Pre-Veterinary Schools

RJM62

RJM62

Touchdown! Greaser!
Joined
Jun 15, 2007
Messages
13,157
Location
Upstate New York
Display Name
Display name:
Geek on the Hill
My niece wants to be a vet. She has wanted to be a vet since she was 2 years old. Seriously. I didn't even know what a vet was when I was 2. But she did.

But my niece also seems to have her heart set on going to Yale, mainly because she liked the campus when she visited.

When I think lawyers, I think Yale. When I think veterinarians, not so much. I'm thinking that Cornell would be a better choice, as does every local vet I've asked. But part of that may be because they're local, and Cornell is a New York college.

I'm going to see her tomorrow for Thanksgiving, and she'll probably ask me what I think. Do the vets here think I should gently nudge her toward Cornell, or would Yale also be a good choice for pre-veterinary?

She has the grades and SATs ( 4.0 and > 1500 respectively ) to go pretty much wherever she wants.

Thanks,

Rich
 
Not to sound discouraging as this is my only experience. Years ago a friend of mine wanted to be a vet. He had the grades and the drive. Seems like when he applied to vet school, there was several thousand applicants for a few openings.

He only applied to Texas A&M vet school so that might have limited his chances of selection.

I am thinking that even for pre-vet it would be better to be at a college that has a school of Veterinary Medicine than a school that doesn't. Who you know beats a grade point average any day.

But what do I know, I don't drive a Tesla or fly a Cirrus.....
 
For what it’s worth, I’ve been throughly underwhelmed by all by 1 Yale grad I’ve met. And that 1 person would have been phenomenal no matter where they went. Just based on my experience I’d recommend a different school regardless of the major.
 
Cornell is probably the best vet school in the country. After that, they are all pretty good.

But just be aware that getting into vet school is tougher than getting into medical school (because there are so few vet schools). Also, Veterinarians don't make much money until a few years AFTER they open their own practice. The money isn't bad, but it doesn't compare to doctors, or even plumbers.

If she got here undergraduate degree at Cornell, that would give her an advantage to get into the Cornell vet school. If she is serious, this is what I would suggest. Also, it will be a huge help to her if she can get a job in a vet clinic to prove that she has the aptitude. Merely "loving animals" is not nearly enough. Every little girl thinks they want to be a vet because they love animals, until they have to wade through all that poop, pea and vomit for a few months.
 
Everyone seems to be focusing on vet schools and where to go. I'll put it a little different. Paraphrasing what well-known vet school said to an incoming class about 4 years ago: "What you study undergrad isn't as important as how well you do. We'd take a French major with an excellent academic record over a 'pre-vet' major with a mediocre record." Pick a school with some name recognition and a major in which she can excel, and go from there. Undergrad at the same school is not necessary, although knowing the faculty (and the faculty knowing you) before you apply can help.

Nauga,
peripherally
 
RJM62 said:
My niece wants to be a vet. She has wanted to be a vet since she was 2 years old. Seriously. I didn't even know what a vet was when I was 2. But she did.

But my niece also seems to have her heart set on going to Yale, mainly because she liked the campus when she visited.

When I think lawyers, I think Yale. When I think veterinarians, not so much. I'm thinking that Cornell would be a better choice, as does every local vet I've asked. But part of that may be because they're local, and Cornell is a New York college.

I'm going to see her tomorrow for Thanksgiving, and she'll probably ask me what I think. Do the vets here think I should gently nudge her toward Cornell, or would Yale also be a good choice for pre-veterinary?

She has the grades and SATs ( 4.0 and > 1500 respectively ) to go pretty much wherever she wants.

Thanks,

Rich
Click to expand...

My nephew has the same interest.

Has visited Cornell, UMass Amherst and Tufts
 
JOhnH said:
Cornell is probably the best vet school in the country. After that, they are all pretty good.

But just be aware that getting into vet school is tougher than getting into medical school (because there are so few vet schools). Also, Veterinarians don't make much money until a few years AFTER they open their own practice. The money isn't bad, but it doesn't compare to doctors, or even plumbers.

If she got here undergraduate degree at Cornell, that would give her an advantage to get into the Cornell vet school. If she is serious, this is what I would suggest. Also, it will be a huge help to her if she can get a job in a vet clinic to prove that she has the aptitude. Merely "loving animals" is not nearly enough. Every little girl thinks they want to be a vet because they love animals, until they have to wade through all that poop, pea and vomit for a few months.
Click to expand...

I know two doctors (one MD and one DO) who admit that they became "people doctors" because they couldn't get into veterinary school. I suspect there are a lot more who won't admit it.

Rich
 
My second oldest daughter wanted to be a vet since grade School. Was salutorian of her HS class, in other words she inherited her brains from her mother.

Went to the University of Wisconsin Madison undergrad. During that time she worked in an oncology lab for animals, which I’m sure made her resume more attractive. Was accepted into the UW vet school, graduated 5 yrs ago.

As has been mentioned earlier, there are many other professions that earn much more per year than vets do. You have to really love what you do to accept that differential. Practice ownership is definitely the top of the pyramid, but after expense of undergrad and vet school, it takes time to get there. I don’t see my daughter achieving that, nor does she want to, as she is preggers with baby number 1. Being a vet will offer her the opportunity to work part time as she is able, however, and still significantly contribute to her household finances.

Best of luck to your niece as she begins the journey toward achieving her dream. She’s way ahead of the game already, as most kids her age don’t have a clue what they want to do with their lives.
 
BTW, around here there are lots of puppy & kitten vets, but very few vets who do large animal practice. The vet we use for our horses drives over 30 miles to get to our place. Depending upon locale, that might be a niche worth considering.

Large animal practice usually is conducted on farm sites, as it isn't practical to transport a herd of cattle or a crippled horse to a vet's office. These folks work out of a pickup truck and spend half their time driving from appointment to appointment. Some have only a small home office for running the business, not for seeing animals. It's hard, demanding work and the animals can be dangerous just because of their size. Consequently, only a few vets take up the field, so it can be quite lucrative.
 
Along with Texas aTm is Oklahoma aTm (also known as Oklahoma State). Good agricultural and veterinary programs. Wife is an OK State grad (her only fault :) ) with degree in Zoology. Like most others said, undergrad school doesn't mean jack for 99% of majors out there. As long as she has excellent grades upon graduation and tries to get some vet-related extra-curriculars in there, she'll be fine when applying to vet schools.
 
Last edited:
If she’s genuinely interested in being a vet, then Cornell is a better choice than Yale.
 
painless said:
My second oldest daughter wanted to be a vet since grade School. Was salutorian of her HS class, in other words she inherited her brains from her mother.

Went to the University of Wisconsin Madison undergrad. During that time she worked in an oncology lab for animals, which I’m sure made her resume more attractive. Was accepted into the UW vet school, graduated 5 yrs ago.

As has been mentioned earlier, there are many other professions that earn much more per year than vets do. You have to really love what you do to accept that differential. Practice ownership is definitely the top of the pyramid, but after expense of undergrad and vet school, it takes time to get there. I don’t see my daughter achieving that, nor does she want to, as she is preggers with baby number 1. Being a vet will offer her the opportunity to work part time as she is able, however, and still significantly contribute to her household finances.

Best of luck to your niece as she begins the journey toward achieving her dream. She’s way ahead of the game already, as most kids her age don’t have a clue what they want to do with their lives.
Click to expand...

Thanks, and congratulations, grandpa.

What's interesting is that for several years, my niece did explore other options, including a few that I suggested (all in STEM fields). But in the end, she's come back to veterinary as her career choice. She also knows that admission to vet school pretty much starts with a 4.0 undergrad GPA (at least according to what vets I know have told me), which I told her back when she was in elementary school; so she "practiced" by exercising enough discipline to maintain a 4.0 GPA in a very difficult Catholic high school.

I have a wee bit of insight into this because I used to service the computers for a bunch of vets who worked at the various racetracks around the NYC Metro Area. When my niece started talking seriously about being a vet, I guess around age 8 or 10, I picked their brains. They all told me pretty much the same things: Maintain a 4.0 GPA as an undergrad, volunteer for every opportunity to work with animals, and go to Cornell.

The only bad thing about working for the vets at the track was that I wasn't allowed to wager for three days after I made a service call. They logged me in at the gate every time I showed up, so they did have a way of knowing. It always seemed such a waste to not be able to place a few bets since I was there anyway.

I'm going to make a list of schools mentioned here and memorize them so it seems "off-the-cuff" when I talk to her tomorrow. She's always thought me smarter than I actually am, so why destroy that fantasy? It would be cruel.

Thanks.

Rich
 
Half Fast said:
BTW, around here there are lots of puppy & kitten vets, but very few vets who do large animal practice. The vet we use for our horses drives over 30 miles to get to our place. Depending upon locale, that might be a niche worth considering.

Large animal practice usually is conducted on farm sites, as it isn't practical to transport a herd of cattle or a crippled horse to a vet's office. These folks work out of a pickup truck and spend half their time driving from appointment to appointment. Some have only a small home office for running the business, not for seeing animals. It's hard, demanding work and the animals can be dangerous just because of their size. Consequently, only a few vets take up the field, so it can be quite lucrative.
Click to expand...
While very important, large animal doesn’t typically pay as well pet vets, unfortunately. Something to consider.

If she is seriously interested in large animal, you might want to look at Colorado State or UC Davis.
 
I went to Virginia Tech, my wife went to Virginia Tech, and our vet went to Virginia Tech.

We're all three great people and my vet hasn't yet killed any of my animals, therefore Virginia Tech is the answer.

:D

Aside from that biased bit of 'advice', I can only add that the wife is a people doctor and Nauga's advice is certainly spot on as it applies to med school. Do well at undergrad, and really only worry about getting any vet school prerequisites knocked out (I'd wager biology, chemistry and the like), but otherwise just pick a major that she can excel in.
 
Half Fast said:
BTW, around here there are lots of puppy & kitten vets, but very few vets who do large animal practice. The vet we use for our horses drives over 30 miles to get to our place. Depending upon locale, that might be a niche worth considering.

Large animal practice usually is conducted on farm sites, as it isn't practical to transport a herd of cattle or a crippled horse to a vet's office. These folks work out of a pickup truck and spend half their time driving from appointment to appointment. Some have only a small home office for running the business, not for seeing animals. It's hard, demanding work and the animals can be dangerous just because of their size. Consequently, only a few vets take up the field, so it can be quite lucrative.
Click to expand...

She does ride horses occasionally. I think large-animal practice is where she's looking to wind up.

Here's picture of her feeding a fawn at the now-defunct Catskill Game Farm when she was a toddler.

feeding-deer.jpg


Granted, a fawn isn't exactly a fearsome beast, and they were pretty domesticated anyway. But it was still a lot bigger than she was; and something about her posture and expression suggests a certain ... something. Sensitivity, I suppose. Or connection.

I can kind of relate to it because I have the same sort of relationship with animals, including wildlife. It's why I don't hunt very often. They're not afraid of me. There's no sport in shooting an animal that doesn't have the good sense to run away. Except for red squirrels. I shoot those little commies every time I see them on the roof. Destructive little vermin, they are.

Rich
 
Cornell has a top notch veterinary program, so she might be able to do some early training there. Other than that, much as with pre-med it doesn't much matter where you go. You want to do well with a solid background in chemistry (organic and otherwise), biology, and math.

My nephew is actually at Yale Med right now.
 
Fearless Tower said:
While very important, large animal doesn’t typically pay as well pet vets, unfortunately. Something to consider.

If she is seriously interested in large animal, you might want to look at Colorado State or UC Davis.
Click to expand...


You may be right, but I'm not sure how it nets out.

Our large animal vet has much lower overhead than our kitten vet. Our horse doc works out of his truck, doesn't maintain any office or staff. The small animal vet has a large dedicated building, a receptionist, a billing/finance person, several vet assistants, people who clean pens and feed critters, a janitorial service, etc. She charges more than the large animal guy, but I bet she doesn't get to keep as much.

Agree about Colorado State. Know anything about Temple Grandin (animal science prof)?
 
Half Fast said:
You may be right, but I'm not sure how it nets out.

Our large animal vet has much lower overhead than our kitten vet. Our horse doc works out of his truck, doesn't maintain any office or staff. The small animal vet has a large dedicated building, a receptionist, a billing/finance person, several vet assistants, people who clean pens and feed critters, a janitorial service, etc. She charges more than the large animal guy, but I bet she doesn't get to keep as much.

Agree about Colorado State. Know anything about Temple Grandin (animal science prof)?
Click to expand...
Keep in mind that my experience with pre-vet was early 90's, so things may have changed, while it is true that large animal vets have lower overhead, people unfortunately tend to be a lot more willing to spend big money on their pets than horses and cattle.

I am familiar with Temple Grandin, but I don't think I ever met her. I think she started right around the time or shortly after I left the pre-vet/equine science program.
 
nauga said:
Everyone seems to be focusing on vet schools and where to go. I'll put it a little different. Paraphrasing what well-known vet school said to an incoming class about 4 years ago: "What you study undergrad isn't as important as how well you do. We'd take a French major with an excellent academic record over a 'pre-vet' major with a mediocre record." Pick a school with some name recognition and a major in which she can excel, and go from there. Undergrad at the same school is not necessary, although knowing the faculty (and the faculty knowing you) before you apply can help.

Nauga,
peripherally
Click to expand...
There is another aspect of this worth considering: She may think she wants to be a Vet, but that can totally change when she gets to college.

That was me. Straight A's in high school. Excelled in math and science in high school. Loved animals and wanted a career working with horses. I knew several vets and thought I was determined to be one.

Then I got to college and found that while I still loved animals and enjoyed working with horses, the college level math and science was just not my thing and I found myself changing majors, so don't pick the school just because of the pre-vet program. Consider all options.
 
Fearless Tower said:
I am familiar with Temple Grandin, but I don't think I ever met her. I think she started right around the time or shortly after I left the pre-vet/equine science program.
Click to expand...

There was a bio-pic made about her some years ago. Cool story. Not too many autistic people earn PhDs and become university professors.
 
Fearless Tower said:
Then I got to college and found that while I still loved animals and enjoyed working with horses, the college level math and science was just not my thing and I found myself changing majors, ... Consider all options.
Click to expand...

I used to scuba dive with an MD some years ago. He told me he started out in engineering but couldn't handle the math and physics, so he switched to pre-med. Needless to say, I never went to him for treatment.... :)
 
Bell206 said:
Was forwarded this by old vet client. The 1st is a list. The 2nd requires membership but may provide path to other answers.
https://www.usnews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-health-schools/veterinarian-rankings
https://www.avma.org/About/SAVMA/Pages/default.aspx
Click to expand...


Strike the University (sic) of Georgia from that list unless you're going to specialize in brain-damaged bulldogs.

(In case anyone is unaware, this is Hate Week. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clean,_Old-Fashioned_Hate )

upload_2018-11-21_16-31-40.png
 
Last edited:
Last edited:
JOhnH said:
Cornell is probably the best vet school in the country. After that, they are all pretty good.

But just be aware that getting into vet school is tougher than getting into medical school (because there are so few vet schools). Also, Veterinarians don't make much money until a few years AFTER they open their own practice. The money isn't bad, but it doesn't compare to doctors, or even plumbers.

If she got here undergraduate degree at Cornell, that would give her an advantage to get into the Cornell vet school. If she is serious, this is what I would suggest. Also, it will be a huge help to her if she can get a job in a vet clinic to prove that she has the aptitude. Merely "loving animals" is not nearly enough. Every little girl thinks they want to be a vet because they love animals, until they have to wade through all that poop, pea and vomit for a few months.
Click to expand...
And have to give a cow an enema. According to my vet.
 
Rich, if large animals are where she wants to be, I would highly recommend she check out her 4H/FFA chapter and her local extension agent. I can’t speak for your neck of the woods, but in ours, that is the network you want to be unless it’s zoo animals.
 
SkyDog58 said:
One thing to be cognizant of is that vets have one of the highest suicide rates among all occupations. I guess it can take an emotional toll.
Click to expand...
I have always known it (veterinarian suicide rate) was high. And I have seen first hand some very good reasons.
Veterinary medicine is expensive. The costs to the vet are the same (except for insurance) as for human doctors, but relatively speaking, they give away their services. So a vet pours her heart out trying to save an animal, and when the client get's the bill, they say the inevitable thing vets hate to hear "you are only in it for the money". Or they do everything humanly possible to save the animal, even though the owner doesn't want to pay for diagnostics, then the client says "you killed my beloved pet". Human clients are the reason vet's commit suicide. They go into the profession because they love animals, but no animal has ever come into a vet hospital with a credit card and said "do whatever it takes". There is always a human along ready to argue about every dime.

And then there is "Doctor Google". My wife had a t-shirt that said "Please don't confuse google with my medical degree". She never let clients see it, but other vet's and human doctors loved it.

As for large animal vets, it is a shame they make so little, EXCEPT for the few equine vets that get to work in the winner's circle of horse racing. Otherwise, they make crap for working twice as hard as my wife and I ever had to.

Nah, I don't have any strong opinions on this. At least none that weren't gleaned from 25 years of owning a veterinary practice.

If you don't go into vet practice planning to own a clinic, then plan to complain about the money once you realize that loving animals isn't enough. It would be great for someone that only wants to work part time, because that is the way the business model is going with all the women vets (they far outnumber new men vets). After a few years of working (or less) most of them take off to have a baby and then come back to work part time. But part time veterinary medicine will never pay off the student loans. The reason we were successful is that I kept a technology job and paid for my wife's vet school as she went. Then during her first few years as an associate, we saved every dollar she earned to put towards starting our own practice. Even then, she didn't take a salary for the first two years. I continued to pay all of our expenses, AND much of the business expense out of my salary. It was only after a few years I was able to quit my job to run her practice full time. THEN and only then did we start making enough money to live well and retire well.

[/ramble]
 
RJM62 said:
I know two doctors (one MD and one DO) who admit that they became "people doctors" because they couldn't get into veterinary school. I suspect there are a lot more who won't admit it
Click to expand...

One of my friends went to med school. Another went to vet school. Both agreed vet school was more difficult. I thought that was interesting.
 
I am not a vet, so definitely not qualified to answer a question addressed to vets by the OP, but ... as someone who has managed colleges as dean and provost, including schools with prevet and animal science programs, I'll add the following to the conversation:

1 - as already mentioned, being a vet is not a [financially] rewarding career. A vet specializing in pets will most likely be an employee at a VCA branch or another privately owned practice. Same with vets specializing in farm animals: most are employed by food/agro-businesses. The romantic notion of independent vets with their own practices is just that: romantic. And even setting up a competitive practice is very expensive, especially in an urban environment. VCA starting salary, mid $70K.

2 - A month ago NPR had a great piece about the moral stress vets experience.

3 - Vet school is at least 4 years ago. What matters now is a good, solid education, focusing on liberal arts, problem-solving skills, and quantitative and digital literacy. Yale isn't a bad place for any of that.

4 - Tomorrow's turkey should not be so underdone as to be possible for a first-year vet student to resuscitate it.
 
Last edited:
Half Fast said:
I used to scuba dive with an MD some years ago. He told me he started out in engineering but couldn't handle the math and physics, so he switched to pre-med. Needless to say, I never went to him for treatment.... :)
Click to expand...

That wouldn’t bother me. People are strong in different things, and I can’t imagine an MD needing a lot of math and physics. One of my degrees is in physics, so my math/physics ability is substantially better than my fiancée’s, who is a surgical resident. But there’s absolutely no effing way I would be as successful as her had I decided to pursue medicine. Probably wouldn’t have made it through at all!

Different strokes...
 
Last edited:
About money ... I know several veterinarians (including two that own their hospitals) here in the great Midwest. In a busy practice, a motivated vet can hit six figures easily, as an employee.
 
JOhnH said:
I have always known it (veterinarian suicide rate) was high. And I have seen first hand some very good reasons.
Veterinary medicine is expensive. The costs to the vet are the same (except for insurance) as for human doctors, but relatively speaking, they give away their services. So a vet pours her heart out trying to save an animal, and when the client get's the bill, they say the inevitable thing vets hate to hear "you are only in it for the money". Or they do everything humanly possible to save the animal, even though the owner doesn't want to pay for diagnostics, then the client says "you killed my beloved pet". Human clients are the reason vet's commit suicide. They go into the profession because they love animals, but no animal has ever come into a vet hospital with a credit card and said "do whatever it takes". There is always a human along ready to argue about every dime.

And then there is "Doctor Google". My wife had a t-shirt that said "Please don't confuse google with my medical degree". She never let clients see it, but other vet's and human doctors loved it.

As for large animal vets, it is a shame they make so little, EXCEPT for the few equine vets that get to work in the winner's circle of horse racing. Otherwise, they make crap for working twice as hard as my wife and I ever had to.

Nah, I don't have any strong opinions on this. At least none that weren't gleaned from 25 years of owning a veterinary practice.

If you don't go into vet practice planning to own a clinic, then plan to complain about the money once you realize that loving animals isn't enough. It would be great for someone that only wants to work part time, because that is the way the business model is going with all the women vets (they far outnumber new men vets). After a few years of working (or less) most of them take off to have a baby and then come back to work part time. But part time veterinary medicine will never pay off the student loans. The reason we were successful is that I kept a technology job and paid for my wife's vet school as she went. Then during her first few years as an associate, we saved every dollar she earned to put towards starting our own practice. Even then, she didn't take a salary for the first two years. I continued to pay all of our expenses, AND much of the business expense out of my salary. It was only after a few years I was able to quit my job to run her practice full time. THEN and only then did we start making enough money to live well and retire well.

[/ramble]
Click to expand...

I don't doubt any of that and it confirms what I had previously heard from others in the know. Yeah, while pets (especially dogs :)) are wonderful, people do suck.
 
Plug for Texas A&M, since I went there (not vet school).
Plug for Purdue, since I live here.
 
455 Bravo Uniform said:
Plug for Texas A&M, since I went there (not vet school).
Plug for Purdue, since I live here.
Click to expand...

When I went to Purdue (aviation tech) in the late 1970s, I had a couple of friends in the vet program. I seem to recall that it was one of the top programs at the time though looking at current rankings it seems to have slipped some.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top