How many hours do I have?
- Thread starter Sport Pilot
- Start date
Mike Smith
En-Route
- Joined
- May 15, 2011
- Messages
- 2,626
- Location
- Prattville, Alabama
- Display Name
Display name:
Fresh Prince of PrattVegas
14.8???
Howard Wilson
Line Up and Wait
Each .1 is 6 minutes
rk911
Cleared for Takeoff
yes, .5 = 30 minutes. you have 14.8 hours logged. every decimal is 1/10 of an hour. logged time is expressed in hours.
Mike Smith
En-Route
- Joined
- May 15, 2011
- Messages
- 2,626
- Location
- Prattville, Alabama
- Display Name
Display name:
Fresh Prince of PrattVegas
Holy crap! I don’t math and I got it right in post 1. I think I’ll treat me to a beer.
Sport Pilot
Pre-takeoff checklist
Ok. Thank you guys for answering. I just finished my first page and my CFI told me to accumulate my hours and write it down.
It has never been explained to me prior to this. The only numbers I have been watching since I started flight school is my bank account.
It has never been explained to me prior to this. The only numbers I have been watching since I started flight school is my bank account.
Old97
Pre-takeoff checklist
Half Fast
Touchdown! Greaser!
Just add the numbers. Use a calculator if you haven’t learned addition in school yet.
(You may find the written exam to be a bit challenging....)
BTW, how did you manage to log 0.2 hours?
(You may find the written exam to be a bit challenging....)
BTW, how did you manage to log 0.2 hours?
EdFred
Taxi to Parking
just a guess but he probably flew for around 12 minutes. When I take my airplane from my home base to the local class Charlie I log .2
Half Fast
Touchdown! Greaser!
Hard for me to warm the engine, set the radios, taxi, and run up in less than 7 or 8 minutes. Heck, takeoff plus a lap around the pattern plus a landing will take about 8 minutes all by itself.
Maybe common sense really isn’t so common...
Anyhow, I’m thinking the confusion may be coming from the way the numbers are written in the logbook? For example 1|2 is 1.2 not 12— the line in the middle of the two numbers is theoretically a decimal. Maybe that helps?
Anyhow, I’m thinking the confusion may be coming from the way the numbers are written in the logbook? For example 1|2 is 1.2 not 12— the line in the middle of the two numbers is theoretically a decimal. Maybe that helps?
denverpilot
Tied Down
Taxiing out with the INTENT to fly and failing a runup and taxiing back... would be logged wouldn’t it...? The aircraft moved under its own power and was going to go flying, and then didn’t...
(Ducking and running away after throwing the hand grenade...)
(Ducking and running away after throwing the hand grenade...)
EdFred
Taxi to Parking
I only go by my flight time when I log time and that's more or less at rotation speed because my flight timer doesn't start till I go over 2000 RPM not when I start my engine.
I personally don't consider taxiing movement for the purpose of flight. I consider the takeoff roll movement for the purpose of flight because if I wanted to be an a-hole about it I could taxi let the plane run at idle for 12 hours taxi to the runway take a trip around the pattern and log 12 hours of flight time.
8 minute pattern?!?!? Dirigible?
denverpilot
Tied Down
Perhaps he only was sole operator of the controls for 0.2 and the CFI flew the rest of the flight as demo?
(Having fun thinking of hand grenades to throw that meet the logging regs on a 0.2 log entry... because logging threads here aren’t a dime a dozen or anything...)
(Having fun thinking of hand grenades to throw that meet the logging regs on a 0.2 log entry... because logging threads here aren’t a dime a dozen or anything...)
Let’s not turn this into another ‘can I log it’ thread...please!Taxiing out with the INTENT to fly and failing a runup and taxiing back... would be logged wouldn’t it...? The aircraft moved under its own power and was going to go flying, and then didn’t...
(Ducking and running away after throwing the hand grenade...)
As soon as the Hobbs comes to life, I begin logging, whether or not the aircraft has actually moved under its own power or not.
EdFred
Taxi to Parking
Let’s not turn this into another ‘can I log it’ thread...please!
As soon as the Hobbs comes to life, I begin logging, whether or not the aircraft has actually moved under its own power or not.
Well that's one way to build time quicker. I'd probably have another five to 10% more time if I did that
Half Fast
Touchdown! Greaser!
I log PIC time. If the prop is turning, the time gets logged.
Flying an LSA. A few weeks ago I went up, did 2 T&Gs than a full stopand taxied back to the hangar. Tach time was 0.5. Probably 6 or 7 minutes a lap plus taxi time.
I look at it this way. After I pull the airplane out of the hangar, crank the engine and wait for it to warm up...the wheels may not have actually moved but I’m still under authority of the aircraft with the intent to go fly.
Ravioli
Ejection Handle Pulled
- Joined
- Dec 1, 2014
- Messages
- 8,022
- Location
- Somewhere else
- Display Name
Display name:
Unwanted Guest - Perma-ban Pending
^^^ he said hobbs. must be a renter
EdFred
Taxi to Parking
Yeah we log things different I don't agree with "anytime the prop is turning" that it should be logged as flight time. I also don't agree with the FAA definition of movement with intent to fly. If I taxi to the gas pumps and then get back in the plane do I log the time to the gas pumps or if I start to taxi to fly but then don't fly do I log .2 with 0 takeoffs and zero landings? It's just cleaner to log flight time as flight time and not taxi time as flight time. Time could easily be inflated and inaccurate like I said my plane will run for over 24 hours at idle so I could just go out to the airport and let the plane move 5 feet and let it idle for 24 hours and log 24 hours of flight time. Extreme example but I hope you see what I'm getting at.
Don’t we all long by hobbs time? You’d be shortchanging yourself some flight time if you logged by tach.
But yes, I am unfortunately a lowly renter.
EdFred
Taxi to Parking
I don't consider taxiing to meet the definition of movement for purpose of flight I consider taxiing movement for the purpose of taxiing.
EdFred
Taxi to Parking
No hobbs meter in my plane. I log by actual hours and minutes on a timer that starts when I go over 2000RPM.
You’ve got to get the airplane to the runway by some method, and usually it’s by means of its own power for the intent to fly.
BrianNC
En-Route
FAA allows me to log Hobbs time, that includes taxiing, I log it. Why would anybody shortchange themselves when it's allowed? Taxiing is a part of the 'flight' and a skill in itself. I think 'flight' means the totality of the flight, not just when the wheels lift off the ground. Apparently that's the way the FAA sees it since they allow you to log it.
EdFred
Taxi to Parking
You’ve got to get the airplane to the runway by some method, and usually it’s by means of its own power for the intent to fly.
Taxiing is movement for the purpose of getting to the runway. Takeoff roll is movement for the purpose of flight.
Half Fast
Touchdown! Greaser!
I see your point, but as I said I log PIC time. That’s greater than flight time. Ground operation also requires a PIC.
What I was meaning was that if one just logs their flight time off of the tachometer, they would be shortchanging themselves flight time, since the tach is not running at the speed of a 60-minute hour. Hobbs or like @EdFred said, by watch or timer is a more accurate account of your flight time for logging purposes.
EdFred
Taxi to Parking
So you would be completely okay with my extreme example of logging a 24-hour trip around the pattern by me taxiing for 5ft setting the parking brake going to sleep, burning off 72 gallons of fuel at 3 gallons per hour then taking a single trip around the pattern and logging it as 24 hours?
If you aren't okay though with that are you okay with it being 20 hours or 12 hours or 5 hours? If 0.4 minutes extra is okay why not 24 hours extra ?
EdFred
Taxi to Parking
My mechanic doesn't have a pilot certificate and he often taxis my airplane from my hangar to the maintenance hangar or or from the maintenance hangar to my hangar. That does not require PIC.
Timbeck2
Final Approach
My eyeball seems to be drying out. How often am I supposed to blink?
BrianNC
En-Route
Your example is hyperbole. Not even close to what we're talking about and a ridiculous over the top argument. FAA allows Hobbs time which starts when the engine starts. As I said, taxiing is a part of the 'flight' and the FAA sees it that way too. Why try and reinvent the wheel? If how you log time is how you want to do it, then do it that way. Why criticize others for doing what is allowed, and has always been done that way? I fly by Hobbs, and I pay by Hobbs. And the FAA says it's fine. When you rented did you count all your Hobbs time? I'm sure you did. Some of us still fly planes with a Hobbs meter.
BrianNC
En-Route
Not only that, people convert it to Hobbs by multiplying by 1.2 or so.
EdFred
Taxi to Parking
It is an extreme example I admit that. But if the FAA is going to allow us any time and all the time that the engine is running why not just build hours that way? I can build hours at 20-25% of the cost I do now, if it's okay to log any and all time that the engine is running as flight time as long as I make one takeoff and landing. ( I don't rent and my maintenance done is on tach hours).
You and I both know it's over the top as an example but where is the cut off of reasonable versus ridiculous? 1 Hour 2 hours 3 hours 15 minutes a half hour?
I think only one of the planes I rented had hobbs. The others we paid by tach and we logged our time with a stopwatch.
You know this might be one time I should write the chief counsel a letter.
Last edited:
denverpilot
Tied Down
LOL. Long long time ago our Hobbs meter broke in our airplane and we were all so used to having one we paid a couple hundred bucks to replace it.
Later we realized that was dumb.
From the guy who made the best flowchart of non-CFI PIC logging ever, you should know the FAA doesn’t care if you agree with them.
I can’t depart from the ramp or the tower gets cranky. The helicopter kids can, though.
I do agree with you that taxiing to the self serve isn’t with intent to fly, and wouldn’t log that. That’s taxiing with intent to refuel.
The taxi from the self serve to the runway? Logged.
It’s extreme and in extreme cases usually FAA applies the “if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck”... this is “taxi with intent to sleep”.
Here’s another take on it. An airline crew can time out on duty sitting on the ground in the conga line going absolutely nowhere.
FAA does seem to be consistent on this. Taxiing to the runway can time you out... if it couldn’t, I’d say they consider the taxi time not intending to fly, but they do...
Heh. Like I said, tossing logging hand grenades is fun.
Tarheelpilot
Final Approach
- Joined
- Dec 5, 2010
- Messages
- 7,397
- Location
- North Carolina once again.
- Display Name
Display name:
Tarheelpilot
There is nothing wrong with how you log. There is nothing wrong with logging Hobbs time. Both are acceptable and the way you do it is not morally superior nor any more accurate than using Hobbs time. It’s just how you do it.
denverpilot
Tied Down
Oh now we’re jumping back to that “good moral character” thing that FAA has certified that ATP holders all have?
Tarheelpilot
Final Approach
- Joined
- Dec 5, 2010
- Messages
- 7,397
- Location
- North Carolina once again.
- Display Name
Display name:
Tarheelpilot
Meh I guess.Oh now we’re jumping back to that “good moral character” thing that FAA has certified that ATP holders all have?