ha! yeah.. it crossed my mind because of Wayne's comment about Angel Flights and the previous one about flying to Mexico.. more of a thought exercise than a practical one
The Wayne / Steingar Mexico/Angel Flight got me wondering. If someone wanted to, could they potentially get their Sling / RV-10 or whatever officially turned into a Part 23 - or is this a type of bourgeoise decadence reserved for established manufacturers and those with $$$ vs just tons of paperwork with no practical benefit to most
Interesting, there was a diesel engine powered Cirrus with an 'experimental' sticker on it that I was reading about recently.. which made me wonder what the real world practicality is to it. Sounds like not much, unless you're genuinely doing R&D work (like building a new engine).. a reference is here, although a Google for 'EPS Graflight' will turn up results: https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2014/may/15/rutan-flies-new-diesel
Agreed. And while the FAA website is free and spells this all out, there's a big difference in simply asking an expert for the 'human answer' vs pouring through reams of PDFs
Hey Nauga, what is "special airworthiness certification as experimental/exhibition"? Is it a different designation for an "experimental aircraft"?
21.191
Usually give up halfway through and leave more confused than I started.
What do you mean by "high performance 4 seater" that RV-10 doesn't fit?
In my view not really. Whats the biggest complaint people give about E/AB aircraft selection? Too small, short, legs, etc. They've done numerous Super Cub knock offs, why not a Cessna 206 or 210 knock off? Piper Malibu knock off? Etc. Something with more mainstream performance figures. With all the latest tech, AUTOCAD, 3D printing, composites, etc. surely someone would/could develop something like that? You don't need to invent something just copy something. For example, why doesn't someone buy a intact wreck of say a Cessna 206, disassemble it, scan all the piece-parts (ribs, bulkheads, etc.), 3D print all the pieces out of whatever material and reassemble it as an ACME 206 Plus. You could throw on a conventional engine or maybe put one of those high-tech Corsair engines on it.
Curious with an honest question. With no FAA approval component except the AWC and no production liability cost component why is it so expensive? Isn't that close to the price of a new 172 even with no labor costs? Didn't realize they cost so much and I wonder why the cost argument still points fingers at the FAA for being the cost driver on TC aircraft.
It's monopoly money. A man can dream. But yeah, I heard the ie2 was in the 85k range. Which is double what the D4A5 runs. Still half the price of a new G36.
Learn something everyday. So given what the current prices are on these E/AB aircraft, any discussion/whine about how the FAA is keeping the GA industry down or even my argument its tort liability driven no longer hold merit. It simply market driven/demand when you spend basically the same amount on a new E/AB as you do a new Cessna 172. Mind boggling. No wonder nobody is trying to build new aircraft under the Part 23 rewrite. Thanks.
Maybe, but “value” is somewhat subjective to the person. Does that $250k RV price include labor costs? And what is the current average build time for a -10? If its 8 years as you stated that must also inflate the cost somewhat. But even though my original query was more to a larger plane like a 206 vs a 172, I still did not realize how expensive these E/AB have become. However, I don’t think a 172 is a good comparison to a RV-10. What Piper product is comparable to an RV-10?
But that is subjective as well and is provided you compare apples to apples. TC and E/AB owners both perform maintenance because they want to, not simply because they can. If you compare a TC owner who performs all the prevent mx he can legally and include common owner-assist items the costs are very similar. Granted he needs the assistance of an APIA at times but he seeks them out to perform the mx because he wants to.
I think this is the singular reason people go E/AB. And with these current prices I don’t see how the cost of upkeep between a TC vs E/AB aircraft will be that much different now.
Why not? There are literally new entrepreneurial M/Billionaire every year in most other industries to include various aviation venues... except in E/AB. Seems like a viable project ripe for anyone's picking especially with todays technology and all the "desire" to have a "6 place 21st century Bo’" E/AB.
Hey Ronald, welcome to Pilots of America!
So the market changed which in turn drove prices up? Same thing happened in the TC world as well and drove up costs. But I attributed that to a "social" shift away from manual work to clean work. Interesting.
i wouldn't say it stokes the ego factor necessarily. I have a 10" skyview system in my RV-4, it will never see the inside of a cloud. I do not, and never will have a IFR certifed GPS in it however. I don't see the need to have that capability in when it will never be needed in that aircraft. do I need it? no, but I wanted it. in defense, it does make it easier to fly since there is little room in an RV-4 to even look at a chart, so it is very nice to have everything I need in available on the efis.
it really has been over the last 25 to 30 years really. when I got into the EAB world in the early 90's it was mostly still the build everything, dig up what you could and make something work for you, that really changed in the mid to late 90's. it really started took off when dynon came up with the d-10 and van started to pre-punch skins. it took off after that in a big way especially when the quick build kits hit the market.
Are these type owners doing the general upkeep during the year or are they waiting for condition time and have the AP get everything fixed? This was the same change in my TC world. Years ago my owner-assist owners were keeping things kept up so when annual time came around no big deal. Then they started just showing up with a disc list which grew further and only got done at annual time. Kept asking whats the point to stay owner-assisted if you're not going to fix anything which in turn increased the their annual costs significantly even with them pulling panels, etc. I finally culled the herd back to those who wanted to work at this 24/7/365. As I said I saw this as a generational thing which appears to have included E/AB as well.