Androids or iSheep?

MacFlier said:
Fltplan Go on iPad. Got an ipad because Iay upgrade to foreflight someday. For now, I enjoy the free app!
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Being a noob I got the free FltPlanGo to explore. Any drawbacks in the real world that you have found? I'd like to learn ONE and stick with it.
 
Robert Gee said:
I have a completely irrational dislike for iProducts so I'm wondering if there are some useful aviation apps that are iExclusive or if Android devices are completely viable. Anyone use Androids exclusively?
I love my 10" Primetime tablet from AT&T for a few years and I can get 3-4 for the price of one ️iThing!️
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Most of the pilots I fly with have Foreflight. I am sure it is nice but I don't have a compelling need to look for another app when I have been very happy with Avare.
 
Robert Gee said:
Being a noob I got the free FltPlanGo to explore. Any drawbacks in the real world that you have found? I'd like to learn ONE and stick with it.
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So far, it's been solid. There are a few drawbacks, they are minor to me though (weekend renter):
- Integration with Avionics: it works well with most but sometimes it doesn't receive traffic from Avydine units (Garmin is ok)
- When you file IFR thru the app, you won't receive your route unless you pay for a premium feature. So if you get a different route, you have to change the route on the app manually and then upload that to the avionics.
- Weather briefing is rather poor. I usually go directly to 1800wxbrief instead
 
MacFlier said:
So far, it's been solid. There are a few drawbacks, they are minor to me though (weekend renter):
- Integration with Avionics: it works well with most but sometimes it doesn't receive traffic from Avydine units (Garmin is ok)
- When you file IFR thru the app, you won't receive your route unless you pay for a premium feature. So if you get a different route, you have to change the route on the app manually and then upload that to the avionics.
- Weather briefing is rather poor. I usually go directly to 1800wxbrief instead
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I'm happy with FltPlan Go for the EFB basics — moving map, approach plates, AFD/CFS, flight planning, W&B, etc. Agreed that Garmin Pilot or ForeFlight gives more in exchange for $$$, but they want a lot of $$$ for those extra bells and whistles. I keep FltPlan Go on my tablet as a backup, and actually had to use it the other day when I'd messed up moving GP's storage back from the external SD card to main storage on my Android tablets, and discovered in the air the approach plates weren't there (for VFR practice approaches). It took only a few seconds to fire up FltPlan Go instead, and it worked fine.

None of the apps (including the $$$ ones) does a great job with Canadian weather briefings and NOTAMs, so that's not a factor for me; I just go to Nav Canada's site to get what I want.
 
Had a GDL-50 so I was tied to Garmin Pilot. Tried running that on various android tablets without good results. Finally gave up and bought an iPad mini. Then my GDL bricked on an update. Now I am using Stratux and iFly GPS, which seems to work better on Android than iPad.
 
I've used DroidEFB for a long time. It plays nice with a variety of brands of panel equipment. It will display ADSB traffic and WX from my NGT9000. I've used it on a Nexus 7, Nexus 9, and it now resides on a Samsung S5E
 
With the latest announcement about upcoming Apple software, we're looking to dump the iphones relatively soon. I suspect that the company that I work for will dump the 50-60,000 iphones we have before the end of the year too.
We've got nothing to hide, but the decision to forcibly scan the phone for content doesn't sit well with privacy concerns.
 
Craig said:
With the latest announcement about upcoming Apple software, we're looking to dump the iphones relatively soon…
We've got nothing to hide, but the decision to forcibly scan the phone for content doesn't sit well with privacy concerns.
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Link?

I watch a couple tech shows and this hasn’t come up, and seems to run counter to Apple’s overall commitment to security to date.
 
FastEddieB said:
Link?

I watch a couple tech shows and this hasn’t come up, and seems to run counter to Apple’s overall commitment to security to date.
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It's all over the news. The short version is Apple is proposing to scan all customer's phones for child porn... admirable, but a very dangerous precedent from a privacy standpoint.
 
Craig said:
With the latest announcement about upcoming Apple software, we're looking to dump the iphones relatively soon. I suspect that the company that I work for will dump the 50-60,000 iphones we have before the end of the year too.
We've got nothing to hide, but the decision to forcibly scan the phone for content doesn't sit well with privacy concerns.
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That's just it. You don't have to be hiding child p**n or bomb-making instructions on your phone to have legit reasons for not letting a private company scan it.

For example, I have confidential emails and PDF downloads from my IT consulting clients. None of them happens to be a direct competitor to Apple, but I have many colleagues who've consulted for Google, Microsoft, etc.

Doctors may have confidential information about their patients, and lawyers may have highly sensitive information about their clients. Apple should not have a right to look at any of that, no matter how virtuous their stated aim or how solemnly they swear not to use any of the information they're scanning.
 
Dana said:
It's all over the news. The short version is Apple is proposing to scan all customer's phones for child porn... admirable, but a very dangerous precedent from a privacy standpoint.
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Correct, and they are already starting this for the Chinese government for things they determine to be anti-government. If you remember back a couple of years ago, Apple refused the request from the FBI to break into a dead terrorist's phone, citing privacy concerns and here they are now telling us that they are going to break into every iphone to look for possible kiddie porn. Kinda throws their privacy squawking out the window now.

And additionally, it will also scan all your text messages for key words that Apple construes as porn indicating or grooming for exploitation.
 
Craig said:
Apple refused the request from the FBI to break into a dead terrorist's phone, citing privacy concerns ...
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After criticizing Apple in my previous post, I think it's only fair to defend them here. What they actually told the FBI is that they didn't have a way to break into the phone — their encryption didn't have a hidden back door. I respected them for that then. They've squandered that respect now.

It's a good rule of thumb in cybersecurity that if you build a hidden back door, the bad guys will find and exploit it long before law enforcement benefits from it.
 
David Megginson said:
I'm happy with FltPlan Go for the EFB basics — moving map, approach plates, AFD/CFS, flight planning, W&B, etc. Agreed that Garmin Pilot or ForeFlight gives more in exchange for $$$, but they want a lot of $$$ for those extra bells and whistles. I keep FltPlan Go on my tablet as a backup, and actually had to use it the other day when I'd messed up moving GP's storage back from the external SD card to main storage on my Android tablets, and discovered in the air the approach plates weren't there (for VFR practice approaches). It took only a few seconds to fire up FltPlan Go instead, and it worked fine.

None of the apps (including the $$$ ones) does a great job with Canadian weather briefings and NOTAMs, so that's not a factor for me; I just go to Nav Canada's site to get what I want.
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My view is that cost is not the reason why people choose low cost options like Avare. As others pointed out, the subscription cost is quite insignificant compared to flying costs. Similarly, cost is not the reason why I run Linux or why I do all repairs on my car. Cost is also not the reason why I fly. It is cheaper and more comfortable to drive. We do these things for expressing our independence from the clutches of corporate power. I'd rather fly in a noisy 182 getting bounced around rather than subject myself to TSA searches and sit in 31F unless I really have no other options.
 
Does any of you really think you have privacy on your phones? Seriously, these things are information transmitters and they’re always listening. If you want privacy and personal information security? Don’t carry a smart phone.
 
sarangan said:
My view is that cost is not the reason why people choose low cost options like Avare. As others pointed out, the subscription cost is quite insignificant compared to flying costs. Similarly, cost is not the reason why I run Linux or why I do all repairs on my car. Cost is also not the reason why I fly. It is cheaper and more comfortable to drive. We do these things for expressing our independence from the clutches of corporate power. I'd rather fly in a noisy 182 getting bounced around rather than subject myself to TSA searches and sit in 31F unless I really have no other options.
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That's a very rational PoV, but pilots are rarely rational about small costs — haven't you ever heard one of us go off the rails when they see a $10 landing fee added to a $250 fuel bill for their $150K plane?

Here in Canada, where we've had privatised ATC for a couple of decades, there are still owners who think that the mandatory US ~$60/year fixed fee we pay to Nav Canada for a light piston single is the beginning of the end for general aviation
 
I have been using FF on an ipad for years. I never recall having the earlier ipads overheat, and I think the batteries lasted longer back then. I have tried almost all the apps and I keep going back to what I am most comfortable using. If Avare works for you on your android, use it. I used to spend more than $200 on paper charts every year.
 
Stewartb said:
Does any of you really think you have privacy on your phones? Seriously, these things are information transmitters and they’re always listening. If you want privacy and personal information security? Don’t carry a smart phone.
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Don't buy into the absolutism — it's not either-or. As with pandemics, the realistic goal is harm reduction. Yes, I know the government of China or the U.S. can figure out a away to get into my phone if I rise to the top of their person-of-interest list and they're willing to invest serious resources in it; but that doesn't mean I leave my phone unlocked on the table when I go to a restaurant washroom.

There are five main kinds of security risks you have to worry about with your phone:
  • loss or theft of your device
    • mitigations: enable encryption (standard on phones for a number of years now); don't use fingerprint/face/proximity unlock; choose a strong password; always lock your phone when it's not in your hand
  • mobile carriers can track your movements based on which cell towers you connect to
    • mitigations: turn off phone/data when you don't need it; don't take your phone anywhere you don't want to be tracked
  • the hardware and OS themselves can have hidden backdoors
    • mitigations: keep up with security updates (for accidental back doors); otherwise, you have to rely on the hacker community to detect this with their constant, paranoid testing (it's a bit easier with an open-source OS like Android, where they can look at the code, but still no guarantees something doesn't slip by them)
  • the apps you install can be malicious
    • mitigations: use the browser instead of apps whenever possible (you don't need an app to read a newspaper or discussion forum); when you do install apps, don't grant more than the minimum permissions necessary; don't install apps from dubious publishers
  • you can be tricked into revealing information via social engineering, as infamously happened to the DNC in the 2016 U.S. election campaign
    • mitigations: "Trust, but verify" (Ronald Reagan)
People who live under authoritarian regimes like China, Belarus, Russia, Saudi Arabia, or (to a lesser extent) Hungary already know this stuff, because their livelihoods — or in some cases, lives — might depend on it.
 
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David Megginson said:
After criticizing Apple in my previous post, I think it's only fair to defend them here. What they actually told the FBI is that they didn't have a way to break into the phone — their encryption didn't have a hidden back door. I respected them for that then. They've squandered that respect now.
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That was true at the time. They also refused to allow their software guys to even attempt to get past the access problem, stating that the dead terrorist's privacy was more important to the company than compromising their integrity.
This coming update, from what I read, will be a forced update for every phone and ipad in the US. I already had a problem with Apple updates trying to force me to log in via my wifi, and this doesn't help. I've kept my phone in low power mode and disabled gps, find the phone, siri and auto updates for years now. We don't have an Echo Dot, Alexia or any IoT device at home for a variety for reasons, none of where were security related to start with. Sure would like my old Motorola StarTac back.....
 
Craig said:
That was true at the time. They also refused to allow their software guys to even attempt to get past the access problem, stating that the dead terrorist's privacy was more important to the company than compromising their integrity.
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That could be true, but it sounds more like a shouty take from a Fox News commentator like Hannity or Carlson.

I think it's more likely the FBI simply didn't believe that Apple wouldn't have left a secret back door. Apple was saying "there's literally nothing we can do that the FBI can't." The quote I heard about privacy was explaining why they designed it that way in the first place.
 
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Dana said:
... Apple is proposing to scan all customer's phones for child porn... admirable, but a very dangerous precedent from a privacy standpoint.
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Yep ... I have an iPhone and have no desire for inappropriate content of any kind. But I agree that this is setting a very dangerous precedent as to the privacy of one of my communication devices. This may be the straw that makes me throw my brand new iPhone in the creek. They really should rethink this ... :nono:
 
David Megginson said:
That could be true, but it sounds more like a shouty take from a Fox News commentator like Hannity or Carlson.
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I know it does, but the FBI ended up going to court in an attempt to force Apple to build a software load to defeat the locking part of phone software after trying to contract with them. The case got dropped when a third party was able to break the locking software and gain access for the FBI. Lots of stuff going back and forth over that, back in 2016. Since then, at least one new case has gone against an individual about using facial recognition locking on a laptop. Court ruled that merely sitting in front of a laptop camera was not a violation of the 5th amendment and the 4th. Screwy rulings from my point of view.
 
Craig said:
I know it does, but the FBI ended up going to court in an attempt to force Apple to build a software load to defeat the locking part of phone software after trying to contract with them.
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If that's the case, do you think it had anything to do with "protecting a dead terrorist's privacy", or was that just a right-wing rant? If I were running Apple, my real concern would be damaging the company's reputation (and losing billions in future sales) by showing how its software security could be breached. Apple couldn't stop someone else from trying that, but I can see them fighting tooth and nail to avoid having to plunge the knife in themselves.
The case got dropped when a third party was able to break the locking software and gain access for the FBI.
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I wondered from the start why the FBI didn't just bitwise copy the encrypted drive to a virtual image, then automate a modified dictionary password attack (resetting every time to avoid lockout). I've never played with Apple's stuff, but I assume a motivated 15-year-old hacker could do that in a few days if they had physical access to the device, and the password wasn't strong -- and clearly, someone did.

It's absurd that the FBI wasted weeks on a pointless legal action against Apple, unless the real goal was to punish them publicly in the media for including strong security in the first place. Maybe the FBI needs to fire a few of the people in suits and replace them with teenagers from a hacker chatroom. :-/

(Note that I'd normally be characterised as an "Apple hater" -- I have no love for the company or its products. I think there's a lot Apple needs to be called out on, but that isn't one of them.)
 
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Individual privacy is a self-evident right, where corporations and governments shouldn't have any expectations of privacy. Yet we continue to do this backwards. This isn't about "saving the children", it's about a corporation believing that they should maintain control of a device that individuals own. That Apple Corp believes it has the *right* to inspect your child's phone. Who exactly is the predator here? It's people renting their own little 1984 machines. The spots where we need added transparency aren't people's homes.

As to the closed source solution, why are we still doing this? It's 2021 for crying out loud, and it isn't just Apple. Why governments continue to purchase telecommunications devices without any access to the source code is baffling to me. Your spreadsheet doesn't need to be updated every 6 months to improve your company's productivity. General business software and networking, and the associated security issues, is an incredible waste of money.

Sorry about the rant. Maybe they're just looking to find copies of music that they think they own, and the children angle seemed more palatable than them using your device to search for other people's files.
 
“Others do it too!” is not a defense.

But is this correct?

51364697164_8128b71de9_z.jpg
 
FastEddieB said:
“Others do it too!” is not a defense.

But is this correct?

51364697164_8128b71de9_z.jpg
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Facebook makes phones?

Or is someone hoping to confuse the issue by conflating scanning stuff uploaded to a social-media site or cloud service with scanning stuff on a person's own device?
 
I found more about Apple's plans here:

https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-58145943

It's looking more and more ludicrous. Apple claims that they will scan only photos that are being uploaded to iCloud, but in that case, why blast a hole in the device's security perimeter and scan them on the device end instead of just scanning them on the server end like other cloud services do? iCloud isn't zero knowledge, so there's nothing to prevent that.

The only reason to install something on the device itself is to allow for future surveillance expansion. Since much of Apple's reputation (rightly or wrongly) is based on a claim of being more secure than its competitors, this is a bizarre move -- basically, they're pre-installing a virus on their own devices. I wonder if something's gotten into Cupertino's drinking water.
 
Every time I see this thread:
images (4).jpeg
Anybody else?
 
I'd never heard of that book before. So no. But now I probably will. Thanks.
 
Jim K said:
The downside is that it costs 4x as much as similar hardware with the android operating system. I use both (although less ios by choice) and find the Androids to be more intuitive. Of course I prefer windows computers to Apple as well, so it's probably just a personality flaw of mine.
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I'm not much of an Apple user, but I have developed software for them. I disagree that iPhones and iPads cost 4x as much as Android devices - the basic iPad is really excellent value at $329, and I think you'd be hard pressed to get a similarly specced Android device for that price. It is also true that Apple charges a lot for memory upgrades. The higher end iPads simply do not have any direct competitors in the Android world as the Apple chips are so far ahead of their Qualcomm equivalents.

What the Android world does have is cheaper tablets. If you want a new tablet for $100, Apple can't help you.
 
CaptainXap said:
Apple chips are so far ahead of their Qualcomm equivalents.
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That's true of the newest M1 chip in the top-end $$$ iOS "pro" devices, so if you're doing hard-core gaming or graphics rendering, you're probably better off in the Apple ecosystem. But for other hardware aspects, high-end Android devices are comparable or (sometimes) better their iOS counterparts. CPU speed by itself is a narrow lens.

https://www.sammobile.com/news/galaxy-tab-s7-vs-ipad-pro-2021/
 
Key word on original post is: irrational. He said it, not I.
 
CaptainXap said:
I'm not much of an Apple user, but I have developed software for them. I disagree that iPhones and iPads cost 4x as much as Android devices - the basic iPad is really excellent value at $329, and I think you'd be hard pressed to get a similarly specced Android device for that price. It is also true that Apple charges a lot for memory upgrades. The higher end iPads simply do not have any direct competitors in the Android world as the Apple chips are so far ahead of their Qualcomm equivalents.

What the Android world does have is cheaper tablets. If you want a new tablet for $100, Apple can't help you.
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I'd phrase that as Android has less expensive tablets. I've worked with people that support both, and have seen no evidence that either is significantly more reliable than the other. In terms of speed, they are all already fast enough. I can display a moving map on a phone in real time on anything currently made today. Why do I need more? Computers and phones have been fast enough for normal consumer and business applications for 10 years for phones, 30 for computers, games and specialized apps excepted. It's an expensive cycle based around making technology disposable to support the software industry.
 
Interesting fact: Apple will not allow an Android device to access files on iCloud, as I learned yesterday when my brother in law sent me a video link. No problem accessing it with windows, though.
 
Rene Ritchie is a podcaster that’s pretty much up on all things Apple.

I have not watched it yet, but I expect this to be a comprehensive and unbiased take on this latest Apple brouhaha:

 
I am pretty sure Apple is getting paid to gather this data...why would they do this otherwise...follow the money and you will see the bigger picture.
 
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