In this episode of "What would you do?"

Frogs97 said:
Left 270 or right? That was this guy's deal, is he said all turns have to be to the left. Since I was above TPA I didn't think it was an issue and I wasn't technically in the pattern until after I came in on the 45
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People like to make up regulations to explain why everyone should do it the way they do it.
 
FastEddieB said:
Maybe.

But is there not a benefit to everyone doing it the same way?

Certainly makes things more predictable!
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Not really, you just need to act predictably in a predictable place, and follow basic protocols (turns all one way) and common sense things are pretty safe and reasonable. In 2500 hours I've had some traffic issue in the pattern once or twice. Normally it's clear on the radio long before conflict, or even more often at an uncontrolled airport, there is no traffic, and I may be it for the next hour or even day.
 
FastEddieB said:
Not quite.

§91.126 Operating on or in the vicinity of an airport in Class G airspace.
(a) General. Unless otherwise authorized or required, each person operating an aircraft on or in the vicinity of an airport in a Class G airspace area must comply with the requirements of this section.

(b) Direction of turns. When approaching to land at an airport without an operating control tower in Class G airspace—

(1) Each pilot of an airplane must make all turns of that airplane to the left unless the airport displays approved light signals or visual markings indicating that turns should be made to the right, in which case the pilot must make all turns to the right;...

So, by law, if you choose to fly a pattern you must abide by 91.126. Probably rare, but a pilot could be violated for doing otherwise.

The catch is there's nothing that states a pilot must fly a pattern. So the other option is straight in with no turns in the pattern.
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so how do you explain when you do the "holy grail" 45 to downwind that you are doing a right turn? it violates the above part about all turns to the left.

so does this mean that the only "legal" option is to cross midfield at TPA and turn left to the downwind? ( that's how I would enter) otherwise at some point you will have to turn right in the vicinity of the airport to enter that 45.

bob burns

 
I think this has been hashed out repeatedly.

Per the FAA's own diagrams and descriptions the initial 45° right turn to enter a left pattern is both appropriate and legal. I think the reasoning is you are not yet in the pattern at that point.

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If a pilot ever were violated for such an entry, that very diagram would make for a pretty convincing defense.
 
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There's a Counsel opinion saying the right turn from the 45 is exempt from .126

However, I'm still wondering why people think it is safe to find the traffic, then fly away from the traffic, lose where it is at, not see new traffic that might be arriving from behind you, and then try to find all the traffic again when you turn back to the field.

The overfly/turn your back to the traffic/return is horrible suggesting by the FAA. Absolutely horrible.

And just because the FAA recommends it, whatever. If the FAA recommended starting an engine with full throttle would you do it just because the FAA says to?

Use your brains people. Convince me why losing sight of all the traffic is a good thing.
 
AerialGhost said:
Going to the Beacon Cafe??
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Yuppers. Actually, I saw Tango Whiskey pull up right as I was taxiing off. Had my wife not been fighting a splitting headache, I very likely would have circled back to park to finally meet some PoAers.
 
EdFred said:
There's a Counsel opinion saying the right turn from the 45 is exempt from .126

However, I'm still wondering why people think it is safe to find the traffic, then fly away from the traffic, lose where it is at, not see new traffic that might be arriving from behind you, and then try to find all the traffic again when you turn back to the field.

The overfly/turn your back to the traffic/return is horrible suggesting by the FAA. Absolutely horrible.

And just because the FAA recommends it, whatever. If the FAA recommended starting an engine with full throttle would you do it just because the FAA says to?

Use your brains people. Convince me why losing sight of all the traffic is a good thing.
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In this scenario, isn't there a likelihood that you would lose site of traffic at some point, no matter what you did?
 
Frogs97 said:
In this scenario, isn't there a likelihood that you would lose site of traffic at some point, no matter what you did?
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Not coming straight in, you have the entire pattern in sight the entire time.
 
Frogs97 said:
In this scenario, isn't there a likelihood that you would lose site of traffic at some point, no matter what you did?
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Putting your back to the airport, absolutely. Flying straight in, nope. Entering an upwind, nope. Midfield (or nearer the departure end) crosswind, nope. The only scenario has you losing sight of traffic is the ever so asinine put your back to the airport recommendation the FAA crapped out.
 
FastEddieB said:
I think this has been hashed out repeatedly.

Per the FAA's own diagrams and descriptions the initial 45° right turn to enter a left pattern is both appropriate and legal. I think the reasoning is you are not yet in the pattern at that point.

100-1.jpg


If a pilot ever were violated for such an entry, that very diagram would make for a pretty convincing defense.
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:yeahthat:100%.
 
But if you're not going to use the pattern there is no need to enter it. Fly straight in when applicable. If you are flying in on an angle that is acute to the centerline, you hit final 3+ out and come straight in.
 
Frogs97 said:
Yuppers. Actually, I saw Tango Whiskey pull up right as I was taxiing off. Had my wife not been fighting a splitting headache, I very likely would have circled back to park to finally meet some PoAers.
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Awesome! I still have yet to fly myself in to eat at the cafe as a pilot. Flew in with Dad plenty of times when I was little, and have recently done touch and goes there, just never stopped to grab a bite.
 
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