Delta drops degree requirement for pilots ...

“Delta has not stated if the change to its hiring guidelines is a result of the hiring shortage the airline industry has faced.“

Ya think?
 
The change is because Delta had to agree to a flow with it’s owned connection carrier or lose the ability to fly additional large RJ’s. Some pilots at that carrier do not have degrees. Legal stepped in pointing out they were opening themselves up to lawsuits without a consistent policy. They now have that. The degree will be heavily weighted making the possibility of getting hired extremely difficult without one. A relatively high percentage of Delta hires have a masters.
 
Yep. Just like the 1000 hours PIC turbojet at UPS. They say it’s not required but everyone they hire has it in the logbook. There will not be a flood of pilots hired without degrees. In fact I would bet it will only be flows as stated above.
 
When did this ya gotta have a degree thing start anyway? Is there a history that pilots with degrees are better than those without?
 
luvflyin said:
When did this ya gotta have a degree thing start anyway? Is there a history that pilots with degrees are better than those without?
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It’s been like that my entire career. Hired at first airline in 2000.

No. It does not make anyone a better pilot. It is very much a thing here in the US and not a thing most other places.
 
luvflyin said:
When did this ya gotta have a degree thing start anyway? Is there a history that pilots with degrees are better than those without?
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There is no direct link between a degree and flying ability that I know of. However, a degree does indicate one's ability to stick with something for four years and demonstrate atleast a minimum level of performance. Based on my hiring experience (not necessarily in the flying business), those who reliably show up for work tend to have an academic degree. The ones who blow things off at the last minute or have reliability problems tend to be in the other category. Again, this is just an average observation. I am certain there are exceptions to every case. An employee's reliability and punctuality is just as important as their technical skills.
 
luvflyin said:
When did this ya gotta have a degree thing start anyway? Is there a history that pilots with degrees are better than those without?
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When you have thousands of applicants, it makes for an easy parameter to whittle it down to a number that's more manageable.

I will say that with the numbers everyone is trying to hire, the 'competitive' minimums have been rapidly dropping everywhere. Guys are getting hired on now that couldn't get a look a couple of years ago. It's a whole different ballgame today.
 
Early 90s if you didn’t have a degree, you weren’t even looked at by anyone. And yes a degree has zero bearing on a pilots ability, work ethic, or value.
 
kayoh190 said:
When you have thousands of applicants, it makes for an easy parameter to whittle it down to a number that's more manageable.

I will say that with the numbers everyone is trying to hire, the 'competitive' minimums have been rapidly dropping everywhere. Guys are getting hired on now that couldn't get a look a couple of years ago. It's a whole different ballgame today.
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Having dealt with a few low-quality hires, I think we would have been better off to keep the job vacant a while longer. The harm they did far outweighed the benefit.
 
I think perhaps it started with military. My understanding, even pre WW2 that to be a pilot you had to be an officer, and to be an officer you typically needed at least some college. This was waived during the war with folks like Chuck Yeager becoming flying Sergeants but I think it returned after the war...to be a pilot one needed to be an officer.

TommyG said:
Early 90s if you didn’t have a degree, you weren’t even looked at by anyone. And yes a degree has zero bearing on a pilots ability, work ethic, or value.
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I have a running theory that in my parent's day, a person could do ok without a HS diploma but you needed a HS diploma to get the "good jobs". In my day, a person could probably do just ok WITH a HS diploma but they needed an undergrad degree to get the basic level "good jobs". Basically the idea is that the value of education is being diminished, probably because if everyone goes to college, then it doesn't make you stand out.

Now it seems that you need an undergrad degree to do just ok and higher level grad school to stand out....but I'm starting to think it's less clear. There are plenty of people with skilled trades jobs that don't necessarily require college, that are making more money and are probably happier than I am with my degree in engineering.

Half Fast said:
Press release from American Airlines: Delta No Longer Requires Pilots To Be Educated.
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I'm pretty sure that was from their marketing department ;)
 
Half Fast said:
Press release from American Airlines: Delta No Longer Requires Pilots To Be Educated.
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American has been hiring pilots without degrees for a long time. United as well. Delta was the only legacy carrier that had a hard requirement. The others heavily preferred a degree but did occasionally hire without a degree.
 
Half Fast said:
Having dealt with a few low-quality hires, I think we would have been better off to keep the job vacant a while longer. The harm they did far outweighed the benefit.
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Removing a degree requirement at a legacy carrier is not lowering the standards. In many cases it increases the quality of new hires. I know a guy that is in new hire training at delta. He has never been a captain and has barely logged 1000 hours of 121 experience. Went straight to 121 from cfi job. But don’t worry. He has a degree. On the other hand guys with check airman experience and tens of thousands of hours will never be looked at because they don’t have a degree. Until now. It’s a smart move on deltas part. The degree ******** was requiring them to hire very low time pilots to fill classes.

It will still be heavily preferred because of culture within the recruiting departments but it’s a fallacy to think it makes a better pilot or the lack of a requirement means less qualified pilots are being hired.
 
What a bummer for the folks who were sold on a 4 year degree from UND or Embry Riddle as the ticket to a Delta or FedEx job.

When you have lots of applicants you can ask for the moon. Happens in every imdustry.
 
weilke said:
What a bummer for the folks who were sold on a 4 year degree from UND or Embry Riddle as the ticket to a Delta or FedEx job.

When you have lots of applicants you can ask for the moon. Happens in every imdustry.
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Those people will still get selected over the people without degrees.
 
Delta has lots of experience with pilots without degrees. At one point there were a large number from various mergers. A pilot without a degree can be every bit as good as a pilot with a PHD. That’s not the norm however. Delta also tracks new hire performance with their credentials when hired. It’s a feedback system. Delta is not concerned with flying ability to a great extent. They know at this level applicants have that ability and training would quickly weed out the handful that might slip through. They are looking for the guy that can make the right call with a aircraft anywhere in the world in shutting the operation down. A flight canceled in Tel Aviv can cost the company half a million dollars. A flight not canceled in Tel Aviv might cost the company vastly more.
If a pilot wants to get hired without a degree he needs to have a very strong non flying background with management experience.
 
Jeff767 said:
Delta has lots of experience with pilots without degrees. At one point there were a large number from various mergers. A pilot without a degree can be every bit as good as a pilot with a PHD. That’s not the norm however. Delta also tracks new hire performance with their credentials when hired. It’s a feedback system. Delta is not concerned with flying ability to a great extent. They know at this level applicants have that ability and training would quickly weed out the handful that might slip through. They are looking for the guy that can make the right call with a aircraft anywhere in the world in shutting the operation down. A flight canceled in Tel Aviv can cost the company half a million dollars. A flight not canceled in Tel Aviv might cost the company vastly more.
If a pilot wants to get hired without a degree he needs to have a very strong non flying background with management experience.
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How does a four year degree prepare someone for that flight in Tel Aviv?
 
Let me ask you this. In high school the students who were sharp and excelled in school and extra curricular activities generally but not always did what after high school?
 
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My understanding is that neither Bob Hoover or Chuck Yeager had college degrees. Maybe airlines are just trying to keep out such lackluster pilots.
 
Both are great pilots, they may or may not have made good airline pilots. I know someone heavily involved in hiring for a law enforcement program. They found over time that the officers with better education backgrounds made better judgement calls, had fewer complaints and triggered fewer lawsuits. In short they showed better judgement.
 
People always want to prove their point by pointing to the exception. “Bill Gates is a billionaire and he quit college.” I had a coworker that would not where a seat belt because someone he knew died in a car crash while wearing a seat belt. Or more recently, he had the vaccine and died anyway so I am not getting the vaccine.

Surprisingly, the herd is actually often correct in their assessment of the situation.
 
Tarheelpilot said:
Just like I thought... it does not prepare someone for that day in Tel Aviv.
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Then don’t get a degree. Why argue about it? You are arguing about how the world should be, ignoring how it is.

My daughter had to write a crap load of essays to eventually get into medical school. None of which would make her a better doctor. But she was smart enough to write the essays anyway, rather than whine about how unfair the world is.
 
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I don’t think there’s that much conspiratorial thought that goes into the degree/no-degree requirement. I think it’s just selectivity. The more credentialed the candidate, the better hiring bet (think odds). There’s probably some HR study but not actuarial science behind it, but at its core, it’s just another box check for a better chance at a better candidate when the resume folder is chock full. When that folder gets thin, it’s time to change the limitations. Simple supply & demand. My opinion only of course.
 
Morgan3820 said:
Then don’t get a degree. Why argue about it? You are arguing about how the world should be, ignoring how it is.

My daughter had to write a crap load of essays to eventually get into medical school. None of which would make her a better doctor. But she was smart enough to write the essays anyway, rather than whine about how unfair the world is.
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I made that decision for myself over twenty years ago. I'm not arguing. I'm engaged in a discussion. I'm not whining about anything being unfair. I don't whine. That behavior is for petulant children. Neither of which describe me.

Edit:

Just where did you get the idea that I'm ignoring how it is in the industry? Every post I have made clearly indicates that having a degree is extremely beneficial to ones career. It makes getting hired at a legacy airline much easier. I never whined about that either. I'm not really sure exactly what gave you the idea I was complaining. I just stated the truth. Its easier to get hired but it doesn't make you a better pilot and sometimes they don't consider highly qualified candidates because they don't have degrees. What is whiny about those statements?
 
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Jeff767 said:
Both are great pilots, they may or may not have made good airline pilots. I know someone heavily involved in hiring for a law enforcement program. They found over time that the officers with better education backgrounds made better judgement calls, had fewer complaints and triggered fewer lawsuits. In short they showed better judgement.
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Cops and degrees was one of the other industries I was thinking about when I wrote my comment. I always thought there should be a degree requirement, but I noticed that a good number of the recent bad policing incidents actually involved well educated officers. I don't think colleges are great at teaching judgement.
 
Definitely interesting times. Never thought Delta would have another flow or drop the degree requirement. I still think 99% of the people that get called will have degrees.
 
DavidWhite said:
The desire to wear a hat indoors and be part of the most smug pilot group in the world are also heavily weighted
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You know why Delta pilots never loosen their ties?

They don't want the foreskin to pop out of their collar.

edit: For the slower people in the conversation: This was a joke.
 
jordane93 said:
Definitely interesting times. Never thought Delta would have another flow or drop the degree requirement. I still think 99% of the people that get called will have degrees.
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I did not think they would either and I agree it will be a very small number of people hired without the degree. It is an interesting time for sure. I can remember when my friends that were furloughed from legacy carriers would watch the obituaries for pilots hoping to see some movement in recalls and when there were going to be 100 pilot slots everyone was excited because of how much hiring there would be for the year. To think that almost 10,000 pilots will be hired this year alone at the majors is hard to process. Never seen anything like it in my career.
 
Jeff767 said:
Let me ask you this. In high school the students who were sharp and excelled in school and extra curricular activities generally but not always did what after high school?
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Most earned engineering degrees. A handful earned medical degrees.
(Based on those in my 1979 graduating class)
 
Every change in hiring is aimed at increasing “diversity.” I’m not quite sure how that ties into this, but you can bet that it does.
 
About 30% of the US population has a 4 year degree. That’s a tough market to recruit from methinks. How many of those folks have any desire to fly let alone the skills it would require?
 
Tarheelpilot said:
I did not think they would either and I agree it will be a very small number of people hired without the degree. It is an interesting time for sure. I can remember when my friends that were furloughed from legacy carriers would watch the obituaries for pilots hoping to see some movement in recalls and when there were going to be 100 pilot slots everyone was excited because of how much hiring there would be for the year. To think that almost 10,000 pilots will be hired this year alone at the majors is hard to process. Never seen anything like it in my career.
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I think the end of year number for us was almost 800 pilots added to the seniority list in 2021. My buddy didn’t even finish OE at JetBlue and got hired by Delta. Quite a change from a year and a half ago.
 
455 Bravo Uniform said:
There’s probably some HR study but not actuarial science behind it, but at its core, it’s just another box check for a better chance at a better candidate when the resume folder is chock full.
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Plenty of studying and classroom work involved in indoc and type ratings. It may well be that the airline has data that shows that people who have demonstrated the ability to study towards a degree for 3-4 years have a higher likelihood to complete that part of their training on the first try.
 
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