Opinions on a C172C purchase

[Swale]

Hello all, I’m a new member here that’s been lurking for a while hoping to get some opinions from more experienced GA owners.

I'm a relatively new private pilot working towards an instrument rating and hopefully beyond who has had it on my mind that I would like to own my own aircraft I have been renting and while I don’t feel I’ve been having a particularly bad deal me and my wife would love the flexibility of our own aircraft where I’m not restricted in where I go and what I do with it, I'm not totally naive I realize that there is upkeep, inspections, annuals and possibly overhauls within my ownership not to mention if something goes wrong and the idea to mitigate this would be to run a fund in which we put some cash in to cover the cost per flight hour…am I crazy to want to get involved with this potentially fatal; attraction?

I’d also wish to get some opinions on that, particularly an aircraft that I’ve been offered and what seems to me a slightly odd history.

So here goes….
1962 Cessna 172 C 0-300D continental

- 3700 Airframe Total Time
- 427 Engine Since Overhaul (Major)
- 195 Time Since Top Overhaul (Cylinders)
- 2694- Prop Since New

IFR Equipped

- 2 Com Radio
- 2 Nav Radios
- 2 VOR 1 ILS
- Audio Panel/Intercom
- Transponder Mode C

Annual Inspection is next due 07/23

The seller is asking a firm $42500 which I'm feeling could be a little strong given the information below.

Upon speaking with him I have been told that there is an issue with the record of its last and only Major Overhaul which was allegedly done in 1999 (around 400hrs ago which I thought is possibly a cause for concern as it means it's hardly been used for the past 20+ years) however there is little to no known evidence that this has occurred there is an entry written in the logbook saying “start of engine Overhaul on said date on 13/12/1998 at 2270hrs”
However there is absolutely nothing else no yellow tabs no records of who did it what was or wasn’t replaced etc… then the logbook continues as normal. Coming into the most recent annual with compressions 1# 66/80 2# 58/80 3# 68/80 4# 62/80 5# 64/80 6# 68/80 (I was a little concerned these may be slightly low but have heard that's not abnormal or a concern for continental engines)

Throughout its life there doesn’t seem to have been any significant issues with the aircraft it did have a cylinder and ring change many moons ago. A lot of the entries are illegible to me (awful writing) the seller has been forthcoming with this info.

The other negative I’m told and can see is the pain is in poor condition I do wonder if a bit of TLC and a good cleaning may improve it somewhat the interior seems very tidy from the photos and by the seller's account.

Also, its recent weight and balance show it weighing 1753lb empty CG 40.83 which is only giving a useful load of 496lb its empty mass seems very high to me. I did mention this to the seller and he seemed to think that this must be a mistake and pointed me to another weigh-in with a more useful load of 662lbs back in OCT 2021. nothing has been added or changed it seems so is it plausible they messed this up?

I’d love to hear some general advice on ownership and this situation, my thinking is it’ll make it harder to sell until it gets another overhaul and there’s certainly a risk that maybe something hasn’t been done I hear that the engine is a great smooth engine I’m curious on what peoples thinking is on its value also and what it would be like trying to sell it should I need to prior to an overhaul... I do intend to put substantial hours on this aircraft-to-hour build.

Am I crazy to even consider this any advice really appreciated?

 

[WDD]

Keep working on instrument by renting (which I hope has a modern GPS system like a GTN 650). After you've gotten that done, then look around. With this economy prices won't be going up like they were. There will be something to buy after you get your instrument done.

 

[ArrowFlyer86]

Welcome to the forum!

Here's my 0.02$ from the peanut gallery...

General advice:
- Buy a plane that has the avionics you want. Installing them later is $$,$$$ and you won't get your money out in resale. I didn't do this with my PA28 and I'll be paying for that mistake.
- A lack of documentation on the OH isn't good, neither is its relative lack of use over the last 23 years. Flying an avg of 17h/year? For comparison, mine was flown 300h in the previous 18 years before I bought it and then I had some engine work ($$$$) to do to nurse it back. Not cheap.
- Lots of speculation on this forum that a/c prices have peaked and may be coming down a bit. Personally I wouldn't be in a rush to buy right now.
- Like WDD said: I'd probably finish your other training first. Your IFR training might give you a better appreciation for what you desire in your next plane.

This plane specifically:
- I'm not a Cessna expert but a 1753lb empty weight seems... heavy... for a 172. Is that legit? The guy is probably right that it was misdocumented.
- It doesn't seem like a particularly compelling deal TBH. Bad paint, meh avionics, not flown very much, documentation seems blah. Not the end of the world but not exactly a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity either.

 

[Dan Thomas]

1753 pounds for a 172C means that someone has filled the belly with concrete or something. It's so far off as to be ridiculous. These airplanes weighed maybe 1350 when they left the factory. CG also seems way too aft. Someone has screwed up the numbers.

The instrument panels in these old airplanes were not conducive to good IFR training. The instrument locations are a scramble. In the mid-'60s or so they went to the familiar six-pack layout we see everywhere now in steam-gauge airplanes.

More than $40K for a 60-year-old airplane should suggest a really thorough prebuy inspection. Really thorough. Open it right up. Complete AD search. I'd expect to spend over eight hours on it, maybe 12. Find the deal-breakers before you start writing big cheques. You could end up spending far more irretrievable money on an old airplane than you'd spend renting a decent airplane for the IFR and time building.

 

[Gary Ward]

I’d pass…I agree with everyone else. Get your instrument rating first in a plane with a GPS. It is going to need engine work again it sounds. Those engine parts are hard to get now.
I think you will be too busy working on your instrument training and a new old plane and would be a distraction. It will breakdown and cause delays in your training also. Let someone else maintain your trainer airplane and you concentrate on flying.
I also think plane prices will come down in the future.

I paid 35k for my 1980 172N in 2018. It was all original including the panel except it had a DME and ADF added. Most of the panel did not work right. 1400 hr plane with damage history and nice paint. I got really lucky because I got to fly it for my friend for 5 months because he lost his medical before buying it from him.

Then look around and get something newer with a better panel after your training.

 

[SamSES]

Why spend that on a 172, much more fun and useful aircraft you could get

 

[frfly172]

The numbers don’t seem to be right for a 172. I owned a 1962 172 ,was a good airplane,it gets expensive to get some real IFR instruments and radios. At a minimum you would want a thorough pre purchase inspection. Get your instrument rating then shop for a personal airplane.

 

[Swale]

Thank you all for the great advice all taken on board, I am fairly near to my instrument test and all my training has been done on PA28-180 and C172SP with G1000 as well as logging time on rental PA28 and C172 and some 182B time with steam.

Maybe I’ll throw this guy an offer pending an inspection, maybe not, he seems fairly firm so I imagine It’ll go nowhere which is fine. For further knowledge what would something like this realistically be worth if it was altogether and worth given it’s lack of history on the overhaul (wondering what a fair offer would actually be). Out curiosity is it really as big of a deal as I think it may be to it’s value…aside from mechanical risk?

 

[Swale]

Why spend that on a 172, much more fun and useful aircraft you could get

Familiarity for myself dependable, well known but I certainly am open to suggestions I still have much to learn. Does need to have a good decent useful load, and affordable to insure and run (as an airplane can be).

 

[ArrowFlyer86]

For further knowledge what would something like this realistically be worth given it’s lack of history on the overhaul.

It's impossible to give an answer with any level of accuracy given what we know about the listing (or don't know, to be more precise). You could go scroll through Trade-A-Plane and find comparable 172s and see what they're listed for, that could give you some idea. There's enough data points there where you can probably ascertain a ballpark figure for reasonable asking prices.

Out curiosity is it really as big of a deal as I think it may be to it’s value aside from mechanical risk?

I've met a few folks who were fine with a lack of documentation and who don't put a lot of stock in logbook entries anyways. But I'd say they're in the minority.
Most people are like you -- their antenna goes up and alarm bells start ringing when they see a lack of proper record keeping. If you're asking if there is risk to resale value because of that? The answer is definitely yes.

 

[Dan Thomas]

Out curiosity is it really as big of a deal as I think it may be to it’s value…aside from mechanical risk?

As a mechanic I have seen guys lose their shirts on airplanes that they bought. Most often they didn't get a prebuy, or insisted that the inspector only spend an hour on it. That's an hour of wasted time and money. I know one that bought an old 172 for $12K, then had an annual that cost him $7k. Then he took it elsewhere for the next annual, where the mechanics were a bit more observant, and it cost him $13K. There were a LOT of defects in that airplane. There were still a bunch of defects that he decided to defer rather than pay for. He lost heart and sold it for $12K.

And that is not an uncommon story. There is no such thing as a "cheap old airplane."

 

[Swale]

As a mechanic I have seen guys lose their shirts on airplanes that they bought. Most often they didn't get a prebuy, or insisted that the inspector only spend an hour on it. That's an hour of wasted time and money. I know one that bought an old 172 for $12K, then had an annual that cost him $7k. Then he took it elsewhere for the next annual, where the mechanics were a bit more observant, and it cost him $13K. There were a LOT of defects in that airplane. There were still a bunch of defects that he decided to defer rather than pay for. He lost heart and sold it for $12K.

And that is not an uncommon story. There is no such thing as a "cheap old airplane."

Yes I can only imagine, this what scares me. I have the philosophy to buy once but right but I know that your always running a significant risk with old machinery. Pre buy inspection definitely seems sensible to his credit the seller said that himself and would refund any deposit or rectify anything that was found. Which I imagine makes him appear rather confident. The big factor for me that’s scaring me is the lack of overhaul docs, as if for any reason I wanted out I fear it’ll make it hard to move on. The paint I’m not so so bothered if it’s priced with that in mind. y inexperienced gut feeling is something in the later 30s is plenty fair enough. If it stands the inspection. Again really value all the input as I try to learn. Thanks

 

[Sundancer]

172s are at a premium - popular for flight training, and so many pilots grew up with them too. IMHO it keeps the prices high. It looks like it'll need an engine, regardless; I don't know what the calendar TBO is on an O-300, but I doubt it stretches to 25 years. Get your Instrument, maybe look into an equity flying club - buy in for a reasonable $$$ amount, learn your way around GA a bit. Some clubs are set-up for traveling, versus training. The airplane's avionics are not so hot, and no IFR GPS means you'll have to drop some $$$ there, too.

 

[TCABM]

Given OPs current experience and place in training, the money would be better spent finishing the instrument rating, then buying an airplane appropriate to the mission, which I don’t think has really been defined here.

 

[Llk]

You’re not ready.

Why does the engine have only a few hundred hours AND then it was topped within another 200? Hmmmm.

You’re also buying 6 cylinders, not 4…more gas, greater overhaul costs…and your avionics won’t be cheap.

That is not a good deal.

What’s your mission? Once you build some hours, you think flying 105 knots will do it for you? I’m ferrying a 150 from Texas to California and let me tell you- it’s going to be 18 looooooooooooooooooooooooooong hours. And I’ve got a ton of cross country time and a Chunk of IFR time…

What are your real goals?

Some experimentals in that range.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Bell206]

I’d love to hear some general advice on ownership

One of the first recommendations I tell potential new aircraft owners is to pick their mechanic first who will maintain their new aircraft. Then you can get them involved in this discussion from the get-go to include any prebuys. No matter who else helps you with an aircraft purchase its your A&P/IA who will let you know how well you did at your 1st annual inspection. Airworthiness is half objective and half subjective to the person making that determination. Plenty of 1st annual horror stories on PoA to learn from. Good luck.

 

[Swale]

You’re not ready.

Why does the engine have only a few hundred hours AND then it was topped within another 200? Hmmmm.

You’re also buying 6 cylinders, not 4…more gas, greater overhaul costs…and your avionics won’t be cheap.

That is not a good deal.

What’s your mission? Once you build some hours, you think flying 105 knots will do it for you? I’m ferrying a 150 from Texas to California and let me tell you- it’s going to be 18 looooooooooooooooooooooooooong hours. And I’ve got a ton of cross country time and a Chunk of IFR time…

What are your real goals?

Some experimentals in that range.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Good points there, generally it's for me to build hours and have the ability to fly where I want when I want without club or renter limitations. Something faster would be great but I'm sure costs will become a factor, very open to suggestions on planes to look out for.. side note I noticed a cool-looking BE77 Skipper but I have no idea about them and seemed a bit pricey.

 

[ArrowFlyer86]

Good points there, generally it's for me to build hours and have the ability to fly where I want when I want without club or renter limitations. Something faster would be great but I'm sure costs will become a factor, very open to suggestions on planes to look out for.. side note I noticed a cool-looking BE77 Skipper but I have no idea about them and seemed a bit pricey.

Member Steingar is selling a Mooney Ranger (same year as your Cessna I think) and I am 100% positive it would be a ****load more fun to fly than a 172. And I think his ad says it only burns 8-9gph IIRC...

You'd get retractable, a magical blue lever (I think it's constant speed), MANY more knots and a bigger gas tank to go places. As a new PPL I would have done that 1000x over instead of a 172.

 

[ArrowFlyer86]

Member Steingar is selling a Mooney Ranger (same year as your Cessna I think) and I am 100% positive it would be a ****load more fun to fly than a 172. And I think his ad says it only burns 8-9gph IIRC...

You'd get retractable, a magical blue lever (I think it's constant speed), MANY more knots and a bigger gas tank to go places. As a new PPL I would have done that 1000x over instead of a 172.

And I say that as someone who isn't exactly flying an exotic dream machine (I fly a piper arrow). But when I was flying a 172 briefly last December - it made me immensely grateful that I got an arrow. This kind of ties in with what folks say above though: there's a benefit to waiting just a little bit longer and finding what qualities you really value in a plane. Going places is a lot different than training... 105kts might be great now, but likely that will not be the case as soon as training ends .

And if you're cost/price conscious the only thing worse than buying a plane that needs work is buying that plane, realizing you don't like it, and then having to buy another

 

[TCABM]

Good points there, generally it's for me to build hours and have the ability to fly where I want when I want without club or renter limitations. Something faster would be great but I'm sure costs will become a factor, very open to suggestions on planes to look out for.. side note I noticed a cool-looking BE77 Skipper but I have no idea about them and seemed a bit pricey.

Sounds like a club or partnership might be a better choice for you.

 

[Dan Thomas]

And if you're cost/price conscious the only thing worse than buying a plane that needs work is buying that plane, realizing you don't like it, and then having to buy another

It's easy to buy an airplane. It's a lot harder to keep it. The up-front purchase price is just the visible tip of the iceberg.

Yes, a complex is more fun...but for a low-time PPL the insurance can be crippling.

 

[ArrowFlyer86]

It's easy to buy an airplane. It's a lot harder to keep it. The up-front purchase price is just the visible tip of the iceberg.

Yes, a complex is more fun...but for a low-time PPL the insurance can be crippling.

That's very true. Mine was in the 3-4k$ range my first year. But that price comes down fast. Within 18 months I was at $2300 (a 182 for me was $1800 for same insured hull).

I do admit that I'm operating under the assumption that a few thousand a year isn't going to sink them financially. I think in the owner community you pretty much have to be able to absorb a few k extra per year, the annual alone is going to throw that at you from time to time...

If your budget is constrained then, all other things equal, fixed gear is the way to go

 

[texasclouds]

What color is it? Go for the one with nice paint!

 

[ArrowFlyer86]

What color is it? Go for the one with nice paint!

Whoa, wait..
Where's the Cessna 195 sales plug, Jack?

 

[texasclouds]

Whoa, wait..
Where's the Cessna 195 sales plug, Jack?

Let me whip this out…

All of the above posts are garbage. Listen here, jack. What you need is a Cessna 195.

Picture this. You are clear to land. As you ease the throttle back, your Jacobs engine purrs like a kitten. You gracefully slip in base to final to touch down on the 1000 footers in two point configuration. The tail lowers like the setting sun in Maui, and you taxi off on the first exit. The first exit every time. Tower clears you to preferential parking “with me” so he can ask you what year she is. Rampers are fighting to park you. The FBO girl wants to marry you. They give you the courtesy car for the week, if that is long enough for you. Airport burger is on the house. And you son, I mean Sir. Yes, Sir Cessna 195 owner. You have arrived! Welcome back Sir!

 

[TCABM]

Let me whip this out…

All of the above posts are garbage. Listen here, jack. What you need is a Cessna 195.

Picture this. You are clear to land. As you ease the throttle back, your Jacobs engine purrs like a kitten. You gracefully slip in base to final to touch down on the 1000 footers in two point configuration. The tail lowers like the setting sun in Maui, and you taxi off on the first exit. The first exit every time. Tower clears you to preferential parking “with me” so he can ask you what year she is. Rampers are fighting to park you. The FBO girl wants to marry you. They give you the courtesy car for the week, if that is long enough for you. Airport burger is on the house. And you son, I mean Sir. Yes, Sir Cessna 195 owner. You have arrived! Welcome back Sir!

Needs to be stickied.

 

[wheaties]

@Swale a 172C is a great plane and that engine isn't as scary as others have said. However, this plane in the current shape and with current avionics sounds like it's for time building, not owning. For time builders, it is priced right.

But... if you have time and are handy

1. Strip the paint and polish it with someone experienced. You should do the majority of the work. This is a LOT of work. Think on the order of 1 or more weeks.
2. Have a shop so the leading edge, ailerons, and other control surfaces a color of your choice.
3. With an AP buddy open it up and clean the heck out of it. We're talking mineral wash and an aluminum scrubber. Give that a week or so time wise.
4. Order an interior that you and an AP buddy can install.
5. Have it weighed.

Now judge if that's a good deal, money wise.

 

[SamSES]

You’re not ready.

Why does the engine have only a few hundred hours AND then it was topped within another 200? Hmmmm.

You’re also buying 6 cylinders, not 4…more gas, greater overhaul costs…and your avionics won’t be cheap.

That is not a good deal.

What’s your mission? Once you build some hours, you think flying 105 knots will do it for you? I’m ferrying a 150 from Texas to California and let me tell you- it’s going to be 18 looooooooooooooooooooooooooong hours. And I’ve got a ton of cross country time and a Chunk of IFR time…

What are your real goals?

Some experimentals in that range.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

How long have you read fortunes?

Who knows why it was a top job, maybe age, maybe a AD, maybe the guy got some jugs for Christmas, only way to know is to ask, and who cares? If the engine is in good shape I’d take newer jugs over older ones


6 vs. 4, fuel wise not a big difference, but as I recall the 6 is the least desirable, power V weight and all, but it is smooth

Outside of a analyzer requiring a couple extra probes, the rest of your avionics doesn’t care how many jugs

TX to CA in a 150 is a fun flight

Personally if I was the guy I’d get a 14-7 or a taylorcraft

 

[Gary Ward]

@Swale a 172C is a great plane and that engine isn't as scary as others have said. However, this plane in the current shape and with current avionics sounds like it's for time building, not owning. For time builders, it is priced right.

But... if you have time and are handy

1. Strip the paint and polish it with someone experienced. You should do the majority of the work. This is a LOT of work. Think on the order of 1 or more weeks.
2. Have a shop so the leading edge, ailerons, and other control surfaces a color of your choice.
3. With an AP buddy open it up and clean the heck out of it. We're talking mineral wash and an aluminum scrubber. Give that a week or so time wise.
4. Order an interior that you and an AP buddy can install.
5. Have it weighed.

Now judge if that's a good deal, money wise.

My hangar neighbor stripped his 172 a few years ago with a pressure washer and paint stripper in his hangar. Luckily it was in the next hangar building over from my hangar building. We talked about it early on and he said he could do it in a couple days, he and his son.

I listened to that pressure washer for over a month until he got it all stripped. To his credit he keep flying the plane as they were stripping it after installing the new wing. It turned out to be huge job stripping that 172. They used all different techniques to get the paint off.
Then he spent many weeks polishing that plane. They had decals applied on the leading edges.
There is RV8 right behind my hangar that is polished also. Both plane owners spend quite a bit of time polishing their birds. The polishing never stops if you want to protect the plane without a paint finish.

Oh yea the reason they stripped it is because they were practicing engine out training and the engine power did not come back in time and they clipped a tree on landing at our airport.The paint was really bad also chipping most everywhere on it. So the wing came off and was repaired by Williams Airframe Components and it came back with shinny new metal and they wanted to match the new wing. They worked on the finish of this plane for several months. When this picture was taken the bottom on the fuselage bottom of the wing was not stripped yet.

 

[Sundancer]

At least explore the clubs around you - many are set up for traveling, as in, taking the airplane and hitting the road for a week. My old club provided for multi-day reservations as a matter of course. I forget the exact process, but it was something like being able to have a single 3+ day reservation on the schedule at a time. Less than 3 days was just normal scheduling. And there was no daily mimnmum hour charge - you could be out a week at Grandma's and the hours flying there and back were all you paid for.

I traveled for some years in our club 172, which was very well equipped. But a 172 is sloooow. I'm in a Piper club now. It's equipped fine, too, and is also slooooow.

 

[Rgbeard]

I'm sorry, but there's something wrong, probably between the control wheel and the seat with the airplane.

Needing six new cyl at 200hrs? Seriously?

And now the compressions look wheezy?

 

[Swale]

I'm sorry, but there's something wrong, probably between the control wheel and the seat with the airplane.

Needing six new cyl at 200hrs? Seriously?

And now the compressions look wheezy?

yes I had that concern also but have heard conflicting views on continental compressions being lower than lycoming, doesn’t look like I’ll be going any further with the above mentioned aircraft however it’s nice to be informed as I go forward.

 

[Swale]

@Swale a 172C is a great plane and that engine isn't as scary as others have said. However, this plane in the current shape and with current avionics sounds like it's for time building, not owning. For time builders, it is priced right.

But... if you have time and are handy

1. Strip the paint and polish it with someone experienced. You should do the majority of the work. This is a LOT of work. Think on the order of 1 or more weeks.
2. Have a shop so the leading edge, ailerons, and other control surfaces a color of your choice.
3. With an AP buddy open it up and clean the heck out of it. We're talking mineral wash and an aluminum scrubber. Give that a week or so time wise.
4. Order an interior that you and an AP buddy can install.
5. Have it weighed.

Now judge if that's a good deal, money wise.

interesting, it was kind of my thoughts I used to be a automotive body shop technician so am a little handy at paintwork although as this really was a hour building aircraft I didn’t want to get too involved in a major project. I know me once I get started it can become a bit of a mission LoL. The thing that always concerns me more is the mechanical side. I don’t have a friendly technician as yet.

I’m based at Phoenix az (KFFZ) incase anyone knows anyone

 

[texasclouds]

Cut the oil filter open and look for metal.

Budget $45k for a certified rebuild with install. No one offers new O-300 cranks anymore, so shops that have serviceable units will want big money($6500-9500). The magnesium oil sumps also are unobtainable (and they get corrosion in the bottom of them), but there is a new approved spray welding process to repair them ($1500). I just went down this road and it took 6 months all-in.

Sound advise would be to buy an airframe that is the way you want it. Nice condition, nice instrument panel, decent paint. Budget for an engine overhaul in case it is needed. Imagine having to do the engine then slap it on an airframe you aren’t proud of. Don’t buy a beater. Find someone’s baby, cradle it in your arms, nurture her, feed her, love her, and be prepared to pay for Yale even if she is a little slow.

 

[Dan Thomas]

@Swale a 172C is a great plane and that engine isn't as scary as others have said. However, this plane in the current shape and with current avionics sounds like it's for time building, not owning. For time builders, it is priced right.

Are you a mechanic with experience in old Cessnas? Doesn't sound like it.

 

[Dan Thomas]

Personally if I was the guy I’d get a 14-7 or a taylorcraft

That Bellanca has wooden wings. It is subject to an annual AD to check for delamination over the entire surface of both wings and a check for softness of the wood at the spar roots. One of our students bought one for time-building, and at the first annual the mechanics found the spar roots rotten. The airplane went to the salvage yard. If moisture isn't kept out of those airplanes, they die. And it's not just rain; it's blowing snow that gets into everything. The sealing of the wing root fairings is really critical.

https://drs.faa.gov/browse/excelExternalWindow/6108616e-7ec1-47ee-a3d4-05fdd9f6051c?modalOpened=true

Oh, and that airplane in the picture isn't a 14-7, which had a radial. It's a 14-13-2.

 

[kyleb]

If I was in the market for a $45K airplane, I'd go buy a Piper Tomahawk for $35K and use the other $10K for upgrades/repairs.

 

[SamSES]

That Bellanca has wooden wings. It is subject to an annual AD to check for delamination over the entire surface of both wings and a check for softness of the wood at the spar roots. One of our students bought one for time-building, and at the first annual the mechanics found the spar roots rotten. The airplane went to the salvage yard. If moisture isn't kept out of those airplanes, they die. And it's not just rain; it's blowing snow that gets into everything. The sealing of the wing root fairings is really critical.

https://drs.faa.gov/browse/excelExternalWindow/6108616e-7ec1-47ee-a3d4-05fdd9f6051c?modalOpened=true

Oh, and that airplane in the picture isn't a 14-7, which had a radial. It's a 14-13-2.

Sounds like he didn’t get a prebuy

Lots of wooden airplanes doing just fine

 

[Dan Thomas]

Lots of wooden airplanes doing just fine

And lots aren't.

Wishful thinking does not trump knowledge, experience, and sound advice. It never did and never will.

I restored and owned a wooden airplane for 27 years and am intimately acquainted with the problems. I am a retired a Canadian AME (equivalent to US A&P/IA) and am also familiar with old Cessnas, in particular, that were nothing but heartbreak for their buyers. Their wishful thinking, or the advice of other pilot friends that "those old airplanes are good old airplanes. Can't go wrong" led them into little or no flying and a lot of expensive repairs. Age does terrible things to airplanes, even low-time airplanes. Corrosion and rot never stop. All you can do is retard it some.

 

[Sundancer]

One of the first recommendations I tell potential new aircraft owners is to pick their mechanic first who will maintain their new aircraft. Then you can get them involved in this discussion from the get-go to include any prebuys. No matter who else helps you with an aircraft purchase its your A&P/IA who will let you know how well you did at your 1st annual inspection. Airworthiness is half objective and half subjective to the person making that determination. Plenty of 1st annual horror stories on PoA to learn from. Good luck.

Taking this to heart - thanks!