Airport temporary closing for auto racing.

tecprotb

tecprotb

Pre-takeoff checklist
Joined
Feb 11, 2013
Messages
282
Location
Ft. Worth
Display Name
Display name:
Tim RV10
What's up with an airport hosting a auto race event?
First Caddo Mills (7F3) closed a Runway to host an event and now Sulphur Springs (KSLR) is closing their runway for a weekend to hoist an event.
When Caddo Mills did it they remained open only closing one of their runways. Sulphur Springs is a single Runway so it appears they will have to close the airport for the weekend.
The other thing I don't understand is this race is from a dead stop so I'm sure there will be a lot of burnout marks on the runway.
Why not take it to the track? Ennis is losing money and they are set up to handle the race.
I love racing but I don't get it?
It appears this is becoming more popular, I talked to the FBO in Sulphur Springs after the first event and he said they were doing it again this year. Thats other's opinion?

http://www.wannagofast.com/sulphursprings.php
 
Its ok so long as they let me land on the auto track straightway...
 
They do this one here http://pikespeakairstripattack.com/

The first year we went as a spectator and while it was pretty damn cool seeing all the kinds of cars I'll never make enough money to own it wasn't super exciting to watch the races. They put it on as part of week leading up to the Pikes Peak Int'l Hillclimb.
 
FTG closed a runway and a portion of the ramp for auto-racing stuff. Had some details poorly planned. Had cars driving on the active portion of the ramp and past the self-serve fuel pumps to access the closed-off portion of the ramp. Of course there appeared to be no briefing or safety training for the auto-race participants about how to behave around aircraft moving to the self-serve pumps. Definitely had to keep an eye out for the cars and people walking.
 
SPG closes for Grand Prix races,they use part of the taxi way and runway for the track.
 
They are paying $$$.... City ain't gonna turn down green backs so a few privileged pilots can chirp their tires.
 
Most of those "drive real fast in a straight line" airport 'races' cost 1-200 per car. Many of them fill up months in advance with 100+ entries.
Obviously the airport, or someone is getting a cut. How much 100LL woukd they normally sell to guys doing pattern work or hamburger runs in that same time frame? If we aren't careful municipalities will figure out they can make more $$$ with less hassle doing this and the runways will be closed more often.
 
Clark1961 said:
FTG closed a runway and a portion of the ramp for auto-racing stuff. Had some details poorly planned. Had cars driving on the active portion of the ramp and past the self-serve fuel pumps to access the closed-off portion of the ramp. Of course there appeared to be no briefing or safety training for the auto-race participants about how to behave around aircraft moving to the self-serve pumps. Definitely had to keep an eye out for the cars and people walking.
Click to expand...

When I saw the pedestrians around the fuel pump, I decided FTG didn't need my fuel money that weekend. Also got hassled for attempting to park in the public parking lot in front of the FBO. Parked there anyway. Up yours, Porsche club. You're on public property. Wrote a note to Dave (the mgr) that no amount of liability insurance would cover the stupid people running into my prop.

We've had EAA Young Eagles scheduled for that weekend for over a year - got told 6 week ago we'd have to change the date or cancel. We cancelled. 60 kids and parents are NOT happy.
 
Sulphur springs seems like an odd choice. Someone is going to end up in the lake
 
I've been to a few. 1/2 racing going 200mph I'm sure is a lot more fun then 200 in an airplane ha
 
ChemGuy said:
Most of those "drive real fast in a straight line" airport 'races' cost 1-200 per car. Many of them fill up months in advance with 100+ entries.
Obviously the airport, or someone is getting a cut. How much 100LL woukd they normally sell to guys doing pattern work or hamburger runs in that same time frame? If we aren't careful municipalities will figure out they can make more $$$ with less hassle doing this and the runways will be closed more often.
Click to expand...

This is my concern, the FBO operator at Sulphur Springs said they took out a few taxi lights and the organizer of the event paid him cash on the spot for the damage. These events are pretty lucrative I think its like $250-$300 per car for both days.
 
I am probably the only one here who thinks this way, but I don't think it is a good idea. Auto racing should be done somewhere besides on an airport.
 
Airport is probably one of the safest places to have 1/2 racing. No other type of track has enough straightaway to pull it off safely. I'm sure one day we will find that rocket scientist who can't read a notams and can't see the cars on the runway during downwind base and final.
 
somorris said:
I am probably the only one here who thinks this way, but I don't think it is a good idea. Auto racing should be done somewhere besides on an airport.
Click to expand...

So, if it comes down to airports closing because they don't have funding, versus being closed for a day or two to permit this racing, you'd rather see the airport close for good?
 
somorris said:
I am probably the only one here who thinks this way, but I don't think it is a good idea. Auto racing should be done somewhere besides on an airport.
Click to expand...

FAA Airport Compliance Order 5190.6b , Chapter 7.21(b)(1) or (2). If it is a federally funded airport. Regardless of funding source, any conditions unsafe to the operation of aircraft on a designated airport should be reported. It's an airport first and foremost. You're not the only one who thinks this way. Unfortunately, it is difficult for a hangar owner or pilot to express any negativity about these big money makers.

More and more municipalities are looking at airport facilities as a venue for non-aviation events. Many of the event planners are non-aviation people who neither understand the purpose of airports, nor the regulations to ensure a safe environment. Non-aviation events at airports can be successful with sufficient communication and planning. Without it, you have potential for injury and liability. The new thing has been where events are advertised as a "fly-in" to avoid being denied or restricted to areas off the airfield, where in fact it has little or nothing to do with aviation.
 
Instead of bitching about it, try embracing the event which brings a ton of money and people to the airport. You might even be able to bring some people into aviation by talking with them and taking them up on a flight after the races conclude. While I understand wanting to have an airport be only for aircraft, the opportunity to have infrequent events to keep up community relations should be coveted so as to maintain support.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
You must be new. Racing at airports has gone on for years! It's where drivers can get up to speed. I remember years ago , york drag o way , ( york, pa. Airport) had national type drags often. People like Don garlitz showed up with his green montster jet dragster. These events bring in badly needed revenue for airports that are on the verge of extinction! Being a GA FBO is not a great business to be in in most cases today.
 
SoonerAviator said:
Instead of bitching about it, try embracing the event which brings a ton of money and people to the airport. You might even be able to bring some people into aviation by talking with them and taking them up on a flight after the races conclude. While I understand wanting to have an airport be only for aircraft, the opportunity to have infrequent events to keep up community relations should be coveted so as to maintain support.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Do you really think anyone on that track gives a crap about planes or aviation? Are you naive enough to think they are going to talk to you about aviation? All they are concerned about is one thing and thats who has the fastest car. I participate in both sports and have friends that are pilots and friends that are gear heads, very few have money or the time for both. I am fortunate enough that my airport has a runway that is too short and too narrow to ever host an event but If I came out to fly and found out I was grounded for two days because cars are using the RR it would suck, and the more popular the events become the better the chance it will be yours.
 
iflyifr said:
FAA Airport Compliance Order 5190.6b , Chapter 7.21(b)(1) or (2). If it is a federally funded airport. Regardless of funding source, any conditions unsafe to the operation of aircraft on a designated airport should be reported. It's an airport first and foremost. You're not the only one who thinks this way. Unfortunately, it is difficult for a hangar owner or pilot to express any negativity about these big money makers.

More and more municipalities are looking at airport facilities as a venue for non-aviation events. Many of the event planners are non-aviation people who neither understand the purpose of airports, nor the regulations to ensure a safe environment. Non-aviation events at airports can be successful with sufficient communication and planning. Without it, you have potential for injury and liability. The new thing has been where events are advertised as a "fly-in" to avoid being denied or restricted to areas off the airfield, where in fact it has little or nothing to do with aviation.
Click to expand...

I'm glad to see someone pointed this out. If the airport is federally funded and an event such as what is being described is proposed to the FAA, they will be met with a quick NO to hosting the event. My guess is that many of the airport sponsors allowing these sort of events to happen are not aware of their obligations. Years ago, one of my local airports was approached by a snowmobile club wanting to do some racing at the airport. The response was "no, unless you want to pay back all the fedral funding." More recently, there was a group that wanted to do a 5k run at the airport. Again, the answer was a big "no" when proposed to the FAA.

As a tenant or pilot wanting to use the airport, I'd say there is indeed some recourse. I'd start locally but you could file a complaint with the airport district office, which might help.

Personally, I'd be ok with some non-aviation related events taking place at the airport for a few reasons. The primary one would be to bring a bit of money into the airport fund, and offset the costs of operating it each year. With the rules written as they are however, that is pretty much impossible to do if you want to play by the rules though.
 
coloradobluesky said:
Its ok so long as they let me land on the auto track straightway...
Click to expand...

LOL. Corporate pilot friend of mine started out many years ago building hours flying a Cessna jump plane for a skydiving outfit at one of our regional airports. Lived across the river from the airport because the rent was cheaper. Closest bridge across some distance around. Convinced the owners to let him commute using their jump plane, and convinced the drag strip owner on his side of the river to let him use the strip as a runway off the weekend race hours. Worked out well for all concerned from his description. I am almost certain the insurance boyz and the regulators would have something to say about that these days. Ah well, the price of "progress".
 
There is a grass runway at Sulfur Springs. Can you get to it with out using the taxiway or cross the paved runway?
Are aircraft owners unable to fly their planes compensated?

County management closed our airport one weekend for "RC air racing", we only operate on weekends. Racing team had to compensate the club for lost revenue, county had to not charge our tie down fees for that weekend. We were picking up plastic plane parts from crashes for 6 months.

The next year they tried to only close 1/2 the airport. The racers had to cross an active runway to get to the "race runaway ". Their safety and marshaling plan fell apart. It's a wonder no one was hurt.

When they started planning for a third year the county management said no.
 
Just want to point out that certain types of racing uses 100LL For fuel, so it's not necessarily a lost opportunity for the FBO.

I no longer use it, but I could and have used it in my dirt car.
 
tecprotb said:
Do you really think anyone on that track gives a crap about planes or aviation? Are you naive enough to think they are going to talk to you about aviation? All they are concerned about is one thing and thats who has the fastest car. I participate in both sports and have friends that are pilots and friends that are gear heads, very few have money or the time for both. I am fortunate enough that my airport has a runway that is too short and too narrow to ever host an event but If I came out to fly and found out I was grounded for two days because cars are using the RR it would suck, and the more popular the events become the better the chance it will be yours.
Click to expand...
Yes. Racing and flying go hand in hand in many cases. There is a lot of similarities between the two sports, but you have to look beyond "gearheads Bad" to see it.
 
The first trip to Oshkosh we made a fuel stop at BKL and the ATIS showed about 70% of the airport closed. It then occurred to me that the Cleveland Grand Prix was actually run on the airport (and scheduled for the next week).

Years ago I worked at a Saturday night NASCAR track that also had a drag strip. Once a month or so, the crew would go down to Lynchburg for a special Sunday drag event. It wasn't until I was ferrying a club plane back from the engine shop and landed at New London airport that I realized just where they were going. The runway had grandstands on both sides and a lot of burn out on the end. I turn to my copilot and say "You can't fool me. I work at a drag strip. This is a drag strip." It was then that I realized that this is where the Lynchburg races were held.

While we were stopped there a state trooper came up and asked when we'd be departing. No rush, says he, but they want to set up cones on the runway and practice driving fast. A few months later when I knew the drags were on, Margy and I made a few passes over the runway. Margy is rocking the wings and I can see my boss from ODS, Dick Gore looking up and waving at me. Talking to him later I find that he knew it had to be me but his brother was having a fit thinking that we were some pilot who'd missed the closure NOTAM and were going to try to land there. DIck's going "Calm down Gary, he works for me."

There are a few drag strips that are close enough to airports to warrant a mention in the airport record. Old Bridge, NJ is one. Years ago one of my flight instructors decided to land to checkout a new airport that had been constructed to find it was the beginnings of Maryland International Raceway.
 
mondtster said:
I'm glad to see someone pointed this out. If the airport is federally funded and an event such as what is being described is proposed to the FAA, they will be met with a quick NO to hosting the event. My guess is that many of the airport sponsors allowing these sort of events to happen are not aware of their obligations. Years ago, one of my local airports was approached by a snowmobile club wanting to do some racing at the airport. The response was "no, unless you want to pay back all the fedral funding." More recently, there was a group that wanted to do a 5k run at the airport. Again, the answer was a big "no" when proposed to the FAA.

As a tenant or pilot wanting to use the airport, I'd say there is indeed some recourse. I'd start locally but you could file a complaint with the airport district office, which might help.

Personally, I'd be ok with some non-aviation related events taking place at the airport for a few reasons. The primary one would be to bring a bit of money into the airport fund, and offset the costs of operating it each year. With the rules written as they are however, that is pretty much impossible to do if you want to play by the rules though.
Click to expand...

I've been involved with assisting airports in handling non-aeronautical events for the last decade or so. From 5k runs to automobile events requiring partial to full closures of an airport or its runway/taxiway network. With proper notification, coordination, and timing, the FAA has been more willing in recent years to permit these types of operations. It's not always a "no".
 
tecprotb said:
Do you really think anyone on that track gives a crap about planes or aviation? Are you naive enough to think they are going to talk to you about aviation? All they are concerned about is one thing and thats who has the fastest car. I participate in both sports and have friends that are pilots and friends that are gear heads, very few have money or the time for both. I am fortunate enough that my airport has a runway that is too short and too narrow to ever host an event but If I came out to fly and found out I was grounded for two days because cars are using the RR it would suck, and the more popular the events become the better the chance it will be yours.
Click to expand...

The two activities aren't without their similarities. Auto racing involves people with skills, passion, expendable money (usually), and the pursuit of an adrenaline rush. Yeah, that's completely different from a pilot and why so many people got into aviation in the first place. I also participate in racing and many other sports, and I get questions about flying and taking people up all of the time, doesn't matter if we're at the track, baseball diamond, or the soccer field. If it's only once or twice a year and it's announced well beforehand, it shouldn't pose much of an imposition for many to not fly out of/into that airport for a day or so. I'm not saying that it doesn't create some inconveniences, but it really does provide an opportunity to show support to the local community which can come in handy when those pesky neighbors start yapping about aircraft noise and try to put restrictions on the airfield.
 
When I was last at Sulphur Springs I noticed burnout tracks (lots of them) on the south end of the taxiway. I didn't see any on the runway.
 
If the occasional races,helps support the airport ,and the municipality,then I don't see a big downside to the mixed use.
 
Turningfinal said:
I've been involved with assisting airports in handling non-aeronautical events for the last decade or so. From 5k runs to automobile events requiring partial to full closures of an airport or its runway/taxiway network. With proper notification, coordination, and timing, the FAA has been more willing in recent years to permit these types of operations. It's not always a "no".
Click to expand...

That's good to know. The proposed 5k run was two years ago and when the ADO was contacted it was a very quick "NO" at that point in time. The other event I mentioned was longer ago.
 
I understand that runways provide a much longer, much wider strip for cars to be able to reach their top speed, and for someone who loves cars and planes like myself, it's kind of a cool once-in-a-blue-moon event. However, I think they do that drag race at FTG at least once a year which seems excessive and loses it's novelty after the first year.

I got up to 150 on Imboden once. Not quite my car's top speed but I'm a bit of a wimp and if I can do it, anyone can, right? So I don't see why the runway is necessary.
 
rachelk.tailwinds said:
I understand that runways provide a much longer, much wider strip for cars to be able to reach their top speed, and for someone who loves cars and planes like myself, it's kind of a cool once-in-a-blue-moon event. However, I think they do that drag race at FTG at least once a year which seems excessive and loses it's novelty after the first year.

I got up to 150 on Imboden once. Not quite my car's top speed but I'm a bit of a wimp and if I can do it, anyone can, right? So I don't see why the runway is necessary.
Click to expand...

No need for a track. Just find the right stretch of highway. Not that I've done that...innocent whistle.
 
GlennAB1 said:
Burnouts are for show, hooking up is racing.
Click to expand...

They have to get their tires warm somehow though. They do burnouts while they're waiting for the tree to get heat in them to hook better when it's actually time to get off the line.
 
EdFred said:
No need for a track. Just find the right stretch of highway. Not that I've done that...innocent whistle.
Click to expand...

Oh Imdoden's no track. This is the potholed 2-lane road us FTG folks know as the boundary to Denver's class B. Not one of my brightest moments, I will admit.
 
rachelk.tailwinds said:
Oh Imdoden's no track. This is the potholed 2-lane road us FTG folks know as the boundary to Denver's class B. Not one of my brightest moments, I will admit.
Click to expand...
I don't have the clearance for potholes....unless I get it going fast enough.
 
The Dallas Grand Prix ran on ADS for a few years in the '80s. Even back then, I'm sure Addison was busier than Sulfur Springs is.
 
Coolest picture I've seen of the course on BKL in Cleveland...

IMG_7109.jpg


Brian
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top