*NA* Roadster recommendations

[kyleb]

If we're going insane classic Ferrari, I'll have one of these please:
http://classiccars.com/listings/vie...-250-gt-for-sale-in-monterey-california-93940

There are 2 somewhat neglected Italian sports cars that can be had for reasonable money and they're the Fiat 128 Spyder and the Alfa Romeo Spyder Veloce. I used to drive the crap out of both of those and hardly ever had problems. The Fiat had a Ferrari 4cyl in it and would run really hard on FI or a pair of Webers.

Parking Attendant: "Nice Thunderbird"...

 

[Henning]

Parking Attendant: "Nice Thunderbird"...

They can think what they want.

 

[Silvaire]

...There are 2 somewhat neglected Italian sports cars that can be had for reasonable money and they're the Fiat 128 Spyder and the Alfa Romeo Spyder Veloce...

I've had this Alfa for over 35 years and it has almost 400,000 miles on it. Of course it's no Volvo, I've rebuilt the engine three times.

 

[Henning]

I've had this Alfa for over 35 years and it has almost 400,000 miles on it. Of course it's no Volvo, I've rebuilt the engine three times.

Very nice, I'd have another. I always though Alfa Romeo was an under rated mark, they did some good cars.

 

[mtuomi]

Better choices now. The current GM Ecotec four bangers blow the Cosworth engine away. They have a very robust bottom end and can easily handle a lot of boost without any internal mods necessary, plus you get electronic direct injection.

Isnt that the Opel Z20LET/LEH engine?

 

[Silvaire]

I've had many Alfas as have my two brothers. We started out with Triumphs in the 60's but always pined for the more expensive Alfa. They pulled out of the states in 95, along with many other European manufacturers, but there has always been a strong enthusiast organization and parts have never been a problem. The end result is that, for the right person, they have been the best kept secret in North America for decades. I still own three of them, the Spider and two 1991 164S models that I use for daily drivers. They aren't for everyone and I wouldn't want them to be.

 

[James331]

MGBs are sweet little cars, I have a 69' GT.

They are a car for someone who likes to tinker on them though, much more of a keeper car and attention getter than the others.

The boxster is a Porsche for a rich guys 16yr old daughter, it's not a real Porsche, and will get you strange looks, much like a man driving a miatia.


Look into a V8 MGC too.

Moss motors and Victoria Brit has all the parts and, original and High performance that you'll ever need.

 

[mtuomi]

I've had many Alfas as have my two brothers. We started out with Triumphs in the 60's but always pined for the more expensive Alfa. They pulled out of the states in 95, along with many other European manufacturers, but there has always been a strong enthusiast organization and parts have never been a problem. The end result is that, for the right person, they have been the best kept secret in North America for decades. I still own three of them, the Spider and two 1991 164S models that I use for daily drivers. They aren't for everyone and I wouldn't want them to be.

I loved my 166. (As I did my 75 v6, 2 155s, 90, gtv6, gtv and 916 spider)
One of the better things about living in europe is that you can own decent cars.

 

[Henning]

MGBs are sweet little cars, I have a 69' GT.

They are a car for someone who likes to tinker on them though, much more of a keeper car and attention getter than the others.

The boxster is a Porsche for a rich guys 16yr old daughter, it's not a real Porsche, and will get you strange looks, much like a man driving a miatia.


Look into a V8 MGC too.

Moss motors and Victoria Brit has all the parts and, original and High performance that you'll ever need.

I hadn't seen a V8 MGC in the wild, have come across a few MGB-GT V8s that were a lot of fun as long as you didn't need to stop too quickly.

 

[James331]

I hadn't seen a V8 MGC in the wild, have come across a few MGB-GT V8s that were a lot of fun as long as you didn't need to stop too quickly.

Moss has a kit for that

http://www.mossmotors.com/Shop/ViewProducts.aspx?PlateIndexID=59300

 

[Silvaire]

MGBs are sweet little cars, I have a 69' GT...

They were, simple and elegant but the problems for Mg's and Triumphs and Alfas began in the 70's with draconian US DOT regs. The MGB wasn't so elegant in 1975 with 500 lb bumpers jacked up to comply with pickup truck height standards or that huge vinyl facia they had to plaster over the elegant dash to comply with passenger safety standards. Emissions regulations at that time were inevitable and necessary but they pretty much doomed anything with a carburetor. Alfa did better as they had adopted mechanical fuel injection in 1969 that carried them through to 1981 when Bosch EFI became pretty much universal. Even the late 70's cars retained at least some of the spirit without a lot of Rube Goldberg devices.

 

[Dav8or]

Isnt that the Opel Z20LET/LEH engine?

It is not the same engine. The LET/LEH engine is an Opel design, the L850 used in the Solstice is an international cooperative design between Opel, GM power train in Michigan, SAAB and the work was carried out at Lotus. Both engines are marketed under the "Ecotec" branding.

Here's how stupid it is- The Opel engine is technically called, Family II, Z20LET, Ecotec, while the Solstice GXP engine is technically called, L850, Generation 2, LNF Ecotec. Two completely different engines that are pretty much the same if that makes sense. Both concurrently made, both redundant.

Due to internal and national politics as well as mergers and acquisitions over the years, GM has a lot of redundancy in it's four cylinder engine line up and it's confusing. I think they are ultimately working towards simpler line ups and one world type platforms, but when you create a monster that once was GM, I guess it takes time to steer the ship on a new course.

 

[Henning]

It is not the same engine. The LET/LEH engine is an Opel design, the L850 used in the Solstice is an international cooperative design between Opel, GM power train in Michigan, SAAB and the work was carried out at Lotus. Both engines are marketed under the "Ecotec" branding.

Here's how stupid it is- The Opel engine is technically called, Family II, Z20LET, Ecotec, while the Solstice GXP engine is technically called, L850, Generation 2, LNF Ecotec. Two completely different engines that are pretty much the same if that makes sense. Both concurrently made, both redundant.

Due to internal and national politics as well as mergers and acquisitions over the years, GM has a lot of redundancy in it's four cylinder engine line up and it's confusing. I think they are ultimately working towards simpler line ups and one world type platforms, but when you create a monster that once was GM, I guess it takes time to steer the ship on a new course.

Not only that, but even though they are redundant, they are in competition for which will be the "corporate engine" that is the lone survivor of this generation of development. GM is no stranger to this kind of thing, it happened in the 70s as well.

 

[SoonerAviator]

I think GM (sometimes Ford/Mopar as well) are excellent examples of redundant products. Nothing like manufacturing Monte Carlos/Grand Prix, Camaros/Firebirds, Cavalier/Sunfire, Challenger/Cuda, Crown Vic/Grand Marquis, Taurus/Sable, etc!

They still should have shelved the Chevy cars (other than Vette) and let Pontiac's designs stay in place.

 

[Anthony]

In the 80's I got to fullfil my wishes, and ended up getting a 1961 MGA, fixed head coupe, also right hand drive. I also had a 1967 MGB. Both were fun, but needed attention as others have said. I sold them when I started flying.

I would pick the Miata. Reliable, fun, with catalogs, and catalogs of after market parts. Classic roadster in the British sense, but reliable. Chip it, change the plugs, and timing, add a cold air intake, and it will scream!

 

[mtuomi]

What part did Saab play with the design? Thats news for me.

What ECU does the turbo engine use? Bosch ME1.5.5 or ME7.6.2/3 like earlier Opels or ME9.6 like the later ones? Or do they use some Delco/Bosch licensed nonsense?

It's a shame GM never figured out who makes the good stuff. They killed the variable compression petrol engine project at Saab, they killed the Saab Trionic project who had by far the most advanced EFI controller (Trionic 8) at the time, and introduced the Opel sh*t with outsourced Bosch ECUs.
Saab ended up bankrupt because they wanted to do things right. A classic example is their GPS system.

When developing the GPS nav system for the 9-3SS/9-5NG, they were told by GM here's the system, use this.
Saab tested it and said no, this is rubbish - and developed their own - which is fantastic. But was also insanely expensive for a small manufacturer.

If it wasn't for inept leaders of the GM group, Saab would still be alive, and would be the R&D powerhouse for the whole GM group. Now all of GM is sinking into oblivion, because no-one wants to buy anything they have for sale.

It is not the same engine. The LET/LEH engine is an Opel design, the L850 used in the Solstice is an international cooperative design between Opel, GM power train in Michigan, SAAB and the work was carried out at Lotus. Both engines are marketed under the "Ecotec" branding.

Here's how stupid it is- The Opel engine is technically called, Family II, Z20LET, Ecotec, while the Solstice GXP engine is technically called, L850, Generation 2, LNF Ecotec. Two completely different engines that are pretty much the same if that makes sense. Both concurrently made, both redundant.

Due to internal and national politics as well as mergers and acquisitions over the years, GM has a lot of redundancy in it's four cylinder engine line up and it's confusing. I think they are ultimately working towards simpler line ups and one world type platforms, but when you create a monster that once was GM, I guess it takes time to steer the ship on a new course.

 

[Henning]

Making "The Best Business Decision" is not about making the best product, it is about creating the greatest share value. Cars are not the commodity being produced, money is the commodity being produced, cars are just the tool used to make money. This is the wasteful reality of capitalism and why the commoditization of money was forbidden at the inception of money.

 

[docmirror]

They still should have shelved the Chevy cars (other than Vette) and let Pontiac's designs stay in place.

Pontiac hasn't really been Pontiac for +40 years. However, I tend to agree with you, that I would like to have seen Chevy get the big heave ho and keep Pontiac. Also Saturn. While Saturn was not well respected in many areas, they sold right, and were an honest value proposition. Once Saturn got out of it's niche of basic transportation, they started going pear shaped. The Sky, and the Vue hybrid and red line were examples of where Saturn had no business marketing. Fine, make a little roadster, but make it cheap and easy. Make a small SUV but leave the hybrid and performance stuff to Pontiac or some other badge.

It angered me when Pontiac rebadged the Holden as the new GTO. Nothing wrong with the car, but why build it half a world away, and then make it some kind of retro-market concept? I actually liked the car, but Pontiac was on it's last legs.

 

[James331]

They were, simple and elegant but the problems for Mg's and Triumphs and Alfas began in the 70's with draconian US DOT regs. The MGB wasn't so elegant in 1975 with 500 lb bumpers jacked up to comply with pickup truck height standards or that huge vinyl facia they had to plaster over the elegant dash to comply with passenger safety standards. Emissions regulations at that time were inevitable and necessary but they pretty much doomed anything with a carburetor. Alfa did better as they had adopted mechanical fuel injection in 1969 that carried them through to 1981 when Bosch EFI became pretty much universal. Even the late 70's cars retained at least some of the spirit without a lot of Rube Goldberg devices.

Agree 100%

If you're spending any money on a MGB you're only going to be looking for a chrome bumper, center knock off wheeled 69' or earlier.

 

[SoonerAviator]

Pontiac hasn't really been Pontiac for +40 years. . . It angered me when Pontiac rebadged the Holden as the new GTO. Nothing wrong with the car, but why build it half a world away, and then make it some kind of retro-market concept? I actually liked the car, but Pontiac was on it's last legs.

I was mainly referring to their vehicle design aspects. The Firebird was always better looking than the Camaro, the Grand Prix better than the Monte Carlo, etc. I do agree that they crashed and burned on the new GTO (Holden) when they just re-badged it. When they called it the G8, it was fine. The GTO should have been so much better from an exterior design standpoint. SO many cues they could have taken from the 60's/70's models (taillights, hood tach, etc). The bad part about it was the Holden "GTO" was actually a pretty great sports coupe with good seats and lots of power fom the LS1/2.

Pontiac's GXP-series were pretty exciting vehicles as well. The GXP Solstice (as mentioned earlier in the thread) and Grand Prix/G8-GXP were great little cars.

 

[Henning]

Agree 100%

If you're spending any money on a MGB you're only going to be looking for a chrome bumper, center knock off wheeled 69' or earlier.

Knock offs are nice, I will admit, but for the cost and availability, I wouldn't make them a requirement.

 

[RalphInCA]

BMW Z4. Even here in car crazy SoCal, it turns heads and gets comments.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[asicer]

If you want the genuine Roadster experience then do what I did and build and drive a Caterham Super Seven Sprint.

Are we looking for actual transportation? Or is this for pure fun? A Caterham demands some pretty hefty sacrifices of practicality.

 

[Dav8or]

What part did Saab play with the design? Thats news for me.

I have no idea, but I do know the twin scroll turbo used on the Solstice GXP/Sky Redline is directly lifted from SAAB.

It's a shame GM never figured out who makes the good stuff. They killed...

...If it wasn't for inept leaders of the GM group, Saab would still be alive, and would be the R&D powerhouse for the whole GM group.

Oh ho ho!! A bitter SAAB fan I see. Truth is, SAAB was a niche car maker that was failing long before GM ever got there. All GM really got out of the deal was a deficit on their balance sheet. Bad purchase decision on their part. For the sake of both companies they should have left SAAB to go on their own or have somebody else take them on.

As to the R&D power house... I don't know about that. They may have had some idea here and there, but clearly not enough to save their own brand and expand market share. As far as I can tell, SAAB has been an unique odd ball European brand with mediocre reliability and mediocre performance just like most of the world, but at a slightly higher cost. Kind of like a Nordic Citroen.

Now all of GM is sinking into oblivion, because no-one wants to buy anything they have for sale.

Clearly not the case here in the US. Their cars and trucks are selling just fine here. In Europe and the rest of the world, IDK.

I do know that Opal is really hurting and a liability for GM. That is mostly in part due to the European car market being in a huge slump. Unlike many other European brands, Opel pretty much only sells in Europe. Most of the other EU brands have good export sales to help them through this slump.

 

[Dav8or]

BMW Z4. Even here in car crazy SoCal, it turns heads and gets comments.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Can you get one for $15k I kind of doubt it, but then I haven't checked. Don't know about turning heads though. Pretty standard car around here. Turning stomachs I would believe. BMW has lost it's way. The Z8 is the direction they should have gone, but alas...

 

[denverpilot]

If you're willing to consider MGs (and that's a bold move), you might also look at the Fiat 124 / Pininfarina Spyders. Nice little buggies, as long as you know how to clean the contacts in a fusebox (dissimilar metal corrosion).



Or a Triumph TR-6?



But really, an S2000 would be nice.



And don't forget the amazingly-good Pontiac Saturn Sky / Pontiac Solstice, great little roadsters killed by corporate ineptness.

We've had both the Spyder and an older Miata in the family, as well as an MGB. The Spyder beat the Miata for fun driving, hands down. MGB was great when it would run.

The Miata wasn't bad but the seat complaints are echoed here. I'd have had to have given it a "foam-ectomy" to not be staring into the top windshield frame all the time at 5' 11", and even then it'd still be too small for my ass.

Miata, older lighter ones are more fun. The fat assed modern ones are trying too hard to be a Honda. Ours was a 2000 Limited Edition in British Racing Green. Had enough power to go but wasn't as torque-y feeling as the Spyder years before.

Both needed good, no great, tires to really enjoy them. Twisting in the mountains isn't fun if the ass end is always coming loose.

We sold it to a smaller dude who was a family friend and knew dad and he fits it. It just turned 60,000 miles original. He sent a photo. They made sure it turned over on a day trip to go have fun.

The Spyder has been gone a long time and I wish someone had kept it and mothballed it. I'd have happily rebuilt it.

It had been repainted from its original fire engine barf green to a beautiful metallic dark gun metal grey after an accident and some body work in the 80s and good lord that made it a pretty car.

The top on the Spyder was the Achilles heel. It'd leak a gallon on anyone sitting in it if you were standing outside and sneezed on it hard. Haha. Replaced regularly it'd just crack again. Usually near the rear "window".

Carb was also a PITA on the Spyder but not anywhere near as bad as the MGB.

The stock carb on the MGB had us sitting on the side of the road messing with it or getting that thing towed, more than it ran under its own power. LOL.

Reliable: Miata. No question. Get the old ones and fix them up. New ones are too fat, just like Cessnas. Haha.

Fun: Spyder. Way too much fun.

Pain in the ass: MGB.

 

[SoonerAviator]

Clearly not the case here in the US. Their cars and trucks are selling just fine here. In Europe and the rest of the world, IDK.

Agreed. Their trucks and SUV's have carried them, though. Until they released the new Impala, I wouldn't have owned a single car they made from the past decade and a half, sans Corvette. The new Impala is leaps and bounds better than any car they have built and is finally on par or better than the competitors in its class.

That being said, I'm more of a Ford guy as far as domestics go. Ford's lineup of vehicles is about as solid top-to-bottom as any other car maker at the moment.

 

[Jimmy cooper]

I owned a 92 Ford Mustang 5.0. It was a real piece of junk. It was my last american car. Poorly built, lousy stick shift, weak rear end. Junk.

 

[guardrail]

Decide on your drive/fix ratio. If it's higher than 20/1, get the Honda S2000 or the Mazda Miata. I've had the Mazda for a short time, good car and easy to fix. Honda will require some whining in the gears to make it really go.

If you go for the Boxster, make SURE that the IMS bearing has been upgraded, and the main seal is not leaking. There were also issues with some other parts of the engine, but don't want to belabor it.

For a few more bucks, I would move up into the Porsche 996 Carerra cabrio. Gobs of power, can get auto or 6 sp, and light years beyond the Boxster.

http://losangeles.craigslist.org/sgv/ctd/5116686565.html

Just up the road from you. Again, you MUST insure the IMS bearing is upgraded. If not, budget $1200 for the job at an indy repair place and drive in comfort.

Higher mileage, but looks well kept.

http://sandiego.craigslist.org/csd/ctd/5097027217.html

I'd go for this way before the Boxster or Boxster S. Some come with AWD as well as auto.

My parents have had a Miata as the weekend car for about the last 10 years. It has been phenomenal. It's an amazing little car, I think even back then they paid well under $10k for it.

I've got a 996 'vert. Actually nearly identical to the first one linked here except tan interior. I shopped hard for it, 2 owner car with full record history. Absolutely immaculate inside and out. The IMS is a huge scare factor, but it's not that serious of a deal if it's caught and dealt with during preventative maintenance. They also have the hard top although a lot of people didn't seem to keep them around. The car is well balanced and is a blast on the street, I don't track it though. I think a lightly modded Miata would be better for that. If you want an enjoyable cruiser the Porsce is hard to beat.

 

[Bill]

Porsche 996 Carerra cabrio.

What years were the 996 cars? I always see them recommended as a good series.

 

[docmirror]

What years were the 996 cars? I always see them recommended as a good series.

98-2004 for the non-turbo cars. All are affected(to greater or lesser degree) by the IMS bearing fault. Turbo cars have a different design, not affected.

There are good and bad about the 996. It was the first flat rear engine Porsche completely water cooled. There were some teething issues. Early cars used a press in cyl liner, and they had a tendency to crack or detach. Went too cheap on early case materials and suffered from porosity, heads tend to crack, oil drain tubes made of plastic, air-oil separators don't last, and the IMS.

By 02 the engines were better after several iterations. There's a lot of weight behind the axle now, so the understeer problem is slightly worse. Porsche thought they were going to get rid of it with the 'Carrera 4' which is the AWD variant, with a diff and drive axles up front, but it still has understeer, just that it's a bit more manageable.

It's one car that requires a PPI by a well qualified tech on the 996. Plenty of little gotchas to check that can wind up costing big money. But - when you get a good one, they are a complete blast to drive sporty!

 

[docmirror]

Another often overlooked car from Porsche in the roadster version is the 968 cabrio. It was the final iteration of the 944 with a bored out I-4 with just gobs of torque. Rear transaxle for good weight dist and avail with either 6sp manual or the tip. I've had two 968s and aside from the A pillar being kind of up close, the rest of the car is delightful. Not many sold, so you won't see another one on the road, unlike the Miata which is everywhere.

Massive 4 pot brakes and very elegant lines once the front and rear facia and lighting were modified from the 944. The car looks like it could roll off the showroom today, despite being > 20 years old. Get the 94/95 vintage with improvements in the Tip trans, and also the better dual mass clutch and PP.

https://www.bing.com/images/search?...m=QBIR&pq=porsche 968 cabrio&sc=8-18&sp=1&sk=

Low miles, midnight blue, tip, cab and well within price range:

http://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/cto/5121600977.html

Stunning. Rootwood interior was a very costly option:

http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/dak/cto/5076811652.html

 

[Paul Hamilton]

True. However those are fair weather, short distance drivers. They are more about attracting attention to yourself and polishing than anything else. They are not practical cars, just toys to play with and there is nothing wrong with that at all in my book.

Here is a practical daily driver that can give you a similar "breaking the law go cart in the street" driving experience for a fraction the cost-

I've often felt that the Manx dunebuggies were the last sports cars. Back in the 1960s, Corvair-powered Manxes dominated autocrosses on the West Coast, even beating factory Cobras on one occasion.I drove a similar vehicle, an Autokit Invader for ten years in A Modified, driving it to and from the event with race tires strapped to the roll cage. It was a reliable daily driver and I even drove it across the country to the east coast. It was however, inferior in creature comforts (no heater, radio, or sound insulation) to a Lotus 7, something worth noting if that sort of stuff matters to you.

 

[Henning]

Another often overlooked car from Porsche in the roadster version is the 968 cabrio. It was the final iteration of the 944 with a bored out I-4 with just gobs of torque. Rear transaxle for good weight dist and avail with either 6sp manual or the tip. I've had two 968s and aside from the A pillar being kind of up close, the rest of the car is delightful. Not many sold, so you won't see another one on the road, unlike the Miata which is everywhere.

Massive 4 pot brakes and very elegant lines once the front and rear facia and lighting were modified from the 944. The car looks like it could roll off the showroom today, despite being > 20 years old. Get the 94/95 vintage with improvements in the Tip trans, and also the better dual mass clutch and PP.

https://www.bing.com/images/search?...m=QBIR&pq=porsche 968 cabrio&sc=8-18&sp=1&sk=

Low miles, midnight blue, tip, cab and well within price range:

http://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/cto/5121600977.html

Stunning. Rootwood interior was a very costly option:

http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/dak/cto/5076811652.html

My neighbor had one that I did a bit of work on and drove some. It was an interesting car for sure, but I was never a fan of that entire lineage from Porsche, and that includes the 928. A 60s/70s 911, that's a nice car.

 

[Jimmy cooper]

Late 80s 911. Great porsche.

 

[docmirror]

My neighbor had one that I did a bit of work on and drove some. It was an interesting car for sure, but I was never a fan of that entire lineage from Porsche, and that includes the 928. A 60s/70s 911, that's a nice car.

Yup, there are millions of Porsche 911 air cooled snobs out there. You're in the majority.

The 928 felt the wrath of all the air cooled elitists in the late 70s and into the 80s. They absolutely hated that the 928 was a superior car to the 911 vintage. Advanced patented Weissach rear axle design, plastic molded bumper covers, hideaway headlights, 50-50 weight dist, all with AC, power windows, power seats, and some had auto trans! The hate-fest was wide and long from the 911 fashionistas. It was one thing to have a 924, semi VW, bastard child with a crest, but a V8 supercar! Blasphemy. harumpf, harumpf.

 

[comanche pilot]

Here's another car 911 drivers love to hate on.
I have always enjoyed my 914. Some day it would be fun to put a tricked out 2.7 or 3.0 from a 911 in it. It fits just right in the hangar. It used to be you could pick up a decent driver for 5K, but those days seem to have slipped away. Now days you're probably going to spend 10k for a 2.0 litre with the perfromance group.

 

[Jimmy cooper]

Porsche came close to discontinuing the air cooled car. It always had many of the same problems that similar aircraft engines have had. When the first water cooled engines were introduced, late nintys, there were problems, not to mention seal and bearing problems, many of which porsche did not stand behind. These have supposedly been rectified , however I would not drive one that was not under factory warranty.

 

[Henning]

Yup, there are millions of Porsche 911 air cooled snobs out there. You're in the majority.

The 928 felt the wrath of all the air cooled elitists in the late 70s and into the 80s. They absolutely hated that the 928 was a superior car to the 911 vintage. Advanced patented Weissach rear axle design, plastic molded bumper covers, hideaway headlights, 50-50 weight dist, all with AC, power windows, power seats, and some had auto trans! The hate-fest was wide and long from the 911 fashionistas. It was one thing to have a 924, semi VW, bastard child with a crest, but a V8 supercar! Blasphemy. harumpf, harumpf.

The 928 was a nightmare of relays, and it was ugly. We called it a Pacer Sport. No mechanic liked a 928 unless they had a pregnant wife and a new boat and it belonged to a rich customer. Huge PITA.

I wish I could have a newer water cooled engine in the old 911 body. I just liked the way they looked, very understated for what they could do. I'm not a Porsche purist by any means, I'm not even particularly a fan. I will admit I enjoyed winding out a C-4, but when I got out of the throttle my girlfriend was on my bumper in the MacLaren SLR. Porsches are far down on my list of cars I'd buy at any price point with the exception of an older 911 in the sub $10k.

 

[docmirror]

Porsche came close to discontinuing the air cooled car.

Um - well, I hate to be the one to tell you, but the 993, discontinued in 1997 was the last air cooled car from Porsche. Some 18-ish years ago.