You ever been ramp checked?

I have not, but several of my flight instructors have been ramp checked. They had their docs in order, were asked the basic questions and they answered politely. The ramp checks went quickly and soon they went on their way.

Here is a document that describes how an FAA representative should conduct a Part 91 ramp check.



John Baker said:
I haven't met anyone who has. Anyone here who has, what happened?

John
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Anybody know how that typically works? Is there a guy at the FSDO whose job it is to do ramp checks, and does he just go sit at a different airport each day inside his District, and check each pilot he sees operating an aircraft? Or does he have to see something "off kilter" first?
 
I've been ramp checked three times, once doing aerial survey, once while flight instructing and once doing charter. All three times were at small airports and all three were non-events.
 
TangoWhiskey said:
Anybody know how that typically works? Is there a guy at the FSDO whose job it is to do ramp checks, and does he just go sit at a different airport each day inside his District, and check each pilot he sees operating an aircraft? Or does he have to see something "off kilter" first?
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Most ramp checks are complaint driven. Someone complains and the FSDO inspector comes around. Certainly there are inspectors that may do a ramp check on their own after looking at something else, but there is no "ramp checker". They don't have the staff to just drive around and camp out at an airport for a day. They did have programs where they visited Sat morning breakfast-flyins and check a few pilots so the word gets around they are checking, but that was shelved years ago, but it nearly killed off flyins.

No "probable cause" needed for a ramp check.

Just remember the FAA moto; "We're not happy, until you're unhappy."
 
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Once in Austin, 2 suits didn't even ask for paperwork, just peered into the airplane, chatted about west Texas with us.
Again in Midland, dude says "you a pilot?" or some such, in the fbo (I recognized him). I didn't answer his question directly but did not lie - "I just drove up in a car" (I had, their courtesy car) and he kept going. Only to avoid the 20 questions.
 
TangoWhiskey said:
Anybody know how that typically works? Is there a guy at the FSDO whose job it is to do ramp checks,
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Nope. Everybody's gotta do some every month. The Inspectors have a monthly sheet on which they log how many of each different task they have performed, and if they haven't done enough, the FSDO Manager chews on them.
and does he just go sit at a different airport each day inside his District, and check each pilot he sees operating an aircraft? Or does he have to see something "off kilter" first?
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Yes -- it's both. Sometimes they'll go out to do surveillance, and do random checks on airplanes coming and going. Sometimes they're out there on other business and see something happen, and go out and check the pilot involved. On occasion, they'll even go out and wait for a particular pilot they've targetted for "further review" (as they say in the NFL).
 
My last one was in 1991, at Brookhaven Airport, Long Island NY. It lasted about a minute or two, and the inspector asked for and looked at the required documents and wished us a nice day.

My theory is that the likelihood of having a ramp check varies inversely with your distance from the FSDO. At 180 miles from the closest one here, I don't know if we ever get visits from the FAA. At airports with an FAA office on the field, I would think they would walk outside at least a couple times a year.

Jon
 
11 years ago I got checked in Lovington, NM, flying a 135 trip in a King Air. Passengers had departed for their day's activities and the Fed and I were literally the only two people on the airport. No FBO, just a terminal building with a pay phone that the county unlocked every morning and locked up every night. He was from Lubbock, out flying his taildragger for fun, and saw the 135 sticker in the window. He just said "I gotta ramp you, I need the count." No big deal and he was happy with the paperwork. He made a presentation at the Cedar Mills splashin a couple years ago, representing the FASTT team. I asked him if he remembered me. He said no, then laughed when I reminded him of the circumstances. Not a bad guy, just doing his job.

Saw in the local paper last month that the pax were indicted for something, and probably destined for the graybar.

Ron Levy said:
Nope. Everybody's gotta do some every month. The Inspectors have a monthly sheet on which they log how many of each different task they have performed, and if they haven't done enough, the FSDO Manager chews on them.
Yes -- it's both. Sometimes they'll go out to do surveillance, and do random checks on airplanes coming and going. Sometimes they're out there on other business and see something happen, and go out and check the pilot involved. On occasion, they'll even go out and wait for a particular pilot they've targetted for "further review" (as they say in the NFL).
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My first and only Ramp Check was on my first long cross country while still a student pilot back in 2000. It was at my second destination at Gabreski Airport (KFOK) in West Hampton, NY. He drove up right next to the starboard wing while I was checking my flight plan for the final leg and I was a bit annoyed at first until I saw his government plates. It was so quick I had no time to get nervous. He checked my student pilot license and logbook since I had it out. He was about to walk away when he turned around and asked for my registration which was a pink temporary copy.

Another dude got ramp checked before me and did not have his stuff in order as I ran across him on the way in to the FBO. He was watching to see if the FSDO guy left so he could depart.

A non-event all things considered.

Marco
 
Yes. Many, many times. Last one was week before last. It's no big deal, they just look at your documents, sometimes check the plane over, and it's done. They're just guys...just pilots doing their job. They've all been quite nice and often an interesting and very knowledgeable source of information.
 
We have had several club members ramp checked at KFCM. We have suffered from a spate of runway incursions (all low severity, but one included Jimmy Johns cutting across the airport to deliver sandwiches to the tower).

There have been a range of activities to try to raise awareness and we are told that ramp checks will be more common. Everything has been in order and its been a chance to give the situational awareness safety lecture.

Todd
 
I flew into JFK with a Cessna 172 last week (dropped off a freind who was flying out of JFK).

I was on the ramp for about 5 minutes and a sedan drove up with an inspector with a vgrin from ear to ear. A quick walk around of the plane and a few questions, mostly about why we would fly into JFK with a Cessna, and he was gone as quick as he showed up.
 
John Baker said:
I haven't met anyone who has. Anyone here who has, what happened?
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Yep, I was ramped back in '99, in Racine, WI. I had my Warrior, then, and this dude wearing jeans and a flannel shirt came moseying up while I was filling out paperwork after landing. I figured he was just a ramp rat, coming up to shoot the breeze -- but, nope! He was from the FAA, and he was there to help...

Of course, all of my paperwork was in order, so the whole thing took about 3 minutes. There was Grumman Tiger parked on the ramp for a few days, however. The owner hadn't been so fastidious about his documentation, and had been forced to rent a car to drive home to Chicago...
 
We had a guy camp out at Clow for a day last year, checking just about everybody who came in. Found 1 with an expired medical. As others have said, NBD.
 
EAA Poker Run back in June. He was waiting for us a the first stop. Purely a non-event. Very pleasant, complimented the plane (a rental 172 G-1000), complimented the flying (must have been watching someone else) check the documents and told me to have a good day. Turns out he was an ex-member of the EAA Chapter and still got emails so he knew where we would be going. :D
 
While not exactly a Ramp check, one of my favorite events was when I took a pilot our to the Citabria we had on the line for a Flight Review. As we reviewed the required documents we discovered there was not a stitch of paper work in the airplane. We went in and checked the signout logs and found that a local FAA inspector had flown it last as one of his currency flights. I know this inspector he is an excellent example of what a FAA inspector should be. A phone call to the inspector inquiring as to if he had seen the paperwork for the airplane when he flew it. I didn't hear exactly how he answered that question, but we had replacement paperwork for it in record time.:)

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL
 
Some years back a pal and I flew in for a $100.00 hamburger. I made the AIM approach--Mid field transistion 500 above pattern 45 degree entry--etc. My pal made the "Canadian" entry--mid field crosswind at pattern altitude and turn downwind. He then announced over the CTAF "Ha Ha I beat you!". We were looking over the menus when a chap approached us and asked "Who owns the green Cherokee?". Ron's troubles began then and didn't end for a couple of weeks.

Cheers:

Paul
N1431A
2AZ1
www.indianhillsairpark.com
 
once, with a student on his first lesson. it was no big deal.
 
brcase said:
While not exactly a Ramp check, one of my favorite events was when I took a pilot our to the Citabria we had on the line for a Flight Review. As we reviewed the required documents we discovered there was not a stitch of paper work in the airplane. We went in and checked the signout logs and found that a local FAA inspector had flown it last as one of his currency flights. I know this inspector he is an excellent example of what a FAA inspector should be. A phone call to the inspector inquiring as to if he had seen the paperwork for the airplane when he flew it. I didn't hear exactly how he answered that question, but we had replacement paperwork for it in record time.:)

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL
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I've grounded a club plane for exactly that. Somebody had taken the documentation home to copy and hadn't brought it back. When I called the previous member to see it they had it the reply was that they hadn't looked. Gee, first item on my preflight check list - ARROW.

pmanton said:
Some years back a pal and I flew in for a $100.00 hamburger. I made the AIM approach--Mid field transistion 500 above pattern 45 degree entry--etc. My pal made the "Canadian" entry--mid field crosswind at pattern altitude and turn downwind. He then announced over the CTAF "Ha Ha I beat you!". We were looking over the menus when a chap approached us and asked "Who owns the green Cherokee?". Ron's troubles began then and didn't end for a couple of weeks.

Cheers:

Paul
N1431A
2AZ1
www.indianhillsairpark.com
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Oops.
 
pmanton said:
Ron's troubles began then and didn't end for a couple of weeks.
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That's the kind of faa behavior that gives them a bad name. That bust was this kind, imo.
4h7i4w.jpg
 
I was ramp checked yesterday. They tend to have plenty around here since the FSDO is on the field. It's no big deal at all, they just want to see all your documents to meet a quota....and of course make sure everyone is following the rules. I've been ramp checked twice within the past few months. They've never asked me anything about the airplane though.
 
I got ramp checked twice while towing banners, four times while flying part 135 freight (one of those at 1am!) and numerous times at a 121 carrier. Oddly enough (or maybe not?) the first three ramp checks over a two year period were all by the same inspector. Never ran into any issues.
 
I got ramp checked at one of the last places I'd ever expect, Brennand Airport where I instruct, a tiny little airport that most people don't know exists. The FAA guy showed up with two kids in the car on a Saturday morning. When he came up to me I thought he would inquire about flight lessons. Instead he introduced himself and took a look at my pilot certificate and medical, and the airplane's data plate and documents.

He didn't know that a third class medical is (was) good for three years for people under 40.
 
Once, when I had 65 hours (probably about a month after getting my private) and flew into Republic airport (KFRG) on Long Island.

I'd spent the weekend in the area, and was getting ready to fly home. We were filling up and preflighting the plane, and the guy came up, introduced himself, and we spent more time talking about airplanes than dealing with the actual ramp check. He dinged me on one thing, and said "I could make a big deal about this, but just make sure you get it fixed when you get home." Nice guy, just doing his job.

He was driving around doing ramp checks all morning. Probably trying to meet the quota for the month in one shot.
 
From what I am gathering from this thread, ramp checks seem pretty common occurrences, yet since I've been flying, I've never met anyone who has. I've talked to old airport bums who have thousands of hours and never had it happen.

I guess my impression has been wrong.

John
 
John Baker said:
From what I am gathering from this thread, ramp checks seem pretty common occurrences, yet since I've been flying, I've never met anyone who has. I've talked to old airport bums who have thousands of hours and never had it happen.
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Not really. When I had my ramp check, there were a ton of pilots who said to me "I've been flying for [insert number] of years and never been ramp checked. You've been flying for 6 months and it happens to you!" My instructor, flying all his life and having 6000 hours (maybe 7000 now) I think has only been ramp checked once.

Just a matter of right place, right time.
 
4CornerFlyer said:
My last one was in 1991, at Brookhaven Airport, Long Island NY. It lasted about a minute or two, and the inspector asked for and looked at the required documents and wished us a nice day.

My theory is that the likelihood of having a ramp check varies inversely with your distance from the FSDO. At 180 miles from the closest one here, I don't know if we ever get visits from the FAA. At airports with an FAA office on the field, I would think they would walk outside at least a couple times a year.

Jon
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We are less than 15 miles (by air) to the FSDO, and I have never seen an FAA guy at Hastings. There is only one other airport closer (not including the home airport of the FSDO) than ours, so I can't imagine why they wouldn't be.
 
After 40 years and over 8000 hours, I've not been ramp-checked (although I've participated in some ramp check demos). OTOH, I know one or two folks who've been checked many times in only a fraction of the years and hours. One point to remember is that the inspectors get more brownie points for checking 121 and 135 operations, so they tend to gravitate towards those. Also, distance from the FSDO tends to be a factor in the likelihood that an inspector is out there checking, as well as traffic levels. Small, sleepy airports a long way from the FSDO may get visited a couple of time a year, and that's it, but a big, busy airport across town from the office may see FAA folks on a weekly basis or more (especially if there's a good airport restaurant -- cops and doughnuts, FAA Inspectors and cheeseburgers).
 
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Ron Levy said:
One point to remember is that the inspectors get more brownie points for checking 121 and 135 operations, so they tend to gravitate towards those.
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Can you cite the document and they "system" that gives ASI's "more brownie points" for checking one operation vs. another? Also, define what a "brownie point" is and how it's applied to an ASI.
 
Rotor&Wing said:
Can you cite the document and they "system" that gives ASI's "more brownie points" for checking one operation vs. another? Also, define what a "brownie point" is and how it's applied to an ASI.
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The FSDO's have a system called the Program Tracking and Reporting Subsystem (PTRS) by which they measure whether Inspectors are doing as much work as they are supposed to. Use of this system is mandated by FAA Order 1380.51, and is managed according to the PTRS Procedures Manual (PPM). They have must do so many of certain kinds of activity every month, and can substitute some number of one activity for some number of another based on a point system. You can find the PPM at http://fsims.faa.gov/wdocs/other/ptrs_procedures_manual.htm.
 
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