VFR EFB?

[Tarheel Pilot]

Can anyone recommend a good Electronic Flight Bag for VFR flights? Here is my list of requirements.

• Sectionals either on the HD or downloadable
• Airport Directories (either HD or downloadable)
• Flight Planning software
• A Notepad program so I can jot down notes (Like to had, but not required)
• Either a physical or virtual QWERTY keyboard.

Any suggestions?

 

[TMetzinger]

Foreflight for the iPAD is very nice and does all of this pretty well.

Another option if you've already got a touchscreen PC (like I do) is Essential Flight's Chartflier.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

ForeFlight on the iPad.

In fact, even the note pad is built in to ForeFlight, so you won't need to use the separate note pad program that comes on the iPad.

 

[denverpilot]

In fact, even the note pad is built in to ForeFlight, so you won't need to use the separate note pad program that comes on the iPad.

Agreed. And I use the heck out of that Scratchpad feature.

At first I thought it looked like crayon chicken-scratch, but after forcing myself to use it for a while to do things like copy down ATIS information, it's grown on me. Can flip back to it anytime, or hit "Clear" and wipe the screen for something new. If I REALLY need to keep something interesting I can use the iPad's built in screenshot capability if I can do the "death pinch" and hit the Home button and the Sleep button at the same time, while still flying the plane.

My real kneeboard hasn't been out of the bag in a number of flights now. Scratchpad replaced it.

I still carry the dead-tree-loaded kneeboard though, within easy reach in the Brightline just behind the pax seat, or if I'm trying to ditch the bag itself, just stuffed between the seats, on top of the fire extinguisher, just in case. The real pens/pencil are in there too.

 

[jason]

It doesn't really have the actual A/FD pages. At least not that I can find. The most important info is there, but not the actual A/FD.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

It doesn't really have the actual A/FD pages. At least not that I can find. The most important info is there, but not the actual A/FD.

Right now, if you want 'em that bad, you can download them and put them into GoodReader or another PDF app (GoodReader's my favorite).

I would guess that it might be on the list. I think it's got all the info for airports, but it doesn't have any navaid info yet.

 

[jason]

Right now, if you want 'em that bad, you can download them and put them into GoodReader or another PDF app (GoodReader's my favorite).

I would guess that it might be on the list. I think it's got all the info for airports, but it doesn't have any navaid info yet.

Yup, that's what I do. Just pointing out that the OP asked for A/FD info and FF doesn't contain those pages. I have to keep the PDFs in GoodReader in order to have access to VOR receiver checkpoints and VOT info, for one.

I would still recommend it for his application, just making sure that if he was talking about the literal A/FD (as opposed to general airport info) he'd have to figure out another way with the current version.

 

[jesse]

ForeFlight on the iPad.

In fact, even the note pad is built in to ForeFlight, so you won't need to use the separate note pad program that comes on the iPad.

It's way too much work to flip between an approach plate and the scratchpad right now. Plus it needs to be able to hold multiple "pages" of writing. Or at least that's been my opinion.

Every time I've attempted to use the scratchpad in IMC I've reverted to my pen and paper.

 

[denverpilot]

Every time I've attempted to use the scratchpad in IMC I've reverted to my pen and paper.

Since I'm only VMC, I definitely can see what you're saying there. The thought of copying an long, significantly-amended IFR clearance on the scratchpad, doesn't appeal to me at all.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

It's way too much work to flip between an approach plate and the scratchpad right now.

I know. So do they.

Plus it needs to be able to hold multiple "pages" of writing. Or at least that's been my opinion.

That would be nice... I really only use the scratch pad for ATIS and initial clearance ("CRAFT") so one page is fine for that much, but there have been times where I've wanted a "save this and give me a blank page" button too.

I don't write down frequency/altitude/whatever changes like some people do - Altitudes I memorize (or put in the autopilot or on the G1000 bug in the DA40), frequencies I simply tune as they're read to me, headings I put on the heading bug, etc. So, I probably need less space than those who prefer to write down every single thing ATC gives them.

Every time I've attempted to use the scratchpad in IMC I've reverted to my pen and paper.

simply due to lack of space, or what?

Since I'm only VMC, I definitely can see what you're saying there. The thought of copying an long, significantly-amended IFR clearance on the scratchpad, doesn't appeal to me at all.

Meh... An amended clearance, I'd put straight into the route box so it'd give me an instant visual.

 

[denverpilot]

I had a CFII that wouldn't accept putting things directly into the gear.

The reasoning was that you'd want it on paper in the event of electrical loss... for the handheld, your brain, etc.

He harped on that as his pet peeve that it was a really bad idea. I could see his point.

 

[midlifeflyer]

It's way too much work to flip between an approach plate and the scratchpad right now.

Two taps in either direction is "too much?" (sounds like Jay Leno joke about how lazy we're getting )

I'm still a partial paper user, but not for that reason. I really don't find the scratchpad a particular useful function and carry a small notebook and a sticky pad for those things I like to write down as a memory aid or be able to refer to in flight (although my habit of writing approach numbers on a sticky seems to be changing with the ability to zoom in and lock on the important numbers on approach charts on FF). The desire to write led to my selection of the iPro Aviator as my in-flight iPad kneeboard (http://www.forpilotsonly.com/).

 

[jason]

Two taps in either direction is "too much?" (sounds like Jay Leno joke about how lazy we're getting )

I'm still a partial paper user, but not for that reason. I really don't find the scratchpad a particular useful function and carry a small notebook and a sticky pad for those things I like to write down as a memory aid or be able to refer to in flight (although my habit of writing approach numbers on a sticky seems to be changing with the ability to zoom in and lock on the important numbers on approach charts on FF). The desire to write led to my selection of the iPro Aviator as my in-flight iPad kneeboard (http://www.forpilotsonly.com/).

Yes, most definitely...

It's not about the "two clicks" but about how intuitive those two clicks are. If it was a double tap and pick what you want to switch to, it'd be one thing. But in order to get to the scratch pad from an approach plate you have to click "close" on the approach plate to get to the airport detail page. Then you have to go to the scratch pad. Then, when you're done, you have to click on airports again, then procedures, then pick the plate from the list again. At an airport with a lot of approaches (my airport, KLNK, has 11) finding your approach...again...in a long list takes attention that could best be used controlling the aircraft.

 

[midlifeflyer]

Yes, most definitely...

It's not about the "two clicks" but about how intuitive those two clicks are.

That's the final issue. As with any software, it's how the UI and the user interact. Yeah, it would be nice to have a single click on ever other page to bring back whatever you want to bring back (mine would be to toggle back and forth between the en route and approach chart) but having learned what the two clicks are and that they are the same two clicks no mater where you are in the software, it took about 3 times doing it to become "intuitive" for me.

 

[jesse]

That's the final issue. As with any software, it's how the UI and the user interact. Yeah, it would be nice to have a single click on ever other page to bring back whatever you want to bring back (mine would be to toggle back and forth between the en route and approach chart) but having learned what the two clicks are and that they are the same two clicks no mater where you are in the software, it took about 3 times doing it to become "intuitive" for me.

Try hand flying an approach to minimums in bumpy actual. Have the approach plate up. Now suddenly need to write something down and get back to the plate. Now 30 seconds later you forgot what you wrote down and need to see it again. Switching back and forth takes WAY too much effort.

The entire reason I write things down is because I'll forget them. I need a way to see them quickly that doesn't mean I have to tap all over hell and distract myself for 5-10 seconds just to glance at something.

In order to leave an approach plate you have to close it. Then you have to click on what you wanted to look at. Then you need to switch back to the right tab on the bottom of Foreflight. Then you need to find that approach plate again in a list of 11 approaches.

 

[midlifeflyer]

I guess that's one of the reasons I continue to use some paper. I find the scratchpad completely worthless but don't expect a chart replacement to do everything I would do if I were designing it myself. Heck, if I did design it for my personal taste, I'd expect there to be plenty of those who wouldn't want it that way.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Try hand flying an approach to minimums in bumpy actual. Have the approach plate up. Now suddenly need to write something down and get back to the plate. Now 30 seconds later you forgot what you wrote down and need to see it again. Switching back and forth takes WAY too much effort.

Okay, I agree that it takes too much effort to switch, BUT...

What the heck are you writing down and then referring to while shooting an approach?

 

[Trapper John]

What the heck are you writing down and then referring to while shooting an approach?

You mean you've never had the tower give you a phone number to call? :wink2:

 

[jesse]

Okay, I agree that it takes too much effort to switch, BUT...

What the heck are you writing down and then referring to while shooting an approach?

Quite often it's amended missed approach instructions.

 

[ebetancourt]

For VFR, the only thing Foreflight is missing in my book is all the stuff on the edge of sectionals, particularly special use airspace info. If they could come up with a "button" that pulled that up for the sectional I'm on it would be near perfect. I am not currently flying IFR, might need/want some other things then.

The non-airport stuff in the A/FD would be nice to have in an easy to get to format.

Ernie

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Quite often it's amended missed approach instructions.

Huh... I don't think I've ever gotten those.

Though if ATC decided to give me that past the FAF I think I'd say "unable" regardless of how I was taking information down.

 

[Inverted]

Quite often it's amended missed approach instructions.

You won't get that while shooting the approach they give you that before clearing you.

I use the scratchpad with the stylus to copy clearances down in IMC and it works ok.

 

[jesse]

Huh... I don't think I've ever gotten those.

Though if ATC decided to give me that past the FAF I think I'd say "unable" regardless of how I was taking information down.

Generally it comes with the landing clearance from tower which is before the final approach fix. I never said it was after. You're generally busier on an approach before the faf anyways. Past the faf everything is stabilized.

 

[jesse]

You won't get that while shooting the approach they give you that before clearing you.

I use the scratchpad with the stylus to copy clearances down in IMC and it works ok.

Perhaps amended missed approach isn't the best way to word it. It's provided by tower while being cleared for the option.

"cleared for the option runway 17, after the option turn left heading 140 and climb maintain 3500"

It's generally provided when they know you're going to go missed because you already told them you're going to do so. Essentially vectors setting you up for whatever the next thing you had planned with approach. They'll still do it if you're IFR and in IMC time after time again...which is something I've been doing a lot of lately.

Either way it's something that I need to write down while on the approach because there is no way in hell I'll remember it. I'll often write down all the headings and altitudes as well. Just the way my memory works. Either way all of these things are happening pretty quickly along with wanting to see the approach plate.

 

[Artiom]

This thread somehow become "yet another ForeFlight thread". Time to fix this
I would suggest to take a look at WingX - it has A/FD built-in, geo-referenced taxi diagrams out of the box. However doesn't have scratchpad. Really liked taxi diagrams with a little blue plane on it - helps a lot at unfamiliar airport.

 

[Tarheel Pilot]

The only problem I see with ForeFlight is that it's on Ipad and Iphone, and I refuse to pay $600 for a tablet that has the Apple Brand on it, when I can buy a MUCH cheaper Tablet from another manufacturer that'll have better performance and actually run flash.

 

[Trapper John]

The only problem I see with ForeFlight is that it's on Ipad and Iphone, and I refuse to pay $600 for a tablet that has the Apple Brand on it, when I can buy a MUCH cheaper Tablet from another manufacturer that'll have better performance and actually run flash.

It doesn't take more than a sectional (or two or three), an E-6B, a timepiece and a pencil to go VFR XC.

 

[jesse]

The only problem I see with ForeFlight is that it's on Ipad and Iphone, and I refuse to pay $600 for a tablet that has the Apple Brand on it, when I can buy a MUCH cheaper Tablet from another manufacturer that'll have better performance and actually run flash.

Which tablet would that be? Most of them for less have pretty horrible specs. Really old outdated Android...bad battery life..etc

There are some really nice Android tablets but they don't cost less than the iPad.

 

[Artiom]

Tarheel Pilot,

Then check out WingX for Android on "MUCH cheaper Tablet" and let us know how good it is http://www.hiltonsoftware.com/
WingX for Android V1.2 Beta
now available - point your Android browser to mobile.hiltonsoftware.com
Adds TFRs and several bug fixes

 

[denverpilot]

For VFR, the only thing Foreflight is missing in my book is all the stuff on the edge of sectionals, particularly special use airspace info.

+10000000000!!!!

I still can't quite jive that all these EFBs are "legal charts" for replacement of paper in the cockpit when almost none of them have this data.

And it's one of a few reasons I'm still carrying around paper.

If you have some kind of problem where you need the info to contact the controlling authority of SUA and you don't because your iPad "doesn't have that part of the chart", I don't think the FAA is going to be too pleased with your choice of EFB-only in the aftermath.

I believe most of these companies are buying these digital stitched-together charts from Seattle Avionics and they're all missing this data. Upstream vendor problem?

I want the WHOLE chart available somewhere. Legends too.

While we're on the topic, when you zoom in on an area that's covered by a more detailed chart, sometimes around the edges you can get "chart flipping" going on. I wish there were a way to lock yourself on the sectional layer or the terminal area layer so it wouldn't do that. Sometimes there's data right at the boundary of the sectional that you're trying to look at, and you zoom in and now you have to go fish on the terminal area chart.

Just thoughts.

 

[denverpilot]

"cleared for the option runway 17, after the option turn left heading 140 and climb maintain 3500"

That one's kinda easy. Shorthand. Do you do that?

Draw a left arrow, "140" and 3500 with a bar over the top and bottom of it.

It's the clearances with odd-ball intersection names you don't know how to spell that get too big for the scratchpad.

 

[Artiom]

For VFR, the only thing Foreflight is missing in my book is all the stuff on the edge of sectionals, particularly special use airspace info. If they could come up with a "button" that pulled that up for the sectional I'm on it would be near perfect.
Ernie

WingX scores point on that one. For every MOA, restricted area and alike they have info accessible by clicking on it. See attached screenshot.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Perhaps amended missed approach isn't the best way to word it. It's provided by tower while being cleared for the option.

"cleared for the option runway 17, after the option turn left heading 140 and climb maintain 3500"

It's generally provided when they know you're going to go missed because you already told them you're going to do so.

Huh... I see. They don't do that here. Tower clears us for low approach or landing (they don't use the option unless you ask for it specifically), we call the miss, they tell us to contact departure, or they might add a heading and/or altitude onto "contact departure" but since you're not getting it 'til you're doing it, I never have to write it down.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

This thread somehow become "yet another ForeFlight thread".

There's a reason for that.

Really liked taxi diagrams with a little blue plane on it - helps a lot at unfamiliar airport.

I like that too... But I get that in ForeFlight.

 

[Artiom]

I like that too... But I get that in ForeFlight.

Right, for extra $75:wink2:
I asked FF about getting only this feature without approach plates for less. I believe i posted their carefully crafted reply. Bottom line - N/A yet. WingX has it and costs extra $25 - fair enough IMO.

 

[Artiom]

And don't take me wrong, I'm not against ForeFlight or "MUCH cheaper Tablets". I would like to try all available options and then decide. My WingX evaluation expires on May 1st. I'm planning to give a try to ForeFlight and then make a decision.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Right, for extra $75:wink2:
I asked FF about getting only this feature without approach plates for less. I believe i posted their carefully crafted reply. Bottom line - N/A yet. WingX has it and costs extra $25 - fair enough IMO.

I've been buggin' 'em about that. Were I a VFR pilot, I wouldn't pay the extra $75 for georef since I'd never be using it on the plates, and it's fairly rare that I go to another airport with a taxiway diagram anyway - I fly out of a class C that obviously has one, but I know my way around the home 'drome. I just tend to fly to smaller fields, since most other class C's seem to have very expen$ive FBO's like Signature or Atlantic.

I suspect that they've got to work something out with Seattle Avionics to do this, otherwise it'd already be done I'm sure.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

That one's kinda easy. Shorthand. Do you do that?

Draw a left arrow, "140" and 3500 with a bar over the top and bottom of it.

You call that shorthand? I'd just write "140" and "3500".

 

[flyingcheesehead]

The only problem I see with ForeFlight is that it's on Ipad and Iphone, and I refuse to pay $600 for a tablet that has the Apple Brand on it, when I can buy a MUCH cheaper Tablet from another manufacturer that'll have better performance and actually run flash.

Most of the "iPad killer" tablets are just as expensive as the iPad, if not more. So, I've gotta go with saying "what Jesse said."

 

[jesse]

That one's kinda easy. Shorthand. Do you do that?

Draw a left arrow, "140" and 3500 with a bar over the top and bottom of it.

It's the clearances with odd-ball intersection names you don't know how to spell that get too big for the scratchpad.

It's not a screen issue. It's the amount of taps it takes on the screen to get to the scratch pad and back.