why full stop at take off and land once Solo?

bobmrg said:
Have you considered looking in Part 91 and the AIM to try to find such a "policy"?

Always, always, say "Show me where it says that." If you do not, your training will largely consist of Old Wive's Tales.

Bob Gardner
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Verifying that something is said nowhere at all, in a big thick book, is a tough assignment. Much harder than searching for something that is known to be there.

There's nothing wrong with asking that question on a forum.
 
I did touch and goes but my plane is pretty simple, on the roll adjust flaps as desired (up or 15 deg is acceptable; landing is done with 15 deg) and add power

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James331 said:
I did touch and goes as a student, I've always had my students do touch and goes as well, if you can't handle a touch and go you ain't ready to solo IMHO.
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Totally agree, however, I always have my students do full stops on first solo. Slows things down a little for those first solo jitters.
 
classicrock said:
(this will probably best be answered by the ATC controller on this website)

I just learned that part of going solo mean all landings are to a full stop before initiating takeoff

can any controllers explain why the FAA has had this policy?

comments appreciated
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Reference?
 
Tarheelpilot said:
Totally agree, however, I always have my students do full stops on first solo. Slows things down a little for those first solo jitters.
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I've debated this myself. But. We practice touch & goes so my students get good at touch & goes, as well as full-stop landings. So most first solos are two touch & goes and one full stop. No student has ever had an issue....of course, I'd have never soloed them if there had been a chance of a problem.
 
LDJones said:
I've debated this myself. But. We practice touch & goes so my students get good at touch & goes, as well as full-stop landings. So most first solos are two touch & goes and one full stop. No student has ever had an issue....of course, I'd have never soloed them if there had been a chance of a problem.
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Lol. Very true. I just do it to stack the deck in my students favor. I don't think there is a right or wrong answer on this one. Just a matter of CFI preference.
 
If you are flying tailwheel - only full stop landings count as landings for currency, not so for nosewheel aircraft except at night. In truth, there is a point in many tailwheel aircraft where slowing down to a stop can actually be more groundloop prone than the first third of the landing where many people start the "go" in touch and go, so practicing bringing the aircraft to a full stop is much more useful.
Also some cross country landing requirements are full stop. Other than that, restricting a student to full stop landings is the instructor's discretion - and privilege as you have to comply with any restrictions the CFI places on your endorsement. I've restricted students to full stop landings on occasion as I felt they got in too much of a hurry to reconfigure the aircraft or were more likely to forget something while other students were fine with touch and goes.
 
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To each his own but I refuse to do touch and goes. I think they develop bad habits because you never really complete the landing. I do stop and goes. There's not a paved runway that's too short for a C182A to safely do a stop and go....not around here anyway.

Touch and goes aren't worth the risk in my opinion since a full stop and go only takes about 30 seconds longer and is far safer.
 
SkyHog said:
The CFI needs to be informed before solo flight

Although, I suppose more accurately stated would be "A CFI needs to be informed...."
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Nope. No such requirement for that either. Once a student is endorsed and is flying in compliance with that endorsement, no additional "informing" is required.
 
flyingron said:
Nope. No such requirement for that either. Once a student is endorsed and is flying in compliance with that endorsement, no additional "informing" is required.
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Good thing, I did a lot of unsupervised un(pre)approved solo flying once I soloed. I owned my plane and flew the snot out of it.
 
I learned (and taught) before there was so much hand-wringing about touch and goes so I don't have any problem with them. I think I did touch and goes on my first solo. I know my first two landings in a couple of different jets were touch and goes.
 
Everskyward said:
I learned (and taught) before there was so much hand-wringing about touch and goes so I don't have any problem with them. I think I did touch and goes on my first solo. I know my first two landings in a couple of different jets were touch and goes.
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SkyWest used to do late night touch and goes with trainees back when fuel was cheaper.
 
flyingron said:
What does that have to do with full stops?
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Are you high, or are you not reading the thread before commenting?

Just to make sure, this post you quoted had nothing to do with full stops.
 
flyingron said:
Nope. No such requirement for that either. Once a student is endorsed and is flying in compliance with that endorsement, no additional "informing" is required.
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True. I do ask my students to call or text me when they're going to fly as a courtesy. But there's no regulatory requirement for that.
 
My gliding instructor insists on full stops for my solos, but I can't find it in the regs.
 
SkyHog said:
Are you high, or are you not reading the thread before commenting?

Just to make sure, this post you quoted had nothing to do with full stops.
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Can you post without throwing gratuitous insults? Sometimes, people lose track of the thread ESPECIALLY when there is minimal quoting of the context.
 
MAKG1 said:
1000 feet of float isn't all that much for a solo student pilot.
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Maybe it's just me, but 1,000 feet seems like a lot. Especially for a maneuver like landing.

MAKG1 said:
It's barely more than twice PTS.
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I think the PTS is quite generous if you are referring to being within 400 feet. I'm not sure how to react to your comment. There is also the 1.3Vso speed on approach as well.

MAKG1 said:
You don't seriously require PTS of your students before solo, do you?
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Again, maybe I don't know a whole lot, but what is the problem if the instructor wants the landings to meet PTS? Seems like a good idea to me.
 
noahfong said:
Maybe it's just me, but 1,000 feet seems like a lot. Especially for a maneuver like landing.



I think the PTS is quite generous if you are referring to being within 400 feet. I'm not sure how to react to your comment. There is also the 1.3Vso speed on approach as well.



Again, maybe I don't know a whole lot, but what is the problem if the instructor wants the landings to meet PTS? Seems like a good idea to me.
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If an instructor required PTS to solo, lots of people would never solo.

The threshold for solo -- not the check ride -- is consistently safe flying, including landings.

You don't expect perfect flying from a student in order to solo. That's excessive.

Similarly, you don't expect a student pilot to land in 25 knot crosswinds to solo. You restrict solo flight to exclude that instead.
 
The airport where I learned to fly prohibits touch and goes. My instructor and I would do them at other outlying fields, no sweat. I don't recall being told not to do them after my solo ticket. However, when my instructor and I were doing them, we popped the circuit breaker on retraction from full flaps. Flying a Cessna 172. A student who might have his hands full already, flips the flaps on the go and may not catch the fact they're not coming up until it's to late. They don't climb all that well with 40 degrees of flaps hanging out. If I was an instructor, for this reason alone, I would recommend full stop, reconfigure and takeoff, instead of touch and go's.
In the Comanche I fly or other aircraft with manual flaps, a different story. I still prefer full stop taxi back rather than doing touch and goes though.
 
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comanche pilot said:
The airport where I learned to fly prohibits touch and goes. My instructor and I would do them at other outlying fields, no sweat. I don't recall being told not to do them after my solo ticket. However, when my instructor and I were doing them, we popped the circuit breaker on retraction from full flaps. Flying a Cessna 172. A student who might have his hands full already, flips the flaps on the go and may not catch the fact they're not coming up until it's to late. They don't climb all that well with 40 degrees of flaps hanging out. If I was an instructor, for this reason alone, I would recommend full stop, reconfigure and takeoff, instead of touch and go's.
In the Comanche I fly or other aircraft with manual flaps, a different story. I still prefer full stop taxi back rather than doing touch and goes though.
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I think CPO (remember him?) had this happen to him on his first SOLO. Luckily his CFI had him doing full stops and he noticed the flaps didn't retract and taxied back for maintenance. I know I don't feel like I have time to visually check flap retraction when I'm doing touch and go's. I think I hear them retracting, hopefully I would notice if the sound was missing.
 
RotorDude said:
My gliding instructor insists on full stops for my solos, but I can't find it in the regs.
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I have actually aborted a landing in my glider.

After not finding lift to climb in, I decided to land at a crop duster strip.
I approached a bit fast so I could fly the length of the strip and stop at the far end. About 1/2 down the strip I realized my 50 foot wing span was going to be challenging to fit in onto the 30 foot wide strip with large rocks (6 to 10 " river rocks) out past the edges.

I retracted my flaps, pulled up and turned right. This strip is on top of a ledge next to a river. I crossed the river and was on right base for nice paved strip on the other side of the river about 400 feet below. It was about 20 miles further driving to come get me due to the river, but the outcome of the landing was much more predictable than my 1st choice of landing strip.

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL
 
brcase said:
I have actually aborted a landing in my glider.

After not finding lift to climb in, I decided to land at a crop duster strip.
I approached a bit fast so I could fly the length of the strip and stop at the far end. About 1/2 down the strip I realized my 50 foot wing span was going to be challenging to fit in onto the 30 foot wide strip with large rocks (6 to 10 " river rocks) out past the edges.

I retracted my flaps, pulled up and turned right. This strip is on top of a ledge next to a river. I crossed the river and was on right base for nice paved strip on the other side of the river about 400 feet below. It was about 20 miles further driving to come get me due to the river, but the outcome of the landing was much more predictable than my 1st choice of landing strip.

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL
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Good job!
Did you have that backup plan in mind while on final to the first strip?
What was your airspeed before you pulled up?
And glider type?
 
MAKG1 said:
If an instructor required PTS to solo, lots of people would never solo.
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I don't know about that. I've known quite a few student pilots who, when they soloed, landed within, or close to, what you refer to as PTS standards. And they soloed within 15 hours.
 
timwinters said:
To each his own but I refuse to do touch and goes. I think they develop bad habits because you never really complete the landing. I do stop and goes. There's not a paved runway that's too short for a C182A to safely do a stop and go....not around here anyway.



Touch and goes aren't worth the risk in my opinion since a full stop and go only takes about 30 seconds longer and is far safer.
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Except if you abort a landing, be nice to have some experience at T&Gs before you try it.
 
As others have stated, that's not an FAR, its a condition of your instructor's endorsement to fly solo and can be removed later. My initial solo was three full-stop taxi-backs, not even stop-n-gos. Better safe and soloed than sorry.

Later, he removed that restriction and I was able to practice T&Gs within certain wind and xwind component parameters.. during the day, etc. The instructor is allowed to set your solo conditions while you're a student pilot.
 
petrolero said:
As others have stated, that's not an FAR, its a condition of your instructor's endorsement to fly solo and can be removed later. My initial solo was three full-stop taxi-backs, not even stop-n-gos. Better safe and soloed than sorry.

Later, he removed that restriction and I was able to practice T&Gs within certain wind and xwind component parameters.. during the day, etc. The instructor is allowed to set your solo conditions while you're a student pilot.
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Privileges like training often take a progressive course and justifiably so in my opinion. Sounds like your CFI had good judgment.
 
LDJones said:
True. I do ask my students to call or text me when they're going to fly as a courtesy. But there's no regulatory requirement for that.
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Yea same. I'll have them call me and talk about weather, Notams, etc.
 
dmspilot said:
References?
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Can't find nuthin' dmspilot so I guess I am mistaken. Got that from some where. Any way, the first solo has to be supervised as far as I am concerned. Gotta be on the radio with them just in case, not to mention I am not going to sign them off after getting out and walk away and go home.

David
 
flhrci said:
Can't find nuthin' dmspilot so I guess I am mistaken. Got that from some where. Any way, the first solo has to be supervised as far as I am concerned. Gotta be on the radio with them just in case, not to mention I am not going to sign them off after getting out and walk away and go home.

David
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No radio requirement otherwise I could have never soloed guys in the Cub.


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noahfong said:
I don't know about that. I've known quite a few student pilots who, when they soloed, landed within, or close to, what you refer to as PTS standards. And they soloed within 15 hours.
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When I solo my students, I'm not looking for perfection. I'm looking for consistently safe landings. If they perform to PTS standards, it's an added bonus.
 
flyingron said:
Nope. No such requirement for that either. Once a student is endorsed and is flying in compliance with that endorsement, no additional "informing" is required.
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What a student needs to get done before the checkride and ultimately to get the license is in the FAR. But HOW a student gets those things done are decided by the CFI.

Most CFIs will require students to do full stop and even taxi-back on their demonstrated first three solo landings in order to get the solo endorsement.

Most CFIs will require students to call them before taking off on long XC. They want to be available in case the student gets into trouble.

And the FAR does require for night work ten full stop landings and a XC.
 
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Is 61.109 not current? Full stop landings all over this one. http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgFar.nsf/FARSBySectLookup/61.109

I believe the reason for requiring full stop is to incorporate the full experience of landing and taking off. This might be like having a driver's permit and doing lots of cross country driving, but never parking the car. You don't have to do it every landing, but you should do it more than once or twice.

On the other hand, my instructor also had her rule that I do all landings to full stop at first because she wanted to make sure I knew all the steps involved with a roll and go, such as flaps retraction, runway length, etc.
 
You're reading it incorrectly.

You need 3 hours of night AND 10 full stop landings AND a night XC.

That does not mean you need a 3 hour night flight, during which you make 10 landings while flying a XC.

As long as you tick each check box at some point, you're good to go.
 
flhrci said:
Can't find nuthin' dmspilot so I guess I am mistaken. Got that from some where. Any way, the first solo has to be supervised as far as I am concerned. Gotta be on the radio with them just in case, not to mention I am not going to sign them off after getting out and walk away and go home.
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You're quite mistaken. There's no requirement for "supervision." THere's a whole section of the section 61 that details what you need to be SURE you have taught your student before allowing him to go solo (even locally) and a whole slew more before he can go XC. That obviates the need to sit there and jabber at him over the radio.

In fact the "talking the student through it on the radio" is one of the stupidest trends in modern instruction. Sort of neglects the whole point of solo. I dumped my instructor out on the ramp and taxied out for my three full stops as we agreed. Apparently the departure of the instructor was not missed by the tower. Upon turning crosswind on my first solo takeoff, the tower asked if it didn't fly a lot better without that fat guy in the right seat.
 
d5by5 said:
Most CFIs will require students to do full stop and even taxi-back on their demonstrated first three solo landings in order to get the solo endorsement.
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How on earth can you do solo full stops BEFORE you get a solo endorsement.
And the FAR does require ten full stop landings on the night XC.
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That's not a solo requirement. The required night training must be done with an instructor and won't count if you do it solo.
 
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