Alternate Missed Approach

[2nd505th]

Where do I find the information on how to fly the alternate missed? Also what if an approaches missed requires equipment I do not have, does that mean I cannot fly the approach.

For example, kcha ils rwy 2 missed seems to require ADF. I don’t have one. So I’m thinking I’d have to fly the alternate.

 

[Mrtibs]

I'm still working on my instrument rating so take it for what it's worth. Since you have no ADF you should coordinate to fly the alternate missed. I thought if you had a panel installed GPS with all the waypoints for the ILS approach you could still use the primary missed approach. I'll have to do some digging to find references for you.

 

[luvflyin]

Where do I find the information on how to fly the alternate missed? Also what if an approaches missed requires equipment I do not have, does that mean I cannot fly the approach.

For example, kcha ils rwy 2 missed seems to require ADF. I don’t have one. So I’m thinking I’d have to fly the alternate.

The controller reads the Alternate to you. Here it is https://www.faa.gov/aero_docs/acifp...CHA-NDBR/TN_CHA_ILS OR LOC RWY 2, AMDT 7D.pdf
The primary does require ADF but GPS is an authorized substitute

 

[aterpster]

The controller reads the Alternate to you. Here it is https://www.faa.gov/aero_docs/acifp/NDBR/201705093318781I003-CHA-NDBR/TN_CHA_ILS OR LOC RWY 2, AMDT 7D.pdf
The primary does require ADF but GPS is an authorized substitute

Generally the alternate missed approach is not used by ATC unless the primary missed approach isn't available because of a nav aid outage. Policy is to design alternate missed approaches when the primary missed approach requires a nav aid different than the nav aid that provides the final approach (typically an ILS).

The note "ADF required" cannot be waived by the pilot or ATC. It is FAR 97. As you say, GPS can be substituted for the requirement of that note.

 

[RussR]

Generally the alternate missed approach is not used by ATC unless the primary missed approach isn't available because of a nav aid outage. Policy is to design alternate missed approaches when the primary missed approach requires a nav aid different than the nav aid that provides the final approach (typically an ILS).

The note "ADF required" cannot be waived by the pilot or ATC. It is FAR 97. As you say, GPS can be substituted for the requirement of that note.

This is correct. And when the primary missed Navaid goes out, a NOTAM will be sent implementing the alternate missed (and telling you what the routing is). While the alternate missed holding pattern is shown on the chart, the routing to get there is not, specifically to avoid confusion and to reduce the likelihood of the pilot flying the wrong one.

 

[2nd505th]

I appreciate the responses. So now I know the notam does not go out until the primary is unavailable. I guess I would not be able to fly this approach since I do not have an ADF or GPS.

 

[luvflyin]

This is correct. And when the primary missed Navaid goes out, a NOTAM will be sent implementing the alternate missed (and telling you what the routing is). While the alternate missed holding pattern is shown on the chart, the routing to get there is not, specifically to avoid confusion and to reduce the likelihood of the pilot flying the wrong one.

Yeah. The Alternate Fix being charted also reduces a lot of verbiage. The missed approach instruction can end with 'hold as published' instead of 'hold southeast on the choo choo 152 radial.' And ya get a nice picture. No excuse for getting lost in holding.

 

[2nd505th]

The controller reads the Alternate to you. Here it is https://www.faa.gov/aero_docs/acifp/NDBR/201705093318781I003-CHA-NDBR/TN_CHA_ILS OR LOC RWY 2, AMDT 7D.pdf
The primary does require ADF but GPS is an authorized substitute

Can you tell me how to search for this same type of information for other airports.

 

[luvflyin]

I appreciate the responses. So now I know the notam does not go out until the primary is unavailable. I guess I would not be able to fly this approach since I do not have an ADF or GPS.

You could get the Alternate Missed without there being a Notam. Controllers can issue it any time they have a need. One application is when running Timed Approaches. Every other airplane gets the Alternate.

 

[luvflyin]

Can you tell me how to search for this same type of information for other airports.

https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/flight_info/aeronav/procedures/

 

[RussR]

You could get the Alternate Missed without there being a Notam. Controllers can issue it any time they have a need. One application is when running Timed Approaches. Every other airplane gets the Alternate.

Do you have any examples of this happening?

 

[luvflyin]

Do you have any examples of this happening?

KHIO. The ILS 13R. Radar coverage there is not low enough to use Radar separation on final so they run Timed Approaches. They do it with a Radar Interval because Radar coverage is high enough to establish airplanes on the Localizer outside of DOLLA. I’m sure there are others. You don’t always get a ‘time’ when timed approaches are in progress.

 

[midlifeflyer]

KHIO. The ILS 31. Radar coverage there is not low enough to use Radar separation on final so they run Timed Approaches. They do it with a Radar Interval because Radar coverage is high enough to establish airplanes on the Localizer outside of DOLLA. I’m sure there are others. You don’t always get a ‘time’ when timed approaches are in progress.

Must be a typo. There is no ILS 31 at KHIO. Do you mean the ILS 13R or a different airport altogether?

 

[luvflyin]

Must be a typo. There is no ILS 31 at KHIO. Do you mean the ILS 13R or a different airport altogether?

It wuz a pyto. Thx

 

[Radar Contact]

Do you have any examples of this happening?

As @luvflyin mentioned, we can do it anytime we have a need. If I have conflicting IFR traffic that could possibly be within 1000/3 of the missed, I may issue alternate missed instructions before switching you to CTAF or have the tower do it. Sometimes in busy terminal airspace you just don’t have the room. I’m in the flat lands so I’m not sure how/if controllers in mountainous terrain handle that.

 

[aterpster]

As @luvflyin mentioned, we can do it anytime we have a need. If I have conflicting IFR traffic that could possibly be within 1000/3 of the missed, I may issue alternate missed instructions before switching you to CTAF or have the tower do it. Sometimes in busy terminal airspace you just don’t have the room. I’m in the flat lands so I’m not sure how/if controllers in mountainous terrain handle that.

Are you using an alternate missed approach procedure on the Terps forms or a radar vectored missed approach?

 

[Radar Contact]

Are you using an alternate missed approach procedure on the Terps forms or a radar vectored missed approach?

I’ve been a pilot for 20 years and a controller for almost 19. I know essentially nothing about terps (never done an office job) and don’t recall seeing a form. I’m talking heading and altitude (a delayed radar vector so to speak). If a published missed won’t work for low actual or practice IFR requested missed it goes like this, “N123 I have alternate missed approach instructions, advise ready to copy”. Then I give a heading and altitude (that I can protect) for them to use on the missed that meets the same criteria as an IFR departure off that airport. If it’s towered I may just tell the tower to issue the alternate missed. I’m not alone in this. I don’t know if that answers what you were looking for?
*I certainly am not speaking on behalf of the FAA here*

 

[midlifeflyer]

I’ve been a pilot for 20 years and a controller for almost 19. I know essentially nothing about terps (never done an office job) and don’t recall seeing a form. I’m talking heading and altitude (a delayed radar vector so to speak). If a published missed won’t work for low actual or practice IFR requested missed it goes like this, “N123 I have alternate missed approach instructions, advise ready to copy”. Then I give a heading and altitude (that I can protect) for them to use on the missed that meets the same criteria as an IFR departure off that airport. If it’s towered I may just tell the tower to issue the alternate missed. I’m not alone in this. I don’t know if that answers what you were looking for?
*I certainly am not speaking on behalf of the FAA here*

Pretty sure he was talking about the charted alternative missed and not the very typical vectored missed.

 

[Radar Contact]

Pretty sure he was talking about the charted alternative missed and not the very typical vectored missed.

I was replying to an example request when @luvflyin said this, “You could get the Alternate Missed without there being a Notam. Controllers can issue it any time they have a need.” I do understand it can get confusing with NOTAM’ed alternate missed based on NAVAID outages, etc.

 

[eman1200]

...the Localizer outside of DOLLA. I’m sure there are others.....

missed approach at DOLLA make you HOLLA

 

[RussR]

I was replying to an example request when @luvflyin said this, “You could get the Alternate Missed without there being a Notam. Controllers can issue it any time they have a need.” I do understand it can get confusing with NOTAM’ed alternate missed based on NAVAID outages, etc.

"The" Alternate Missed is that contained on FAA Form 8260-3 (or -5) and is a TERPSed routing to the published Alternate Missed Approach Hold. These can (usually) be flown without comm or radar - it's pilot nav. A radar vector missed approach, though routine, is not an Alternate Missed, unless it's specifically published as such on the 8260-3 (and some are). Just assigning a different heading and altitude via radar vectors might constitute an "alternative" missed approach, but it's not the official one.

 

[Radar Contact]

"The" Alternate Missed is that contained on FAA Form 8260-3 (or -5) and is a TERPSed routing to the published Alternate Missed Approach Hold. These can (usually) be flown without comm or radar - it's pilot nav. A radar vector missed approach, though routine, is not an Alternate Missed, unless it's specifically published as such on the 8260-3 (and some are). Just assigning a different heading and altitude via radar vectors might constitute an "alternative" missed approach, but it's not the official one.

Fair enough. As I said before. I’ve always been a worker bee. I don’t know anything about Terps stuff. I just know that all the controllers I know, myself included, say “alternate missed” in the control instructions and at that moment, it becomes very official to the pilot. I probably misspoke in what you were looking for earlier when you asked for an example and I apologize. Like many things, the same terms have alternate meanings here. I’m very familiar with Notam’ed alternate missed as well that officially change the published missed.

 

[aterpster]

Radar vectored missed.... is not an Alternate Missed, unless it's specifically published as such on the 8260-3 (and some are).

Other than an ASR or PAR?

 

[RussR]

Other than an ASR or PAR?

Yes. I recently saw a couple. The alternate missed instructions were SID-like. “Climb to 4000 heading 180 for radar vectors”. Something like that. I don’t remember where they were, but I was kind of surprised. I’ll try to find them tomorrow.

I imagine this probably required a waiver from AFS, as it is decidedly non standard.

 

[luvflyin]

Yes. I recently saw a couple. The alternate missed instructions were SID-like. “Climb to 4000 heading 180 for radar vectors”. Something like that. I don’t remember where they were, but I was kind of surprised. I’ll try to find them tomorrow.

I imagine this probably required a waiver from AFS, as it is decidedly non standard.

Did you find them?

 

[aterpster]

Did you find them?

I too am waiting with bated breath.

 

[RussR]

Did you find them?

I too am waiting with bated breath.

Thanks for the reminder!

I'm not going to comment on the usefulness or lack thereof of having a radar required alternate missed approach, but here you go, a few samples.

AUS ILS 35R: https://www.faa.gov/aero_docs/acifp...US-NDBR/TX_AUS_ILS OR LOC RWY 35R, AMDT 4.pdf
SAN ILS Y 9: https://www.faa.gov/aero_docs/acifp...-SAN-NDBR/CA_SAN DIEGO_IYLY09_SAN_UPDATED.pdf
OPF ILS 9L: https://www.faa.gov/aero_docs/acifp/NDBR/2016062128729901001-OPF-NDBR/FL_MIAMI_OPF_IL09L_AMDT 5.pdf

 

[midlifeflyer]

Thanks for the reminder!

I'm not going to comment on the usefulness or lack thereof of having a radar required alternate missed approach, but here you go, a few samples.

AUS ILS 35R: https://www.faa.gov/aero_docs/acifp/NDBR/2017042826775301001-AUS-NDBR/TX_AUS_ILS OR LOC RWY 35R, AMDT 4.pdf
SAN ILS Y 9: https://www.faa.gov/aero_docs/acifp/NDBR/2018112731681801006-SAN-NDBR/CA_SAN DIEGO_IYLY09_SAN_UPDATED.pdf
OPF ILS 9L: https://www.faa.gov/aero_docs/acifp/NDBR/2016062128729901001-OPF-NDBR/FL_MIAMI_OPF_IL09L_AMDT 5.pdf

The more I know, the more I realize "there are more things in heaven and earth..."

 

[luvflyin]

Thanks for the reminder!

I'm not going to comment on the usefulness or lack thereof of having a radar required alternate missed approach, but here you go, a few samples.

AUS ILS 35R: https://www.faa.gov/aero_docs/acifp/NDBR/2017042826775301001-AUS-NDBR/TX_AUS_ILS OR LOC RWY 35R, AMDT 4.pdf
SAN ILS Y 9: https://www.faa.gov/aero_docs/acifp/NDBR/2018112731681801006-SAN-NDBR/CA_SAN DIEGO_IYLY09_SAN_UPDATED.pdf
OPF ILS 9L: https://www.faa.gov/aero_docs/acifp/NDBR/2016062128729901001-OPF-NDBR/FL_MIAMI_OPF_IL09L_AMDT 5.pdf

There they are. I was expecting they’d be Military. While we’re here, the ILS Y 9 at SAN says PT requires use of DME. Don’t think I’ve seen that before either.

 

[aterpster]

There they are. I was expecting they’d be Military. While we’re here, the ILS Y 9 at SAN says PT requires use of DME. Don’t think I’ve seen that before either.

My guess: The MZB 241 radial doesn't meet fix accuracy requirements. Same note appears on the Z version.

 

[NealRomeoGolf]

Necro post. I have a similar question. The ILS 31 at Springfield KSPI has two misses based on whether you have ADF or DME. A couple of questions.

Do you default to the ADF missed and if you can’t you notify Approach that you’re doing the DME alternate?

My GNS 530 defaults to the ADF missed. Is there a way to switch it to the alternate?

 

[aterpster]

Where do I find the information on how to fly the alternate missed? Also what if an approaches missed requires equipment I do not have, does that mean I cannot fly the approach.

For example, kcha ils rwy 2 missed seems to require ADF. I don’t have one. So I’m thinking I’d have to fly the alternate.

Alternate missed approaches are available only to ATC. That's why they are not charted, other than the alternate missed approach holding pattern.

 

[luvflyin]

Necro post. I have a similar question. The ILS 31 at Springfield KSPI has two misses based on whether you have ADF or DME. A couple of questions.

Do you default to the ADF missed and if you can’t you notify Approach that you’re doing the DME alternate?

My GNS 530 defaults to the ADF missed. Is there a way to switch it to the alternate?

View attachment 95938

I can’t think of any way to make the 530 use the GINIA missed. You’d probably have to do it manually. Probably have to ‘deactivate’ the approach or whatever the terminology is, plug in Direct GINIA and then go OBS with a 272 Course To. Probably easier to just VLOC your way onto the 272 radial or use a VHF NAV if you have one in the airplane. Maybe there’s something easier than either of those, I dunno.
Should you/must you notify ATC or not that you’re going to do it. I probably would. Like “if I miss I’m going to GINIA.” Is it required to notify them? The Chart says “DME equipped aircraft...” Equipped. So what does that mean? GPS is an authorized substitute for DME. So do you run with that? Or take it literally that when they say ‘equipped with DME’ they mean ‘equipped.’ Anyway, all that gibberish aside I’m pretty sure it’s not going to be an issue. I’m pretty sure they are going to tell you to do the GINIA thang if you miss. ATC usually don’t have warm feelings about course reversal, right back up into the face of the next airplane type of missed approaches. Look at the link below. This Approach does not have an Alternate Missed Approach Procedure. If it did, it would say so. The Missed Approach is in the upper right and then continues to the next page. Kinda implies what I said above about how they are just going to probably give you the GINIA thing. @aterpster , @RussR , you ever seen anything like this elsewhere?

https://www.faa.gov/aero_docs/acifp/NDBR/201802172761811Z001-SPI-NDBR/IL_SPRINGFIELD_IL31_SPI.pdf

 

[luvflyin]

Alternate missed approaches are available only to ATC. That's why they are not charted, other than the alternate missed approach holding pattern.

Yeah. That’s not really an Alternate Missed Fix. It’s the DME equipped missed fix.

 

[NealRomeoGolf]

I can’t think of any way to make the 530 use the GINIA missed. You’d probably have to do it manually. Probably have to ‘deactivate’ the approach or whatever the terminology is, plug in Direct GINIA and then go OBS with a 272 Course To. Probably easier to just VLOC your way onto the 272 radial or use a VHF NAV if you have one in the airplane. Maybe there’s something easier than either of those, I dunno.
Should you/must you notify ATC or not that you’re going to do it. I probably would. Like “if I miss I’m going to GINIA.” Is it required to notify them? The Chart says “DME equipped aircraft...” Equipped. So what does that mean? GPS is an authorized substitute for DME. So do you run with that? Or take it literally that when they say ‘equipped with DME’ they mean ‘equipped.’ Anyway, all that gibberish aside I’m pretty sure it’s not going to be an issue. I’m pretty sure they are going to tell you to do the GINIA thang if you miss. ATC usually don’t have warm feelings about course reversal, right back up into the face of the next airplane type of missed approaches. Look at the link below. This Approach does not have an Alternate Missed Approach Procedure. If it did, it would say so. The Missed Approach is in the upper right and then continues to the next page. Kinda implies what I said above about how they are just going to probably give you the GINIA thing. @aterpster , @RussR , you ever seen anything like this elsewhere?

https://www.faa.gov/aero_docs/acifp/NDBR/201802172761811Z001-SPI-NDBR/IL_SPRINGFIELD_IL31_SPI.pdf

I did this very approach last night. All ATC gave me was "execute the published miss." No specification on which one. I followed my 530....which took me to CALDE. I had intended to go to GINIA but I was unfamiliar with the approach and just followed the GPS. And then I did right hand turns at CALDE. Idiot. Not once did ATC admonish me.....for either choice - CALDE and right hand turns. I need to review this one with my CFII next time we are together. I was with a safety pilot last night and he was a bit confused too.

 

[aterpster]

I did this very approach last night. All ATC gave me was "execute the published miss." No specification on which one. I followed my 530....which took me to CALDE. I had intended to go to GINIA but I was unfamiliar with the approach and just followed the GPS. And then I did right hand turns at CALDE. Idiot. Not once did ATC admonish me.....for either choice - CALDE and right hand turns. I need to review this one with my CFII next time we are together. I was with a safety pilot last night and he was a bit confused too.

The database providers consider an RNAV navigator to be "DME" equipped.

 

[NealRomeoGolf]

The database providers consider an RNAV navigator to be "DME" equipped.

Which is weird why the 530 then defaults to the ADF missed instead of the DME missed.

 

[NealRomeoGolf]

By the way, Garmin Pilot also loads the CALDE missed for that one and I don't see a way to switch it to the alternate. Anyone with ForeFlight see the same thing?

 

[aterpster]

Which is weird why the 530 then defaults to the ADF missed instead of the DME missed.

My assumption is wrong. I just loaded it into a Garmin trainer and got the ADF missed approach.

 

[luvflyin]

I did this very approach last night. All ATC gave me was "execute the published miss." No specification on which one. I followed my 530....which took me to CALDE. I had intended to go to GINIA but I was unfamiliar with the approach and just followed the GPS. And then I did right hand turns at CALDE. Idiot. Not once did ATC admonish me.....for either choice - CALDE and right hand turns. I need to review this one with my CFII next time we are together. I was with a safety pilot last night and he was a bit confused too.

So much for my speculation that they're probably going to give the GINIA thing verbally to every one. Lets play what if. You have the 530. You also have a DME. An actual standalone DME receiver in the plane. Watcha gonna do if you miss?