Did I almost get scammed?

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machkhatib

Pre-takeoff checklist
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Sep 21, 2013
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Mach
I recently reached an agreement to purchase a Piper Cherokee for $45,000 cash and was filling in the contract details to send to the seller. It turns out the seller wasn’t the legal owner but was the seller’s agent. Ok, no problem yet. I say we’ll use Aerospace Reports to handle escrow and he flips out. He wants $45,000 in paper cash.

The deal felt too suspicious so I walked away. Was it a scam?

Copy-and-pasted text messages below:

Seller: I have a signed bill of sale already from [LEGAL OWNER] as well as the registration is also signed by him. But any contract to sell the airplane will be through me.

Me: Ok. And payment would go to you or [LEGAL OWNER]?

Seller: It will go to me. As cash.

Me: Ok. I will use an escrow company, most likely aerospace reports. So I’ll wire them the cash, once they get all the necessary documents from your side and I tell them the pre-buy inspection was satisfactory, they’ll wire your payment. Let me finish up the contract and I’ll email it to you.

Seller: No no. I don’t want to go through an escrow. It’s a cash ($100 bills) deal. The plane leaves when it’s paid in full.

Me: It will be paid in full. Cash would literally be wired to your account before I fly away with the airplane. Me bringing a briefcase of $45,000 in paper currency is… insane.

Large transactions (e.g. buying/selling a house) always goes through escrow. Escrow gives both parties peace-of-mind that (1) seller really owns the plane and filled out the necessary transfer docs, and (2) buyer really has the cash (and it’s not counterfeit or anything crazy like that).

Please understand that if you need $45,000 in paper currency, that, combined with the fact you aren’t the legal owner of the airplane, would be a huge red flag. I’m hoping you’re ok with escrow so we can do this deal.

Seller: I’ve used escrow and I will not again. It will only be a cash deal. That’s the only reason I came down on the price like I did. It’s a deal breaker for me if it’s not an actual paper cash transfer.

Me: When people say “cash” they mean they don’t require financing and cash will be wired to your account. Nobody does $45,000 in paper cash. That’s a great way to get robbed-at-gunpoint or scammed.

If you’re serious about making this deal happen, I’m sure we can alleviate your concerns and handle payment professionally instead of like a drug deal.

Seller: I’ve done 12 aircraft deals the past year all in cash. Most in excess of $100k.

So when I say cash I actually mean cash. As do most people.

Sorry [BUYER]. I though I made that clear.

The only way I do escrow is going back to $60,000 selling price.

Me: [SELLER], sorry to hear that. I’m out. Good luck with your sale.
 
Could be. I have had to do large cash deals but have wired the money. But I agree, that refusal to do escrow would be a problem.
 
Scam. He’s trying to avoid a paper trail.

He may have been scamming you, selling an airplane he wasn’t legally entitled to sell. He may have been scamming the legal owner, telling him it sold for a lesser amount. Or it might be a tax scam. Or he might be hiding money from an ex-spouse.

All sorts of ways it could be fishy.

Did you contact the actual owner?
 
My guess is the last flight it took was from Mexico and for whatever reason it avoided DEA interception, but now the tail number is too compromised to reuse it.
 
How to commit suicide in two easy steps.

1. tell someone you never met that you’ll meet them at location x with $43,000 in cash
2. Show up at location x
 
EdFred said:
Tail number and location? I'll show up with cash and an AR. :eek:
Click to expand...

Deep South - everyone here has ARs. :D

But that won’t protect you if the FAA shows up a month later because you got scammed and bought a stolen plane
 
Salty said:
How to commit suicide in two easy steps.

1. tell someone you never met you’ll meet them at location x with $43,000 in cash
2. Show up at location x
Click to expand...

That's what a spotting scope is for!
 
Half Fast said:
Scam. He’s trying to avoid a paper trail.

He may have been scamming you, selling an airplane he wasn’t legally entitled to sell. He may have been scamming the legal owner, telling him it sold for a lesser amount. Or it might be a tax scam. Or he might be hiding money from an ex-spouse.

All sorts of ways it could be fishy.

Did you contact the actual owner?
Click to expand...

No. I responded to a post on Trade-a-Plane. Seller later revealed he was acting as the Seller’s agent and was not the legal owner of the plane. He was adamant everything had to go through him and said the legal owner already signed the paperwork to transfer ownership. He never provided any contact info for the owner. When I asked for the owner’s address to fill in the contract, he said to use his address instead. So little bells started ringing in my head - “this is starting to feel a bit off” - and the air raid siren finally blared when I brought up escrow.

If he was a scammer, he knew a lot about the plane (all of the info he provided checked out on aviationdb.net) and he responded to all of the technical questions like he knew what he was talking about. I was ready to proceed up until he freaked out about escrow.
 
EDIT: Post with identifying information deleted. See page 2 for resolution to this story.
 
Last edited:
Cash or Check…Cash around here means bills…and I bought a Documented Sportsfisherman for a few bills more than that two years ago…although I had him meet me at the bank and withdrew the funds and exchanged the paperwork. Called a day ahead to make sure they had the cash on hand…it was a good deal and that was the condition. I was dealing with the owner as well and probably would not have done it third party as well…
 
Warlock said:
Cash or Check…Cash around here means bills…and I bought a Documented Sportsfisherman for a few bills more than that two years ago…although I had him meet me at the bank and withdrew the funds and exchanged the paperwork. Called a day ahead to make sure they had the cash on hand…it was a good deal and that was the condition. I was dealing with the owner as well and probably would not have done it third party as well…
Click to expand...

If the owner of the plane told me to hand him cash, that’s quite different from handing cash to an agent who claims to represent the owner but the owner is completely absent from the transaction.

Too risky.

Someone else should offer him $55K and inquire how he wants to handle payment. If he says cash, we’ll all know it’s a scam of some sort.
 
Hopefully you viewed the logbooks. Contact the mechanic who signed off the January annual for information. It would be interested to see what he says.
 
EDIT: Post with identifying information deleted. See page 2 for resolution to this story.
 
Last edited:
machkhatib said:
Chestnut Charters has a website and a Facebook page. That’s a lot of effort if it really is a scam. I’m leaning towards he’s just hard to deal with and/or might be skimming sales proceeds from the owner.
Click to expand...
Or he’s been scammed in the past.
 
machkhatib said:
Chestnut Charters has a website and a Facebook page. That’s a lot of effort if it really is a scam. I’m leaning towards he’s just hard to deal with and/or might be skimming sales proceeds from the owner.
Click to expand...
Most successful crooks work far harder than honest folks do. It’s why I never understood why people do it. They work twice as hard to avoid working.
 
EDIT: Post with identifying information deleted. See page 2 for resolution to this story.
 
Last edited:
machkhatib said:
No. I responded to a post on Trade-a-Plane. Seller later revealed he was acting as the Seller’s agent and was not the legal owner of the plane. He was adamant everything had to go through him and said the legal owner already signed the paperwork to transfer ownership. He never provided any contact info for the owner. When I asked for the owner’s address to fill in the contract, he said to use his address instead. So little bells started ringing in my head - “this is starting to feel a bit off” - and the air raid siren finally blared when I brought up escrow.

If he was a scammer, he knew a lot about the plane (all of the info he provided checked out on aviationdb.net) and he responded to all of the technical questions like he knew what he was talking about. I was ready to proceed up until he freaked out about escrow.
Click to expand...


Look up the tail number on the FAA website and it should give you the name and address of the owner. Send him a letter.
 
machkhatib said:
Chestnut Charters has a website and a Facebook page. That’s a lot of effort if it really is a scam. I’m leaning towards he’s just hard to deal with and/or might be skimming sales proceeds from the owner.
Click to expand...


If this is the website, https://www.chesnutcharters.com/profile-1 , it looks incomplete. And building a website and a Facebook page is a trivial effort if it’s being used to scam tens of thousands.
 
machkhatib said:
I recently reached an agreement to purchase a Piper Cherokee for $45,000 cash and was filling in the contract details to send to the seller. It turns out the seller wasn’t the legal owner but was the seller’s agent. Ok, no problem yet. I say we’ll use Aerospace Reports to handle escrow and he flips out. He wants $45,000 in paper cash.

The deal felt too suspicious so I walked away. Was it a scam?

Copy-and-pasted text messages below:

Seller: I have a signed bill of sale already from [LEGAL OWNER] as well as the registration is also signed by him. But any contract to sell the airplane will be through me.

Me: Ok. And payment would go to you or [LEGAL OWNER]?

Seller: It will go to me. As cash.

Me: Ok. I will use an escrow company, most likely aerospace reports. So I’ll wire them the cash, once they get all the necessary documents from your side and I tell them the pre-buy inspection was satisfactory, they’ll wire your payment. Let me finish up the contract and I’ll email it to you.

Seller: No no. I don’t want to go through an escrow. It’s a cash ($100 bills) deal. The plane leaves when it’s paid in full.

Me: It will be paid in full. Cash would literally be wired to your account before I fly away with the airplane. Me bringing a briefcase of $45,000 in paper currency is… insane.

Large transactions (e.g. buying/selling a house) always goes through escrow. Escrow gives both parties peace-of-mind that (1) seller really owns the plane and filled out the necessary transfer docs, and (2) buyer really has the cash (and it’s not counterfeit or anything crazy like that).

Please understand that if you need $45,000 in paper currency, that, combined with the fact you aren’t the legal owner of the airplane, would be a huge red flag. I’m hoping you’re ok with escrow so we can do this deal.

Seller: I’ve used escrow and I will not again. It will only be a cash deal. That’s the only reason I came down on the price like I did. It’s a deal breaker for me if it’s not an actual paper cash transfer.

Me: When people say “cash” they mean they don’t require financing and cash will be wired to your account. Nobody does $45,000 in paper cash. That’s a great way to get robbed-at-gunpoint or scammed.

If you’re serious about making this deal happen, I’m sure we can alleviate your concerns and handle payment professionally instead of like a drug deal.

Seller: I’ve done 12 aircraft deals the past year all in cash. Most in excess of $100k.

So when I say cash I actually mean cash. As do most people.

Sorry [BUYER]. I though I made that clear.

The only way I do escrow is going back to $60,000 selling price.

Me: [SELLER], sorry to hear that. I’m out. Good luck with your sale.
Click to expand...


Is there a legitimate reason for only wanting cash? I can't think of any.

Personally, I would not pay more than $100 in cash for anything. The only thing I paid for with cash in the past 5 years is highway tolls. Even that I was very irritated that there wasn't a way to pay with credit card.
 
This “deal” is obviously a scam and smells like skunk road kill.
 
sarangan said:
Personally, I would not pay more than $100 in cash for anything. The only thing I paid for with cash in the past 5 years is highway tolls. Even that I was very irritated that there wasn't a way to pay with credit card.
Click to expand...

I don’t mind paying cash and the discount that comes with it. Granted, I’m not referencing an aircraft such as mentioned in this thread.
 
Hmm, I think you need a bill of sale from the owner directly to you. So the owner should be involved in one way or another. He (the representative) could be an older guy, new to the internet or something, I mean I don’t think it’s a scam but definitely red flags, if anything they should have got a deposit from you first.

You could ask for a broker to be involved? But yes if it feels weird and you’re unable to work it out over a phone call, walk away and keep looking.
 
machkhatib said:
I recently reached an agreement to purchase a Piper Cherokee for $45,000 cash and was filling in the contract details to send to the seller. It turns out the seller wasn’t the legal owner but was the seller’s agent. Ok, no problem yet. I say we’ll use Aerospace Reports to handle escrow and he flips out. He wants $45,000 in paper cash.

The deal felt too suspicious so I walked away. Was it a scam?

Copy-and-pasted text messages below:

Seller: I have a signed bill of sale already from [LEGAL OWNER] as well as the registration is also signed by him. But any contract to sell the airplane will be through me.

Me: Ok. And payment would go to you or [LEGAL OWNER]?

Seller: It will go to me. As cash.

Me: Ok. I will use an escrow company, most likely aerospace reports. So I’ll wire them the cash, once they get all the necessary documents from your side and I tell them the pre-buy inspection was satisfactory, they’ll wire your payment. Let me finish up the contract and I’ll email it to you.

Seller: No no. I don’t want to go through an escrow. It’s a cash ($100 bills) deal. The plane leaves when it’s paid in full.

Me: It will be paid in full. Cash would literally be wired to your account before I fly away with the airplane. Me bringing a briefcase of $45,000 in paper currency is… insane.

Large transactions (e.g. buying/selling a house) always goes through escrow. Escrow gives both parties peace-of-mind that (1) seller really owns the plane and filled out the necessary transfer docs, and (2) buyer really has the cash (and it’s not counterfeit or anything crazy like that).

Please understand that if you need $45,000 in paper currency, that, combined with the fact you aren’t the legal owner of the airplane, would be a huge red flag. I’m hoping you’re ok with escrow so we can do this deal.

Seller: I’ve used escrow and I will not again. It will only be a cash deal. That’s the only reason I came down on the price like I did. It’s a deal breaker for me if it’s not an actual paper cash transfer.

Me: When people say “cash” they mean they don’t require financing and cash will be wired to your account. Nobody does $45,000 in paper cash. That’s a great way to get robbed-at-gunpoint or scammed.

If you’re serious about making this deal happen, I’m sure we can alleviate your concerns and handle payment professionally instead of like a drug deal.

Seller: I’ve done 12 aircraft deals the past year all in cash. Most in excess of $100k.

So when I say cash I actually mean cash. As do most people.

Sorry [BUYER]. I though I made that clear.

The only way I do escrow is going back to $60,000 selling price.

Me: [SELLER], sorry to hear that. I’m out. Good luck with your sale.
Click to expand...
I would have walked long before you did.
 
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