Talk Me Out of Speed

GaryP1007

GaryP1007

Pre-takeoff checklist
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Feb 21, 2018
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GaryP1007
OK, I need a therapy session. I have been flying a Dakota for about 10 years now. Nice plane, well maintained and it has always been good to me.

I seem to always want more speed. I flight plan at 137 kts in the Dakota. I love the idea of 160+ in a Mooney but I am not sure that ditching the Dakota for a Mooney makes sense. Obviously useful load decreases considerably etc. etc. etc.

Can you help me convince myself that another 20-25 kts won't matter?
 
Need more information. What's your mission profile?
 
How far is your average mission? If its less than about 300nm, the speed difference just doesn't matter much.

200 nm at 137 kts = 1 hr and 25 mins
200 nm at 160 kts= 1 hr and 15 mins

300 nm at 137 kts = 2hrs and 10 mins
300 nm at 160 kts = 1hr and 52 mins

So, how much is your time worth?
 
Cricket1 said:
How far is your average mission? If its less than about 300nm, the speed difference just doesn't matter much.

200 nm at 137 kts = 1 hr and 25 mins
200 nm at 160 kts= 1 hr and 15 mins

300 nm at 137 kts = 2hrs and 10 mins
300 nm at 160 kts = 1hr and 52 mins

So, how much is your time worth?
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Add in ~30 minutes to each number for startup, taxi, run-up, takeoff, departure procedure, climb, pattern entry, landing, more taxi and shutdown and the percentage difference gets even smaller.
 
Speed kills. Trust your local state trooper.

Oh, you mean in an airplane. NVM.
 
The Dakota is a great all around aircraft,but if you must have the extra speed,then it makes sense to go with the Mooney.
 
Plan a trip 600nm with 4 people and their stuff. The Dakota will win every time

A Mooney that carries an occasional load has to be filled up appropriately before each flight. A Dakota you can fill her up every 800 miles and never have to worry about “too much” fuel weight. What is that time worth. Gotta count that static time

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Im considering this same upgrade in the future, but from a Warrior instead of a Dakota. Bigger improvement, easier sell. I think if I had a nice Dakota, I'd keep it.
 
Checkout_my_Six said:
It's not the speed that will spoil ya.....it's the extra power to climb at +1,000 fpm.

it does suck doing +200 mph at 15,000 ft in the Bo.....;)
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Sucking on O2 up there high is no fun.
 
GaryP1007 said:
OK, I need a therapy session. I have been flying a Dakota for about 10 years now. Nice plane, well maintained and it has always been good to me.

I seem to always want more speed. I flight plan at 137 kts in the Dakota. I love the idea of 160+ in a Mooney but I am not sure that ditching the Dakota for a Mooney makes sense. Obviously useful load decreases considerably etc. etc. etc.

Can you help me convince myself that another 20-25 kts won't matter?
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Only thing I can think of that would stop me from getting a faster airplane (load, space and comfort aside) is my piggy bank
 
It's nice to have a little extra speed on tap, even for local missions. If I'm going on a half-hour breakfast run, I'll usually go about 135 ktas. But if I see another aircraft on the display, in back of me at roughly the same altitude and direction, I might gas it a little for more separation. Usually in this situation I'm flying over the top of Ontario or March Class Charlie airspace by 500 ft, and I don't really want to climb or descend too much.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Need more information. What's your mission profile?
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I live in the Boston area. Outside of New England I fly to Myrtle Beach and Raleigh 3-4 times per year. Mid-Atlantic states 2-3 times per year. Also to Nashville 1-2 times per year. If I had a speedier/more efficient plane I travel to Chicago 1x/month but haven't used the Dakota for that yet.
 
If considering a Mooney, it’s not just fast, but efficient as well. You save time and fuel (and $). How much weight do you need to carry?
 
GaryP1007 said:
I live in the Boston area. Outside of New England I fly to Myrtle Beach and Raleigh 3-4 times per year. Mid-Atlantic states 2-3 times per year. Also to Nashville 1-2 times per year. If I had a speedier/more efficient plane I travel to Chicago 1x/month but haven't used the Dakota for that yet.
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Then I think you're getting to the point where a faster plane would make sense. The trips are long enough where you'll notice the speed increase provided that the useful load constraints aren't an issue.

The Mooney is a good option, I love Mooneys. A good J might do 160, but it seems like 155 is a more typical speed. I think you should aim for 170 KTAS or better in your plane, though, not 160, to see more of a difference. So to that end a Bonanza (520 or 550 powered), 550-powered Mooney, and of course the 310 or Baron are options if you want to go twin.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Then I think you're getting to the point where a faster plane would make sense. The trips are long enough where you'll notice the speed increase provided that the useful load constraints aren't an issue.

The Mooney is a good option, I love Mooneys. A good J might do 160, but it seems like 155 is a more typical speed. I think you should aim for 170 KTAS or better in your plane, though, not 160, to see more of a difference. So to that end a Bonanza (520 or 550 powered), 550-powered Mooney, and of course the 310 or Baron are options if you want to go twin.
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Thanks for your input. Appreciate the sanity check.
 
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Clark1961 said:
Speed kills. Trust your local state trooper.

Oh, you mean in an airplane. NVM.
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Speed produces revenue and an opportunity to violate constitutionally protected rights. Never trust the police.

That being said, an extra 20kts in the air can do wonders to negate headwinds.

The rule of thumb is 180kts = cross county airplane.
 
Where speed really matters is if the speed gets you somewhere in one day, and you wouldnt get there in one day without it. For me, one day is 7 hours, 3 1/2 in morning and 3 1/2 in afternoon with a 1 hour stop for lunch and fuel. Most folks can handle that much flying comfortably in one day. If you get a headwind, you have to do more, and its not too hard to do an extra hour for headwinds.

137 - 20(normal headwind) = 117.
117 x 7 = 819 miles a range in a "day".

So do you need the extra speed because you cant make it in one day?
 
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Ted DuPuis said:
Then I think you're getting to the point where a faster plane would make sense. The trips are long enough where you'll notice the speed increase provided that the useful load constraints aren't an issue.

The Mooney is a good option, I love Mooneys. A good J might do 160, but it seems like 155 is a more typical speed. I think you should aim for 170 KTAS or better in your plane, though, not 160, to see more of a difference. So to that end a Bonanza (520 or 550 powered), 550-powered Mooney, and of course the 310 or Baron are options if you want to go twin.
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I agree with all Ted says, and I would add another point. With a faster airplane you will be more likely to take additional trips that perhaps you don't even consider making now. It would not only allow you to take advantage of existing opportunities, but it could also open up new ones.
 
Speed is options. More places to go in the same time. Less time for the same places. Easier/less time to deviate around weather.

If you're really doing 137 knots, moving to 155 isn't much improvement. It helps, but on the longer flights. Get up to 170 or more and you'll notice it. I moved from an Arrow to a SR22 several years ago and it made trips noticeably nicer. Traveling then cost more, but it was much nicer. Because it was nicer we traveled that way even more.

How many people? How much stuff? The Dakota planes tend to have a lot more useful load than Mooneys. A faster Mooney/Cirrus/whatever will make a difference in going places. Something like a M20J will go faster and burn less fuel doing it than your Dakota, but won't carry as much. If it's just two people and light luggage, then the M20J is an improvement. If you have four people and lots of stuff, not so much as you may limit your range by not being able to carry as much fuel so you can carry people and stuff.

It's all compromises. Find the right compromise for your particular needs. But yes, speed is good. ;)
 
Ryanb said:
180kts is more than enough to cross the county with.
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It is, although keep in mind at ~2,000 nm coast to coast you're probably looking at a two day trip each way unless you're a real iron butt champ like yours truly. And frankly even I am getting tired of spending more than 10 hours in the saddle in a day. I'm also not too keen on crossing big rocks (Rockies) and majorly desolate space at night which makes it hard to do one-day trips westbound.

Basically if you actually want to go coast to coast in a day, there are very few piston aircraft that you'll be able to do so in happily. I'm really looking forward to the MU-2's speed because it can turn those 13 hour Hobbs days into around 9-10.
 
In my Mooney(M20J) out west typically I couldn't stay low enough to really get more than 150 very often. Terrain and MEAs usually meant I was doing 148 all day long at about 10GPH.
 
A good speed mod is extended range tanks, on a J it gives you 10 hours of flying time. A fuel stop costs you 30 minutes.
 
BigBadLou said:
Can't do it. If you feel the need, there's no talking a man out of it.
I should know, I feel the need often. Can't stop me. Need a fix pretty frequently. You might call me a junkie. ;)

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If I could get the Dakota to 145kts, then I would be closer to 150kts, which would make me feel like 160kts was no big deal, until I realized that some Mooneys can do 170+kts..............see, I needed therapy.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
That's what empty Gatorade bottles are for. Just make sure to store the refilled ones in a separate location from the new/opened ones. And never bring lemon-lime as a flavor.
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Thinking thats a mistake that would only make once.
 
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