Cherokee 140 LED NAV lights?

So much for a light bulb.... so how many A&P does it take to change a light bulb???... My IA "Told" me to change to the PSA bulbs to save power... and smiled as he signed off the log books.. Red Green, and White, along with the red flasher on top of the tail... with a new fairing that increased my speed 5 mph!... Sure love these old airplanes..
 
murphey said:
Those are "what" specifications, not "how to meet" the specifications. If something satisfies the specifications, obviously it's legal. Otherwise owner-fabricated parts that meet the specification and are fabricated using procedures and materials that meet AC 43.whatever, would not be allowed.
Click to expand...

i guess i dont understand what you mean by " there is no statement in the fars regarding light bulbs". those fars spell out what specs a light bulb has to meet to be used as a position light. the company that designed the light showed compliance with those fars with the bulb specified. to replace the bulb with a different bulb somebody must show compliance with those fars. that was the whole point of this, does the manufacture of the led bulbs have test results to show that they do meet the requirements. to me it appears that he supplies enough documentation to put the burden on him if the feds question them. in the case of position lights you cannot just put any bulb you want in, it MUST meet the specs and have documentation to prove it does. to prove that a bulb meets those specs takes some very elaborate test equipment.

bob
 
Those bulbs seem to me like they'll be no problem at all until you garner someone's attention for doing something incredibly dumb or dangerous. Or you find a way to significantly threaten some bureaucracy's income stream.

Like a lot of laws these days. Common sense tossed for legalities.

They'll dig and go after every piece of paper ever in your realm of responsibility if you ever cause them a problem.

Other than that, you'll fly with the new bulbs for decades and nobody will have any effs to give about it, even if they see them.

Not trying to say normalization of deviance or willful refusal to comply is a good thing -- but the chances there's anyone out there hell bent on finding LED bulbs with questionable paperwork on non-commercial aircraft, who'd be snooping and asking questions about them, are approaching zero.

I'm pretty sure the piece of crap bulbs on my Cessna wouldn't pass any "spectral analysis" for their proper color shining through 40 year old plastics that aren't the same opacity or color they were the day they left the Cessna factory, either.

And I sure as hell don't need any special test equipment to tell me that...
 
unsafervguy said:
i guess i dont understand what you mean by " there is no statement in the fars regarding light bulbs". those fars spell out what specs a light bulb has to meet to be used as a position light. the company that designed the light showed compliance with those fars with the bulb specified. to replace the bulb with a different bulb somebody must show compliance with those fars. that was the whole point of this, does the manufacture of the led bulbs have test results to show that they do meet the requirements. to me it appears that he supplies enough documentation to put the burden on him if the feds question them. in the case of position lights you cannot just put any bulb you want in, it MUST meet the specs and have documentation to prove it does. to prove that a bulb meets those specs takes some very elaborate test equipment.

bob
Click to expand...
To be more specific. As per the Piper Cherokee Parts Catalog, part 753582, 2009 pub date, there is no specific part number for a landing light. Nor for position lights. Nor for tail beacon. There's a specific part number for the retainer ring for the landing light, tho. (Ref Figure 56).

But there is a specific part number for the air filter. But not for the oil filter.

There is no specific part number for the little lights that go behind the panel overlay, either. But there's a part number for the overlay, and the dimmer switch for the panel lights. I find it difficult to believe that someone at Piper, or even at GE, ran any type of test to verify the 99 cent GE53 bulbs would satify the FAR specs. The only spec I can find, other than physical dimension, 12-14.4v and 13 lumen. Looking at various suppliers, the listed wattage is either 0.12w, 1.7w or 2.0 w. Very odd. By the way, as a trivia note, "53" is the ANSI identifier, not the name GE gave it.
 
murphey said:
To be more specific. As per the Piper Cherokee Parts Catalog, part 753582, 2009 pub date, there is no specific part number for a landing light. Nor for position lights. Nor for tail beacon. There's a specific part number for the retainer ring for the landing light, tho. (Ref Figure 56).

But there is a specific part number for the air filter. But not for the oil filter.

There is no specific part number for the little lights that go behind the panel overlay, either. But there's a part number for the overlay, and the dimmer switch for the panel lights. I find it difficult to believe that someone at Piper, or even at GE, ran any type of test to verify the 99 cent GE53 bulbs would satify the FAR specs. The only spec I can find, other than physical dimension, 12-14.4v and 13 lumen. Looking at various suppliers, the listed wattage is either 0.12w, 1.7w or 2.0 w. Very odd. By the way, as a trivia note, "53" is the ANSI identifier, not the name GE gave it.
Click to expand...

you are missing the point, and a few manuals. the panel lights and the position lights are two totally different things. the position lights are different because they must meet specific FARS, the FAR numbers I have stated. yes, there is no part number in the piper manual. but there is in the documentation for the company that manufactured and certified the light assembly. IE grimes, whelen or whoever. here is the document for the whelen 600 series http://www.whelen.com/install/136/13609.pdf you will find the approved part number there. And they have done a lot of expensive testing, i have discussed those tests with whelen engineers with respect to LED certification. as for the panel lights, GE DID do a lot of testing to prove to to ANSI that their bulb met the ANSI standards to be called an ANSI 53. as for the oil filter, if you look in lycomings documentation you WILL find specifications as to which oil filter is approved.

bob
 
Last edited:
murphey said:
To be more specific. As per the Piper Cherokee Parts Catalog, part 753582, 2009 pub date, there is no specific part number for a landing light. Nor for position lights. Nor for tail beacon. There's a specific part number for the retainer ring for the landing light, tho. (Ref Figure 56).

But there is a specific part number for the air filter. But not for the oil filter.

There is no specific part number for the little lights that go behind the panel overlay, either. But there's a part number for the overlay, and the dimmer switch for the panel lights. I find it difficult to believe that someone at Piper, or even at GE, ran any type of test to verify the 99 cent GE53 bulbs would satify the FAR specs. The only spec I can find, other than physical dimension, 12-14.4v and 13 lumen. Looking at various suppliers, the listed wattage is either 0.12w, 1.7w or 2.0 w. Very odd. By the way, as a trivia note, "53" is the ANSI identifier, not the name GE gave it.
Click to expand...

Part of the electrical system drawings. Wingtips pn 1512, tail 1073, landing 4509, beacon A7079. Instrument panel drawings - G53.
 
JAWS said:
Part of the electrical system drawings. Wingtips pn 1512, tail 1073, landing 4509, beacon A7079. Instrument panel drawings - G53.
Click to expand...
Got a figure ref? I couldn't find it.
 
I just installed the PSA 14v nav light bulbs. Part nos. 11-12241 and 11-12242. I did not get the clear lenses yet, but even with the old tinted lenses they are very bright. Couldn't be easier to install. For those who haven't done a nav light bulb change, the bulbs come out by rotating 1/4 turn counterclockwise and pulling out gently. I have ordered the clear lenses and expect even more brightness.
 

Attachments

  • IMG_3549.JPG
    IMG_3549.JPG
    203.2 KB · Views: 39
TylerSC said:
I just installed the PSA 14v nav light bulbs. Part nos. 11-12241 and 11-12242. I did not get the clear lenses yet, but even with the old tinted lenses they are very bright. Couldn't be easier to install. For those who haven't done a nav light bulb change, the bulbs come out by rotating 1/4 turn counterclockwise and pulling out gently. I have ordered the clear lenses and expect even more brightness.
Click to expand...

Nice! Yea I love mine and the clear lens is quite nice. Funny you mention the 1/4 turn. When I was trying to take out the original bulb I was wondering why it was so damn hard to get out haha. I eventually figured it out.
 
CC268 said:
Nice! Yea I love mine and the clear lens is quite nice. Funny you mention the 1/4 turn. When I was trying to take out the original bulb I was wondering why it was so damn hard to get out haha. I eventually figured it out.
Click to expand...

Yes, it took me a while. The first one I tried was a little corroded or dirty and took some wiggling.
 
Can these be installed on scenarios where I have nav/strobe together?

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
 
It's all about the watts, no? More juice left for other equipment and devices?
 
455 Bravo Uniform said:
It's all about the watts, no? More juice left for other equipment and devices?
Click to expand...

They are significantly brighter, and should last a lot longer than the incandescents.

Update - I installed the clear lenses found here and the gaskets (P/N 11-14559). Took about thirty seconds each side. Looks brighter.
 
If someone pulls your lens off to check that you have approved nav bulbs, only way that happens is if you pizzed a fed off to the extent that one way or another he's going to bust you anyways.
 
Installed mine this past weekend - now if the weather will just clear up enough to go fly. Forgot to order the gaskets...next weekend's action before flying Young Eagles. I think I'll fly with all the lights on, just for grins.
 
TylerSC said:
Yes, it took me a while. The first one I tried was a little corroded or dirty and took some wiggling.
Click to expand...
A touch of lithium based grease (or wheel bearing grease if you must) on the base of the bulb before you install it will help in a few years when it needs to come out again. NOTE -- do NOT get the grease on the bulb(s) itself as it will generate a hot spot and that is never good.

Jim
 
You flash them red and blue when you're lined up behind other planes, right? How much were they all in?
 
ktup-flyer said:
You flash them red and blue when you're lined up behind other planes, right? How much were they all in?
Click to expand...

I think it was like $300ish by the time I got all three LEDs, new clear lenses and gaskets.
 
Addendum - I splurged on the Whelen Parmetheus Plus landing light because I've been flying a lot at night. Big, big, big difference. Worth every penny and then some. Fully lit up with LED red and green nav lights, beacon (older Whelen strobe), incandescent white tail nav light, and now the LED landing light, I'm drawing about ten amps less per the meter. I start seeing the numbers and markings probably 25-50 feet higher, and the whiter color light makes the numbers and runway markings really pop out.
 
The point is moot but I'd like to see a Parmetheus and an Alphabeam side by side comparison. I have an Alphabeam and it was the best $285 I've spent on my plane so far as far as usefulness goes.
 
I was flying at night on one of my training flights and was short final when in the 10' wide span of the stock incandescent landing light, I saw a javelina on the runway so I went around. As I did I noticed two more behind it that I didn't see at first. I ordered the Alphabeam the next day.
 
Glenn D said:
So much for a light bulb.... so how many A&P does it take to change a light bulb???... My IA "Told" me to change to the PSA bulbs to save power... and smiled as he signed off the log books.. Red Green, and White, along with the red flasher on top of the tail... with a new fairing that increased my speed 5 mph!... Sure love these old airplanes..
Click to expand...
 
Can you tell me which fairing you used? I’ve been searching for a tail beacon fairing. Thanks!
 
mtuomi said:
Once again you just post a worthless rant with zero content. At least I quoted my source - you never do, you just claim to know what you are talking about but never actually prove any of it.
Click to expand...
He does know what he's talking about.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top