A380 wagging its tail

ElPaso Pilot

ElPaso Pilot

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ElPaso Pilot
A380 landing with just a little bit of yaw oscillation.

The back seaters must have had a nice ride, there.

"An Emirates spokesman said: 'Emirates flight EK 55 on 5 October 2017 landed safely in Dusseldorf under strong crosswind conditions. At no point was the safety of the passengers and crew on board compromised.'"

 
This brought to mind the Airbus A300 that lost its tail fin and subsequently crashed on takeoff from JFK. The cause was (from memory) excessive rudder use.
 
That's what happens when the operators learn how to press buttons and pull levers instead of pedals and yokes.

Space monkeys were trained to see a light, hit a button. Hear a bell, pull a lever. Monkeys have been to Space and back, and apparently fly Airbuses.
 
Pilawt said:
Whaddya wanna bet the PF never flew a taildragger?

:rolleyes:
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Whaddya wanna bet that most private pilots here commenting on this are clueless to the operations of heavy transport jets, especially in high cross wind operations?

The pilots of the 380 are dealing with a lot of mass and lots of kinetic energy.
 
Doc Holliday said:
The pilots of the 380 are dealing with a lot of mass and lots of kinetic energy.
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They absolutely are.

And to the clueless, that looked like a little bit of pilot induced oscillation.
 
Doc Holliday said:
Whaddya wanna bet that most private pilots here commenting on this are clueless to the operations of heavy transport jets, especially in high cross wind operations?

The pilots of the 380 are dealing with a lot of mass and lots of kinetic energy.
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Sure but we can also tell the difference between a pilot over controlling with rudder vs one that does not as well.

 
Blame the top half of the rudder deciding to show up to work when ground contact was made. A rudder becoming more effective at a time like that would surprise us all.

Also, what you see and feel up front is a lot different from the passnegers in the back.
 
Velocity173 said:
Sure but we can also tell the difference between a pilot over controlling with rudder vs one that does not as well.

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Apparently you can't.

You're attempting to make a comparison between a small GA aircraft in a crosswind versus a heavy transport jet. Unless you have some actual experience in operating heavy transports your observation is without merit.
 
I was really intrigued as to the split rudder. Only the lower half was moving on short final but after touchdown the whole surface was moving. Is this an automatic thing, and amount of rudder input thing or what?
 
I thought all the heavy transport pilots us the Auto Land button..:rolleyes:
 
jsstevens said:
I was really intrigued as to the split rudder. Only the lower half was moving on short final but after touchdown the whole surface was moving. Is this an automatic thing, and amount of rudder input thing or what?
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Its an automated thing. The rudder on my airplane is split along the vertical, unlike the 380's horizontal separation. Only the half closest to the stabilizer works during flight (a speed limitation...) to avoid overstressing.

Id assume that only the lower half on the 380 works in flight to avoid overstressing the bolts that hold the vertical stab in place. Dunno. Ask an engineer for that one.
 
Doc Holliday said:
Apparently you can't.

You're attempting to make a comparison between a small GA aircraft in a crosswind versus a heavy transport jet. Unless you have some actual experience in operating heavy transports your observation is without merit.
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??? I just posted a vid that shows a 380 pilot applying rudder with the appropriate deflection in a similar crosswind. It's quite obvious in the OP's vid that the pilot kept rudder in way too long and resulted in a pilot induced problem. Doesn't take a pilot with heavy experience to see the difference between the two.
 
jsstevens said:
I was really intrigued as to the split rudder. Only the lower half was moving on short final but after touchdown the whole surface was moving. Is this an automatic thing, and amount of rudder input thing or what?
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Dont know 380 specifics but split flight controls are usually an airspeed thing, many outboard ailerons lock out with flap up position, for normal high speed flight.
 
Velocity173 said:
??? I just posted a vid that shows a 380 pilot applying rudder with the appropriate deflection in a similar crosswind. It's quite obvious in the OP's vid that the pilot kept rudder in way too long and resulted in a pilot induced problem. Doesn't take a pilot with heavy experience to see the difference between the two.
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The 380 uses a multitude of systems. One system that comes into play on touchdown is the Phased Lift Dumping which happens during an uneven landing. You see it in action on this video. Also the 380 has an upper and lower rudder, the lower is primary. Once the jet has weight on wheels (WOW) the upper rudder comes in to add more directional control.

Couple the PLD system with the operation of the upper rudder becoming more active, and throw in a gusty crosswind and you see the results. Also had in the mass of the aircraft and the amount of kinetic energy in play. Obviously inputs with this amount of energy can possibly lag.

But I'll defer to your obvious superior judgement and experience with regards to operating heavy transport jets.
 
Doc Holliday said:
The 380 uses a multitude of systems. One system that comes into play on touchdown is the Phased Lift Dumping which happens during an uneven landing. You see it in action on this video. Also the 380 has an upper and lower rudder, the lower is primary. Once the jet has weight on wheels (WOW) the upper rudder comes in to add more directional control.

Couple the PLD system with the operation of the upper rudder becoming more active, and throw in a gusty crosswind and you see the results. Also had in the mass of the aircraft and the amount of kinetic energy in play. Obviously inputs with this amount of energy can possibly lag.

But I'll defer to your obvious superior judgement and experience with regards to operating heavy transport jets.
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Well R&W, great explanation to create static but it's still obviously over controlling any way you look at it. Unless you can tell me that rudder deflection is necessary after the nose has already swung across centerline, I'm not not buying that this is a good X-wind control on the pilot.

And another with a similar X-wind:

 
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Doc Holliday said:
But I'll defer to your obvious superior judgement and experience with regards to operating heavy transport jets.
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So you're saying that the OP's video shows an acceptable crosswind landing in the 380? Or are you saying that only heavy transport drivers are allowed to point out mistakes?
 
Couldn't tell for sure, but up close the front tire looked wet, so maybe the runway was wet.
That would induce more sliding I would think....especially with that much kinetic energy.
Not saying there wasn't over or under correction, but he landed it without crashing, so I guess it wasn't too much of anything.

I bet there were a few fluids of various nature in motion for both for crew and passengers.

Front tire is directly under the pilot(s)... maybe that's why it was wet
 
kayoh190 said:
So you're saying that the OP's video shows an acceptable crosswind landing in the 380? Or are you saying that only heavy transport drivers are allowed to point out mistakes?
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I didn't comment on the acceptability of the landing or technique. My comments are in order to understand all of the dynamics in play in that situation. We have PP's here lambasting the video as if the PF on the 380 somehow doesn't know what he's doing. As you are aware in operating transport jets lots of dynamics come into play such as mass and inertia, wind gust and interplay of the aircraft systems such as the PLD and also the upper rudder coming into play as the a/c touches down.

For your average GA SE pilot here I understand they have a hard time comprehending what is going on in a situation such as that video, but I find it silly that they feel they can arm chair quarterback the PF.
 
It's a 'bus. Can't we all just get along and blame it on the computer? :)
 
Doc Holliday said:
I didn't comment on the acceptability of the landing or technique. My comments are in order to understand all of the dynamics in play in that situation. We have PP's here lambasting the video as if the PF on the 380 somehow doesn't know what he's doing. As you are aware in operating transport jets lots of dynamics come into play such as mass and inertia, wind gust and interplay of the aircraft systems such as the PLD and also the upper rudder coming into play as the a/c touches down.

For your average GA SE pilot here I understand they have a hard time comprehending what is going on in a situation such as that video, but I find it silly that they feel they can arm chair quarterback the PF.
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Um, I thought I was certain you have participated in an internet discussion forum prior to this post, yes??

duty_calls.png
 
It could have been gusts timed just right and not pilot induced. That's what I always tell my passengers.
 
Salty said:
It could have been gusts timed just right and not pilot induced. That's what I always tell my passengers.
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I’ve had some of those well timed gusts! ;)

I swear I wasn’t slow and we didn’t just drop the last four feet to the runway! Really! It was the gust! :)
 
Always interesting to watch the big guys landing in gusty crosswinds. I'm certain the pax think the plane is stable under all conditions nut they have no idea how those gusts affect even the largest of airliners. I once watched a 727 get weather-vaned while sitting on the ramp. It turned almost 180 degrees. Good thing there were no other planes close by.
 
Norman said:
Always interesting to watch the big guys landing in gusty crosswinds. I'm certain the pax think the plane is stable under all conditions nut they have no idea how those gusts affect even the largest of airliners. I once watched a 727 get weather-vaned while sitting on the ramp. It turned almost 180 degrees. Good thing there were no other planes close by.
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Must have been loaded tail heavy for better cruise efficiency.
 
Obviously most of us have no time flying the a380.. but the rudder inputs did stay in way too long and there seemed to be some PIO

Plus the camera angle probably doesn't help

Not sure why the defensive about the kinetic energy of the plane, no one's saying he (or she) is a bad pilot.. but the technique looked suspect

Don't have to be a doctor to know that if you see someone choking they probably need help
 
Tantalum said:
Don't have to be a doctor to know that if you see someone choking they probably need help
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Problem is, like I said, you may have just seen the computer choking. Hahaha.

The Rudder Control Smoother version 0.2 pull request from GitHub will be uploaded to the airplane tonight, I hear. LOL.
 
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