True cause of global warming

Geico266 said:
So it is okay to put an innocent person to death? You, your brother, father, neighbor sentenced to death for a crime they did not commit? And put to death by an enlightened society?

You passed over that little tidbit pretty quick. IMHO any system that puts one innocent person to death should be abolished and replaced with life without parole.
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As mentioned earlier....15,000-20,000 murders a year, 46 executions. I think we're being awfully careful to avoid those errors. You're more likely to die from falling space junk than to be wrongfully accused of murder, much less charged, tried and sentenced to death.

Have you or anyone you know been wrongly accused of murder?? Me neither.
 
The criminals that usually are put to death, typically have a rap sheet of violent crime a mile long. Appeal, after appeal, after appeal and years, and years of analysis of evidence, especially now with modern DNA evidence presents a very clear case.

We argue about killing career violent rapists, murderers, and serial killers yet kill thousands of innocents.
 
LDJones said:
Have you or anyone you know been wrongly accused of murder?? Me neither.
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Somebody here has a relative who was wrongly convicted of murder then released. There was a post about that very recently (within the week).
 
Everskyward said:
Somebody here has a relative who was wrongly convicted of murder then released. There was a post about that very recently (within the week).
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Good...our system worked, then. So now we have one. Others?
 
LDJones said:
Good...our system worked, then. So now we have one. Others?
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I don't think it worked very well to begin with. You wouldn't think so either if you were that person. Besides, he was lucky. He probably had more support than many people do. The problem is that people who are falsely convicted are usually not sympathetic figures and it's hard to raise money for their defense. They are not children or puppies.
 
Everskyward said:
I don't think it worked very well to begin with. You wouldn't think so either if you were that person. Besides, he was lucky. He probably had more support than many people do. The problem is that people who are falsely convicted are usually not sympathetic figures and it's hard to raise money for their defense. They are not children or puppies.
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You and I know being falsely accused of murder in this country is still an incredibly rare event, and defeating it when innocent a high probability. Nor does the lack of a DP change the problem of a false accusation.
 
Tom-D said:
We need a solution to gain energy independence, and in so doing replace the O2 generating forests that are being cut.

and Algae will do that. North America's largest producer of O2 is now the algae in the southern swamps.
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Hydrogen production and fuel cells will do that as well, PLUS give us fresh water which is more important than anything else.
 
LDJones said:
You and I know being falsely accused of murder in this country is still an incredibly rare event, and defeating it when innocent a high probability.
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I don't think it's that rare and as others have said, even one mistake is too many. Actually I don't the the government should be executing people at all but that is another question.

I guess you have not read the article I posted in SZ about a year ago called "Trial by Fire".
 
Geico266 said:
So it is okay to put an innocent person to death? You, your brother, father, neighbor sentenced to death for a crime they did not commit? And put to death by an enlightened society?

You passed over that little tidbit pretty quick. IMHO any system that puts one innocent person to death should be abolished and replaced with life without parole.
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I conceded your concern for the innocents.

What about cases were those is no reasonable doubt -- confession, witnesses, evidence, circumstances -- the works?

What if we had captured Osama?
 
Everskyward said:
I don't think it's that rare and as others have said, even one mistake is too many. Actually I don't the the government should be executing people at all but that is another question.

I guess you have not read the article I posted in SZ about a year ago called "Trial by Fire".
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I can find merit in the "one is too many" argument. I believe one abortion is too many. Ever wonder if we've already aborted the researcher who may have discovered a cure for cancer or Alzheimer's? I'll gladly warehouse a few dozen murders each year to save 1.2M innocents.
 
dmccormack said:
I conceded your concern for the innocents.

What about cases were those is no reasonable doubt -- confession, witnesses, evidence, circumstances -- the works?

What if we had captured Osama?
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I can hear the counter arguments already....Confessions are always beaten out of the accused and Osama had PR.
 
Everskyward said:
Good for you, I don't think most people would.
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What? The compassionate Left wouldn't step up to the plate?? I'm shocked. We need unlimited unemployment benefits and free healthcare for all, but no one would give an unwanted child a home??
 
LDJones said:
What? The compassionate Left wouldn't step up to the plate?? I'm shocked. We need unlimited unemployment benefits and free healthcare for all, but no one would give an unwanted child a home??
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I don't see it as a left or right thing. I know people on both sides who have adopted and people on both sides who do not want more children, even their own.
 
Everskyward said:
I don't see it as a left or right thing. I know people on both sides who have adopted and people on both sides who do not want more children, even their own.
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So if we didn't kill them, they'd be running the streets?

Ok.
 
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LDJones said:
So if didn't kill them, they'd be running the streets?

Ok.
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It's a good possibility. If you don't think you can raise children don't have them. I don't see how this has anything to do with the death penalty anyway. It's not the government telling someone to get an abortion. I would not support that position at all.
 
Everskyward said:
It's a good possibility. If you don't think you can raise children don't have them. I don't see how this has anything to do with the death penalty anyway. It's not the government telling someone to get an abortion. I would not support that position at all.
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Would you support China's policy of " you have more than 2 kids we shoot ya"

Plenty of incentive to get sterile quickly.
 
Everskyward said:
It's a good possibility. If you don't think you can raise children don't have them. I don't see how this has anything to do with the death penalty anyway. It's not the government telling someone to get an abortion. I would not support that position at all.
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Hmmmm...so prior to Roe the streets were running wild with unwanted kids?

Only link to DP is how we value life....innocent vs. Not so innocent.

Glad to hear forced abortions are still off the table for some.
 
LDJones said:
Only link to DP is how we value life....innocent vs. Not so innocent.
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It also depends how we define life and the rights of the mother. I know we do not agree on this plus this is not SZ so I won't say any more.
 
Everskyward said:
Show me where that is China's policy.
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That isn't correct. It's a one-child limit, with fines and possible forced sterilization after two. If two people who have no siblings marry they are allowed two children.

Now there are a host of other reasons for which they WILL kill their citizens, but two kids isn't one of them.
 
LDJones said:
Now there are a host of other reasons for which they WILL kill their citizens, but two kids isn't one of them.
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That's the way I understand it too. It was Tom who made the statement about killing you if you had more than two.
 
Everskyward said:
It also depends how we define life and the rights of the mother. I know we do not agree on this plus this is not SZ so I won't say any more.
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Yep...and when rights attach in the womb, which today is schizophrenic at best.
 
Everskyward said:
That's the way I understand it too. It was Tom who made the statement about killing you if you had more than two.
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Yes, I understood that and should have made it clear I was agreeing with you on the misstatement of Chinese policy.
 
LDJones said:
The adoption lines are still pretty long. So, yes....I would if needed.
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Which adoption lines? The ones at the orphanages or the agencies? Do you want a black crack baby? There's plenty of them up for adoption right now...

If I get some pretty white girl pregnant, there will be no abortion, no.... That kid is going on the auction block. They're good for a quarter million $$$....
 
LDJones said:
Yes, there's been outright fraud and Mann in particular has been called on it numerous times, as have others.
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http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2010/jul/02/michael-mann-cleared
...The four-month internal investigation by Pennsylvania State University found no evidence for charges made by climate sceptics that Mann had violated university ethics. The committee cleared Mann of the much more serious charges of falsifying and manipulating data last February...​

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/02/24/climategate-investigation_1_n_827820.html
A new investigation into the 'Climategate' controversy has exonerated U.S. scientists of any wrongdoing. The probe was conducted by the U.S. Commerce Department's inspector general at the request of Sen. James Inhofe (R-Okla.)....​

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2010/jul/08/muir-russell-climategate-climate-science
... Sir Muir Russell, the senior civil servant who led a six-month inquiry into the affair, said the "rigour and honesty" of the scientists at the Climatic Research Unit (CRU) at the University of East Anglia (UEA) were not in doubt. His investigation concluded they did not subvert the peer review process to censor criticism and that key data was freely available and could be used by any "competent" researcher...​

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/print...ist-cleared-in-u-s-data-altering-inquiry.html
Michael Mann, a Pennsylvania researcher who’s been a target of climate-change skeptics, was cleared of wrongdoing by U.S. investigators in the flap surrounding e-mails hacked from a U.K. university.

Finding no “evidence of research misconduct,” the Arlington, Virginia-based National Science Foundation closed its inquiry into Mann...​

-harry
 
LDJones said:
Hmmmm...so prior to Roe the streets were running wild with unwanted kids?

Only link to DP is how we value life....innocent vs. Not so innocent.

Glad to hear forced abortions are still off the table for some.
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Actually, there were many illegal abortions being performed in backrooms by individuals who were interested in the money and were not concerned about proper medical facilities and procedures performed by qualified practitioners. Many women were butchered and died in the process.

Of course on the bright side you could say that if these women survived but were left sterile then at least they couldn't have any more.
 
Gmaper said:
Actually, there were many illegal abortions being performed in backrooms by individuals who were interested in the money and were not concerned about proper medical facilities and procedures performed by qualified practitioners. Many women were butchered and died in the process.

Of course on the bright side you could say that if these women survived but were left sterile then at least they couldn't have any more.
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Another canard.
 
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Gmaper said:
Actually, there were many illegal abortions being performed in backrooms by individuals who were interested in the money and were not concerned about proper medical facilities and procedures performed by qualified practitioners. Many women were butchered and died in the process.

Of course on the bright side you could say that if these women survived but were left sterile then at least they couldn't have any more.
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And now about as many are butchered in clean and sterile environments.

http://www.whatyouknowmightnotbeso.com/bad-drs.html
 
mantakos said:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2010/jul/02/michael-mann-cleared
...The four-month internal investigation by Pennsylvania State University found no evidence for charges made by climate sceptics that Mann had violated university ethics. The committee cleared Mann of the much more serious charges of falsifying and manipulating data last February...​

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/02/24/climategate-investigation_1_n_827820.html
A new investigation into the 'Climategate' controversy has exonerated U.S. scientists of any wrongdoing. The probe was conducted by the U.S. Commerce Department's inspector general at the request of Sen. James Inhofe (R-Okla.)....​

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2010/jul/08/muir-russell-climategate-climate-science
... Sir Muir Russell, the senior civil servant who led a six-month inquiry into the affair, said the "rigour and honesty" of the scientists at the Climatic Research Unit (CRU) at the University of East Anglia (UEA) were not in doubt. His investigation concluded they did not subvert the peer review process to censor criticism and that key data was freely available and could be used by any "competent" researcher...​

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/print...ist-cleared-in-u-s-data-altering-inquiry.html
Michael Mann, a Pennsylvania researcher who’s been a target of climate-change skeptics, was cleared of wrongdoing by U.S. investigators in the flap surrounding e-mails hacked from a U.K. university.

Finding no “evidence of research misconduct,” the Arlington, Virginia-based National Science Foundation closed its inquiry into Mann...​

-harry
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So the fraudsters investigated themselves and found themselves innocent.

Mann's less than honest approach to his climate work is legend.

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2011/06/02/manns-hockey-stick-climategate-and-foi-in-a-nutshell/
 
Tom-D said:
You can view that in two ways. man has little effect on the atmosphere, or .1% is a big deal.
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You seem to be excluding the possibility that man's effect on CO2 is more significant than his effect on O2. Since O2 is about 21% of the atmosphere by volume, and CO2 is about 0.04%, it takes a LOT less added CO2 to make a significant pecentage difference.
 
Geico266 said:
The man made global warming myth was created to justify research grants, carbon taxes, Co2 regulation, and to control and slow economic development in wealthy countries. It has nothing to do with protecting the environment, and everthing to do with wealth distribution and socialism.

Man made global warming is the greatest man made myth.
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I hope you'll pardon me for not taking all those assertions on faith.
 
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