How to fly in and out of this airport

jmaynard said:
I do too, as a firm believer in the idea that a pilot should think before pushing the button. Unfortunately, nobody's perfect. I must be doing something right, since my CFI tells his students to listen to me on the radio.
Click to expand...

Definitely. I found your radio calls to be appropriately informative and concise, as they should be. :)
 
Greg Bockelman said:
So what constitutes "establish two-way communications"? In the past, it was acknowledgment by ATC with the tail number. As far as I know, that has not changed.
Click to expand...
Examples in the AIM still show that to be true.

3. Arrival or Through Flight Entry Requirements. Two-way radio communication must be established with the ATC facility providing ATC services prior to entry and thereafter maintain those communications while in Class C airspace. Pilots of arriving aircraft should contact the Class C airspace ATC facility on the publicized frequency and give their position, altitude, radar beacon code, destination, and request Class C service. Radio contact should be initiated far enough from the Class C airspace boundary to preclude entering Class C airspace before two-way radio communications are established.
NOTE-
1. If the controller responds to a radio call with, "(aircraft callsign) standby," radio communications have been established and the pilot can enter the Class C airspace.
2. If workload or traffic conditions prevent immediate provision of Class C services, the controller will inform the pilot to remain outside the Class C airspace until conditions permit the services to be provided.
3. It is important to understand that if the controller responds to the initial radio call without using the aircraft identification, radio communications have not been established and the pilot may not enter the Class C airspace.
4. Though not requiring regulatory action, Class C airspace areas have a procedural Outer Area. Normally this area is 20 NM from the primary Class C airspace airport. Its vertical limit extends from the lower limits of radio/radar coverage up to the ceiling of the approach control's delegated airspace, excluding the Class C airspace itself, and other airspace as appropriate. (This outer area is not charted.)
5. Pilots approaching an airport with Class C service should be aware that if they descend below the base altitude of the 5 to 10 mile shelf during an instrument or visual approach, they may encounter nontransponder, VFR aircraft.
EXAMPLE-
1. [Aircraft callsign] "remain outside the Class Charlie airspace and standby."
2. "Aircraft calling Dulles approach control, standby."
Click to expand...



http://www.faa.gov/airports_airtraffic/air_traffic/publications/ATpubs/AIM/Chap3/aim0302.html
 
Ted DuPuis said:
I've noticed what I believe to be two views that cause this. First one is "I don't need them telling me what to do" (sounds an awful lot like a hazardous attitude to me), second one is "I don't want to screw up and embarass myself in front of everyone else on the radio". The first one is probably best addressed with a sledgehammer. As to the second one, there are the people out there who tell you their whole life stories, including their dog's name, just to ask for flight following. It's hard to be much worse than that. ATC is there to help, not critique your radio skills (although on occasion I've heard them give self-declared student pilots some helpful hints).

And thanks Skip/Felix for clarifying my point, you are correct that it was unclear.
Click to expand...

Here's a third reason, by example. On a flight from Everglades City to Venice Florida today I called Ft Meyers approach since I was going to be passing very close to the west edge of the Class C and only 500 ft above it. ATC responded with a mumbled sqawk code so I had to ask for a repeat. The controller sounded very annoyed when she transmitted it again but at least she spoke clearly. About 5 minutes later she called back with a 90 degree left turn "for departing traffic". There wasn't any departing traffic that I could see visually or on my active traffic system, in fact there wasn't another airplane in her airspace within 15 miles of me. I replied with "I'll just stay out of the Class B" and got "sqawk 1200 goodbye".

There was no need for me to call the TRACON at all, I just thought it would be better if I were talking to them. There was also absolutely no need for me to head directly away from my course to avoid traffic, apparently she just wanted me out of her hair.
 
lancefisher said:
Here's a third reason, by example. On a flight from Everglades City to Venice Florida today I called Ft Meyers approach since I was going to be passing very close to the west edge of the Class C and only 500 ft above it. ATC responded with a mumbled sqawk code so I had to ask for a repeat. The controller sounded very annoyed when she transmitted it again but at least she spoke clearly. About 5 minutes later she called back with a 90 degree left turn "for departing traffic". There wasn't any departing traffic that I could see visually or on my active traffic system, in fact there wasn't another airplane in her airspace within 15 miles of me. I replied with "I'll just stay out of the Class B" and got "sqawk 1200 goodbye".

There was no need for me to call the TRACON at all, I just thought it would be better if I were talking to them. There was also absolutely no need for me to head directly away from my course to avoid traffic, apparently she just wanted me out of her hair.
Click to expand...
Maybe a call to the supervisor is in order? That attitude isn't ok...
 
Okay guys.....KLNA is my home drome.

You DO NOT have to contact PBI at any time unless you want to, or need to transit their airspace.

We typically announce on CTAF our intentions and departure routes, and fly out at 1000', which is below the 1200' shelf of PBI.

Occasionally, we will fly out to the coast, and contact PBI and transit north along the shore at 500'-1000'.

Typically, I will only contact PBI to pick up a clearance, or FF.

Sometimes on an instrument approach, I will fly directly OVER PBI at 2000', and when I have cleared their runways they will allow me to descend (quickly I might add) and switch freq's.

Anyother questions I'll be glad to answer.
 
Thanks all.

I learned what I was wondering thanks to this.
 
wildwobby said:
Hi,

I'm a student pilot, and was just randomly looking through airnav and stumbled upon Palm Beach County Park Airport. I see it's proximity to KPBI and how it is under the low shelf of the Class C.
http://skyvector.com/#43-37-3-2837-1710

Since the field is uncontrolled, how would you possibly safely fly into and out of the airport? Would Palm Beach approach be in charge of it? Who exactly do you contact before you takeoff, or as you approach, etc..?
Click to expand...


I'll weigh in and say that in the Miami/PB area it would be wise to be talking
to approach. There's a lot of traffic there and a lot of low level VFR
traffic under the shelves. I've flown into and out of Tamiami in the SW
corner of Miami in my Tiger when I had it. Center and approach were very
easy to work with. I've also flown out of Lantana with Jerry Molter in his Waco when he had it down there. In that case we talked to PB approach
because we wanted to make a run up the beach and wanted to be in
the area in the inner ring of the C space.

RT
 
gprellwitz said:
I don't think I've ever given my beacon code to ATC on initial callup. Am I alone in that?
Click to expand...
Nope, I've never seen that.

But, I did have a student call center after a hand-off with the controller responding as usual with numbers such as "Two-niner-niner-five." I then watched the student try to punch that number into the transponder. He then wanted to call the controller and say that won't work in the transponder and did so before I had a chance to intervene. :redface:

He thought he was being given a new squawk. "Nope, we almost always keep the same one we got."
 
gprellwitz said:
I don't think I've ever given my beacon code to ATC on initial callup. Am I alone in that?
Click to expand...
Either it is 1200 or you have been handed off. Why isn't tail number for identification mentioned?
 
gprellwitz said:
I don't think I've ever given my beacon code to ATC on initial callup. Am I alone in that?
Click to expand...

kevin47881 said:
I'm with you, Grant.
Click to expand...

Most of the time I am 'with you' as well on that. But I have now twice been told during a handoff to let the gaining controller know what I am squawking. Since I was told to do that I did that. But it is not a normal procedure that I would ever just do on my own. A hand off check in is just me stating my full callsign, and if I am level, climbing, or descending, current altitude and if need assigned altitude.

Both times I was told to give my squawk it from from South Bend Approach to Kalamazoo approach. Since this is in Ed's back yard I wonder if he has seen it before as well? Also I should add that both happened within a few days of each other so I also wonder if there was some sort of issue between that two facilities that precipitated this unusual procedure?
 
Last edited:
smigaldi said:
Most of the time I am 'with you' as well on that. But I have now twice been told during a handoff to let the gaining controller know what I am squawking. Sinc eI was told to do that I did that. But it is not a normal procedure that I would ever just do on my own. A hand off check in is jsut me stating my full callsign, and if I am level, climbing, or descending, current altitude and if need assigned altitude.

Both times I was told to give my squawk it from from South Bend Approach to Kalamazoo approach. Since this is in Ed's back yard I wonder if he has seen it before as well? Also I should add that both happened within a few days of each other so I also wonder if there was some sort of issue between that two facilities that precipitated this unusual procedure?
Click to expand...


There are often times when they don't hand you off to the next facility. Going in any direction. Kalamazoo to Lansing or South Bend or Toledo. They don't tell you squawk VFR/1200, but they don't really hand you off either. I'll get "you are leaving my airpsace, you can try South Bend/Toledo/Lansing on..."

In those cases, I just leave my squawk the same, and make the next call like I have been handed off and tack the squawk onto the end of the call.
"Cherokee XXXXX level 6500, squawking 4251."

Sometimes I get a code change, sometimes I don't. I've never toured the AZO facility so I don't know why they do these quasi handoffs. Maybe because they are a TRSA holdover, and don't always do VFR handoffs?
 
AuntPeggy said:
Either it is 1200 or you have been handed off. Why isn't tail number for identification mentioned?
Click to expand...

KennyFlys said:
Meaning?
Click to expand...
I believe she's pointing out that the AIM in thw quoted section doesn't request that you provide your callsign, though I trust that we all know to do it. And I don't know why they don't mention that, or the aircraft type, either.
 
gprellwitz said:
I believe she's pointing out that the AIM in the quoted section doesn't request that you provide your callsign, though I trust that we all know to do it. And I don't know why they don't mention that, or the aircraft type, either.
Click to expand...
Ah, ok. Something else overlooked far too often... Never abbreviate your tail number until the controller has done so.

That sometimes becomes a problem at our airport because the controllers tend to enter the clearance with an already abbreviated tail number for the local aircraft.

As for aircraft type, it's wise that every time you initially call a controller, identify your type of aircraft. Hence for a 172 it would be, "Skyhawk one-six-four-two-victor." Otherwise, at some point they are going to ask for type of aircraft. Upon the initial call with each hand-off, also indicate type and full tail number.

I had brought this up in another thread but folks seemed to have found something else to discuss.
 
smigaldi said:
Most of the time I am 'with you' as well on that. But I have now twice been told during a handoff to let the gaining controller know what I am squawking. Since I was told to do that I did that.
Click to expand...

That reminds me, on my way to Schaumburg the other night I was on a local VFR squawk (04XX) and Madison handed me to Rockford with "Contact Rockford Approach on 121.0, let them know your type aircraft and destination." I didn't get a new squawk, either. First time I've ever kept a 04xx.
 
I fly out of VNY. Our airspace is so busy that you really need to get following even when you are just going to the practice areas. I usually take my students out to the desert to do ground reference work. Out there using ATC advisories is not a major issue so we don't use the service then. Its there for you when you need it, if its available due to controller workload. So a good pilot always needs to be able to just rely on themselves.

Good training will teach that you need to balance your time out between your outside scanning and your use of the radio and panel usage.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top