggeration!
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Most hard core gammers easily put a thousand hours a year into whatever they play. 3,000 hours in a flight sim is a lot however, but I am sure some have done it in the time span of 4 years.
 
Such is life -- you don't always get what you want when you want it. You'll learn to prioritize and work for what you want. Sometimes it takes time.

In my case I prioritized -- dropped out of high school (took too much of my time), worked more hours, and paid for my private training myself with cash.
 
tonycondon said:
i'd suggest finding an easier high school :)
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I wouldn't. Being challenged at school is very important.

It's another story if it is too hard.

Easy high school does everyone involved a disservice, especially the student.

I've witnessed a large number of first year university students having massive problems due to needing to work really hard for the first time in their lives. If he succeeds into getting into GATech or any other well regarded engineering school, it's quite likely that almost everyone in his circle will be in that boat.

When you fill a class full of the best and brightest, half of them will be below the median.
 
well in my opinion if he doesn't have enough time away from homework to hold down a part time job then its too hard. but thats just me.

i managed to get good grades in high school while working 4-5 nights a week and get into engineering school, where i managed to get good grades and graduate with a Multi ATP and a couple thousand hrs of flight time to boot.

my opinion is he'll learn more about doing work by having a real job instead of doing 4 hrs of homework every night.

MAKG1 said:
I wouldn't. Being challenged at school is very important.

It's another story if it is too hard.

Easy high school does everyone involved a disservice, especially the student.

I've witnessed a large number of first year university students having massive problems due to needing to work really hard for the first time in their lives. If he succeeds into getting into GATech or any other well regarded engineering school, it's quite likely that almost everyone in his circle will be in that boat.

When you fill a class full of the best and brightest, half of them will be below the median.
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tonycondon said:
well in my opinion if he doesn't have enough time away from homework to hold down a part time job then its too hard. but thats just me.
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He has time to devote several hundred hours a year to a flight sim. It's a little hard to make the case that homework is occupying all of his time.
 
AuntPeggy said:
BTW, put on your flame-retardent suit when asking some questions on this board. There is some tendency for some opinions to be couched pretty strongly. Don't let the warfare get you down.
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No kidding. Some of these guys really gave this kid a "warm" welcome to the board. I guess being a "tool" is just part of the pilot persona.
 
jesse said:
Such is life -- you don't always get what you want when you want it. You'll learn to prioritize and work for what you want. Sometimes it takes time.

In my case I prioritized -- dropped out of high school (took too much of my time), worked more hours, and paid for my private training myself with cash.
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Now this is great advice. Just drop out of high school and all your dreams will come true.:confused:
 
LJS1993 said:
No kidding. Some of these guys really gave this kid a "warm" welcome to the board. I guess being a "tool" is just part of the pilot persona.
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I don't think anyone has berated this kid, and many alternatives for time use, and prioritization have been given, and maybe some constructive criticism. If you just coddle someone, your basically being dishonest to make them "feel" good. Which may be what its all about in La La Land, but not in the real world.

Which do you want? For him to feel good about looking for free money to become a pilot and not getting there, or the personal satisfaction, and self esteem gained by earning it?
 
LJS1993 said:
Yes and I'm sure he's the norm right?
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no he's one data point. other data points of successful high school dropouts are my grandpa and dave thomas. no doubt there are many other high school dropouts who would fall into the "unsuccessful" column though.
 
Well, it looks like the welcome you've received here has been more bickering than anything, so I'll try to add something useful. I was in exactly the same position as you were--in an extremely tough high school desperate to fly during junior year (and well before...the bug bit me when I was 9 or so). At that point, I had absolutely no time to fly, much less work to make enough money, because schoolwork took literally all of my available time.

I got a job between junior and senior years of high school to pay for my sport pilot's license. The summer I worked, I made it nearly to solo, because between weather, airplane, and instructor availability, scheduling was tough. The next summer, I finished my sport certificate with the leftover money. Then, the summer between freshman and sophomore years of high school, I got another job that took care of upgrading from sport to private. I'm currently a sophomore at the University of Michigan studying aerospace engineering, and I don't fly here, because without a car it's tough to get to the Ann Arbor airport in a reasonable amount of time. I'll probably be living off campus next year, so I'll most likely have a car, meaning it'll be a lot easier to fly here.

Don't get discouraged, though--you can definitely do it! It'll take perseverance and hard work during the times you're flying, but if you want it enough, you'll make it happen.

Feel free to PM me if you have any questions about the route I took or really about anything. I'm happy to help you out however I can!

Oh and P.S. You should go to Michigan instead of GA Tech...we have a fantastic aerospace engineering program and literally everything else to go with it. I absolutely love it here :). Go blue!
 
janikpilot said:
I really want to attend the Georgia Institute of Technology, which is stuck right by Hartsfield-Jackson Intl, and as a result there is no flight training around for miles.
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I went to Georgia Tech too, and this is a non-issue. Hartsfield isn't even the closest airport to Tech. Fulton County (KFTY) and Peachtree Dekalb (KPDK) are closer and have flight training, as does Cobb County (KRYY) where I did my training while a student at Tech. Lookup the Yellow Jacket Flying Club -- I believe they fly out of Fulton County which is only 8 or so miles away from campus and offers a reasonably inexpensive way to get your certificate.
 
Just a comment on the flight simulator before I continue, I may have forgotten to mention I have not used the simulator since freshman year. So I haven't actually 'flown' on MSFS in over two years. I really don't appreciate the criticism for things like "Oh you have time for a simulator but not a job?" Do you really think I would sit on a computer game for hours a day if I could easily just get a job and pay for real training instead? 5 years is a really long time, only the first 3 were spent on a flight simulator, BEFORE I could legally apply for a job. Once I was old enough to actually get one, I was more concerned about getting into a good high school and getting good grades, since that's what every friggin' adult tells you. Yes, I do wish I could go to an easier high school and have a normal life, with time for a job and a social life. But I can't. So please don't suggest doing so. And MSFS as a training tool is actually pretty useful, but I won't get into the technicalities of that. Moving on.

The only problem with getting a job at an airport is, around my area there are only larger general aviation airports, where rules are strictly enforced. I actually went around the local airport this summer and offered to wash airplanes, and was rejected by every person I asked. I have also personally called every business on the airport to ask if they are hiring, to no avail.

The nearest glider port to me is on the other side of the state, so that is out of the question. I live on the eastern coast of South Florida, where gliders are almost unheard of. So just the money to drive to a gliderport for a lesson would cost almost as much as just flying a powered aircraft near my home.

I will keep looking around for a part time job on saturdays. Hopefully somebody around here is willing to hire somebody for only one day a week.

It's proximity to KATL is irrelevant to general aviation. You will almost certainly NEVER land there. It's the busiest airport in the world, and a dinky 172 approaching at half the speed of the airliners will not be welcome.
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MAKG, that is exactly what I meant by "there is no flight training around for miles."

Yes, being at a challenging high school is tough, but I know it will pay off in the end. I am already basically enrolled in college, so once I actually get there, it will be a lot easier than most of the people that have not experienced it yet. Plus I'll already have taken most of the credits that freshman take. So dropping out of high school is out of the question.

If I did not address your response, it is due to me not having any follow up questions. I do appreciate each and every response, so thank you.
 
dukeblue219 said:
I went to Georgia Tech too, and this is a non-issue. Hartsfield isn't even the closest airport to Tech. Fulton County (KFTY) and Peachtree Dekalb (KPDK) are closer and have flight training, as does Cobb County (KRYY) where I did my training while a student at Tech. Lookup the Yellow Jacket Flying Club -- I believe they fly out of Fulton County which is only 8 or so miles away from campus and offers a reasonably inexpensive way to get your certificate.
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No way - really?! :D I will definitely join that if I go there, thank you so much! I think you just made my final decision to attend GaTech, now I just hope I get accepted there.
 
Well, my advice on this might not be popular. But I would concentrate on school and keep flying the sim just for fun. Graduate and get a good job then you can fly all you want.
 
i have two good friends who were in the georgia tech flying club. seems like a well run operation.
 
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