Kristen Rose
Filing Flight Plan
- Joined
- Sep 28, 2022
- Messages
- 8
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GmaKissin'
I am looking for information on the Wheeler Express aircraft(s), specifically the earlier years.
PDF attached.There is a flight test article on the cafe foundation’s website. Very unfavorable view of the aircraft’s flying qualities. Rudder and elevator controller issues in certain circumstances.
I'm sorry for your loss.Unfortunately, my father's case was labeled as pilot error. The subsequent accidents that caused fatalities were noted to have tail issues as well, but the cause would be mechanical issues and not pilot error. I hope that this search will finally put Ken Wheeler into the spotlight. How can he not answer for the irresponsibility that occurred on the first model which was all done or directed by Wheeler himself? I may have been young when my father's plane crashed, but I'm an adult now and will seek justice and correction. RIP Charles R. Gietzen 7/25/1990, Lynch WY.
. I do know that it was not pilot error..... it was overloaded to save a buck.
Company demonstrator aircraft. Pilot was presumably employed by Wheeler; was flying to to Oshkosh 1990. It's not in the NTSB report (SEA90FA146), but seem to recall at the time, the thought was that the aircraft was overloaded with marketing material in addition to the pilot and two passengers. Pilot had 750 hours in the aircraft, 13 in the past 30 days. Aircraft was observed to spin in. Some speculation the pilot was performing aerobatics was based on the pilot's pre-flight comments, but the NTSB notes this might have been just a joke.I'm sorry for your loss.
1. Pilots of experimental aircraft have a great deal of responsibility in understanding what they are flying.
2. A design that results in a difficult to control aircraft is not a mechanical issue.
3. Guess who's ultimately and legally responsible for the airworthiness (IE: lack of mechanical issues) of an aircraft? The pilot.
Unless "Wheeler" forced your father to fly the aircraft, or committed some sort of fraud, I'm afraid you are tilting at windmills.
Interesting. The OP certainly is shotgunning blame. It was a mechanical issue, a design fault, and he was forced to fly out of W&B.Company demonstrator aircraft. Pilot was presumably employed by Wheeler; was flying to to Oshkosh 1990. It's not in the NTSB report (SEA90FA146), but seem to recall at the time, the thought was that the aircraft was overloaded with marketing material in addition to the pilot and two passengers. Pilot had 750 hours in the aircraft, 13 in the past 30 days. Aircraft was observed to spin in. Some speculation the pilot was performing aerobatics was based on the pilot's pre-flight comments, but the NTSB notes this might have been just a joke.
Only 21 accidents in my 1998-2020 database not enough for any real conclusions. Just about the same number of accidents over the time period as the Vans RV-10.
Ron Wanttaja
Pilot background on this is interesting. 750 hours in the Wheeler, but 1274 total time with just a Private ticket. Which meant he had just ~500 hours at the time he started flying for Wheeler.Interesting. The OP certainly is shotgunning blame. It was a mechanical issue, a design fault, and he was forced to fly out of W&B.
750 successful hours by this pilot kinda kills the "design fault" and the other two are both called out specifically by regulation as the pilots responsibility. Even assuming it would be 100% just, I don't know how you could win that one in court. Steep hill to climb.
Ok, I’m definitely confused. Can you clarify what you consider to be justice? Who should apologize for precisely what? what is the injustice? You aren’t being clear.I do not plan to seek any type of court or legal things. I am seeking the justice for the two pilots who were wrongfully labeled as being in error. I am seeking a chance to understand the earlier version of the plane for a documentary I am making for my university and would like to ask pilots about their experiences. My apologies if my words came across wrong in my previous statement.
Overall, after I clear the pilot's names, I would love an apology in person......which should have been done 32 years ago in my opinion.
I have grieved long enough and appreciate the chance to speak freely on this forum.
I think he was referring to me, not you. But you certainly seem to be more interested in being angry than anything else.Unfortunately, here we end up in a gray area regarding true responsibility. Sure, as the PIC, everything was ultimately his responsibility. But his employer probably assigned him to fly the plane to Oshkosh, and told him he'd be carrying two passengers along with a lot of marketing material. His job may have depended on his taking the flight as ordered. Sitting in a nice comfortable chair in front of the computer, a defiant response is easy. Not so easy if the wrong decision would have resulted in unemployment. @Ron Wanttaja
I would have to say that unemployment would have been better than the result that happened, especially if the pilots felt otherwise and were forced. I also appreciate your mention of a defiant response while sitting in a comfortable chair at a computer. If you mean to say "sitting at a computer retrieving data for an assignment" then thank you. Otherwise, I would appreciate any personal negative comments to yourself.
Wasn’t referring to either of you. I was referring to “Monday Morning Quarterbacking” by those who don’t accept that a pilot’s decision process can be affected by non-aviation factors. Yes, it shouldn’t be. But in the real world it is.I think he was referring to me, not you. But you certainly seem to be more interested in being angry than anything else.
Salty, if you felt my comment was directed at you, I apologize. You pointed out, quite rightly, that the safety of flight is solely the PIC’s responsibility.I think he was referring to me, not you.
Salty, if you felt my comment was directed at you, I apologize. You pointed out, quite rightly, that the safety of flight is solely the PIC’s responsibility.
I’ve just read too many accident reports where outside factors affected the pilot’s decision making. There is plenty to learn from these cases, but there are too many folks who claim that THEY would never do that. And thus they don’t recognize when such factors are working on them.
I always scoffed at people who ran out of gas. Until the day I put 14 gallons of gas into 16 gallon tank. The circumstances seemed logical at the time….
Ron Wanttaja
Overall, after I clear the pilot's names, I would love an apology in person......which should have been done 32 years ago in my opinion.
Why? I thought you only wanted to do a documentary?Keep the buzz up!!! This was not pilot error!
as I said, keep up the buzz. I love hearing from others outside of this platform talk about this.
Keep the buzz up!!! This was not pilot error!
I'm not an aeronautical engineer, have only flown a Wheeler for a few minutes (as a passenger), but I do have a pretty extensive database of homebuilt aircraft accidents.I am not sure I have a keeper to answer to, but for giggles and transparency I will answer.
I believe that a good documentary shows both sides without bias. While I have bias being one of the pilots daughter, the others on this feed do not. I would prefer raw data and it can not get any more raw than this.
as I said, keep up the buzz. I love hearing from others outside of this platform talk about this.
This was not pilot error!
Keep the buzz up!!! This was not pilot error!