*NA* Roadster recommendations

[weilke]

In the early 2000s, I owned a first model year Miata ('91 MY iirc) for a couple of months. My sister in law had gotten it for free from a friend and I kept it in my name until I had it fixed up and she had enough of a driving history to purchase insurance. When I got the car, AC Blower, window washer, window wiper were not working and it made horrible crunching noises every time you rode over a bump in the road. The electrical nicknack was easy enough to replace with parts from the local NAPA, turned out to be stock Ford parts. The crunchy noise turned out to be a broken sway-bar link. Mazda didn't carry the part and I ended up replacing the sway-bar with junkyard parts from a later generation model and put new struts in. Once it was fixed (all at a cost less than 3 months payments on a new car), it was a fun little toy. Very lightweight, cornered well, good fuel economy. SIL drove it for a couple of years with little maintenance needed.



Roadster, less than 15k, I would look for a Miata 6-speed stick-shift, late 2000s. Spend a couple of $$ on suspension/tires or performance if that's your thing.

 

[Jimmy cooper]

Um - well, I hate to be the one to tell you, but the 993, discontinued in 1997 was the last air cooled car from Porsche. Some 18-ish years ago.

I hate to be the one to tell YOU! they almost decided to discontinue the car altogether! I'm well aware of the cars history.Ive owned four. How about you? Remember it started life as a variation on a theme by VW. Very low horse power in the first models and as the horsepower grew so did the problems. My nephew had a 99 , the first year of the water cooled. It was a straight 911. It had many problems.

 

[James331]

Knock offs are nice, I will admit, but for the cost and availability, I wouldn't make them a requirement.

Moss and Victoria has everything you'd ever need for them, availability isn't a issue and the cost isn't really that different from the 4 lug, as far as parts and different wheel options go.


I'd get a 69' or earlier MGB, turns way more heads, and holds it's value big time.

 

[Henning]

Moss and Victoria has everything you'd ever need for them, availability isn't a issue and the cost isn't really that different from the 4 lug, as far as parts and different wheel options go.


I'd get a 69' or earlier MGB, turns way more heads, and holds it's value big time.

Exactly, if I want them, as can add them new. I don't need to limit my purchase options to only those already equipped. If there was a nice one with 4 bolt hubs and steel wheels for the right price, I would buy it and put the discs and knockoffs on myself, no problem.

 

[Chip Sylverne]

The 928 was a nightmare of relays, and it was ugly. We called it a Pacer Sport. No mechanic liked a 928 unless they had a pregnant wife and a new boat and it belonged to a rich customer. Huge PITA.
.

And what's worse, it sounded just like a Pontiac 389.

I had a 914-6 for a while. That was a nice car.

 

[kgruber]

The 928 was introduced at a time when the Corvette was starting to exceed Porsche in every performance and maintenance category.

It was Porsche's unsuccessful attempt to copy Chevrolet. Rear drive front V8.

 

[mtuomi]

Saab of that age used normal Mitsubishi TD04 series turbos, you will find same stuff in Volvos and some jap stuff too.

Not a bitter Saab fan, I just know alot of people who used to work there at engine/powertrain R&D
Saab was a niche car maker with the best powertrain people in the world. The problem was, that they kept making cars - something they weren't very good at. Like I said, they should've been dealing with the powertrain development for the whole GM range, instead of ending up bankrupt by insisting on building cars no-one wanted to buy. Had GM realised what they were buying, they would've gotten much more out of the deal. Now they killed only thing that was valuable there and kept the thing that lost money. Not very well planned on GMs behalf.

Bit like buying Apple, killing their IOS and software development and using the hardware running Android.

Pre-GM Saab was the definition of high performance high reliability family car. Then came GM, destroyed what made them good the rest is history (this was mid-90's, most Saabs US market has is this post-GM crap)

Pre-GM they didn't have "an idea here and there", they invented the internal wastegate, knock control and electronic boost control, they had the first practical application of ion current knock control for IC engine, they had a working prototype of variable compression ratio IC engine etc etc.

Then came GM, killed all that, and still let them build cars with chassis and drivetrain from Opel. No wonder they went bust.

Again - I don't think they should've been building cars, they should've been developing engine technology for others.

I have no idea, but I do know the twin scroll turbo used on the Solstice GXP/Sky Redline is directly lifted from SAAB.

Oh ho ho!! A bitter SAAB fan I see. Truth is, SAAB was a niche car maker that was failing long before GM ever got there. All GM really got out of the deal was a deficit on their balance sheet. Bad purchase decision on their part. For the sake of both companies they should have left SAAB to go on their own or have somebody else take them on.

As to the R&D power house... I don't know about that. They may have had some idea here and there, but clearly not enough to save their own brand and expand market share. As far as I can tell, SAAB has been an unique odd ball European brand with mediocre reliability and mediocre performance just like most of the world, but at a slightly higher cost. Kind of like a Nordic Citroen.

 

[docmirror]

How about you?

Lost count. Way over 4 though.

 

[Tom-D]

You could do one of these.

http://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/dealer/ac/cobra/1678410.html

 

[Tom-D]

or one of these (fun stuff).

http://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/dealer/ford/model-a/1727019.html

 

[Tom-D]

Of course if you have any class, you'd get this

http://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/cars-for-sale/cord/810/1704758.html

 

[Henning]

Saab of that age used normal Mitsubishi TD04 series turbos, you will find same stuff in Volvos and some jap stuff too.

Not a bitter Saab fan, I just know alot of people who used to work there at engine/powertrain R&D
Saab was a niche car maker with the best powertrain people in the world. The problem was, that they kept making cars - something they weren't very good at. Like I said, they should've been dealing with the powertrain development for the whole GM range, instead of ending up bankrupt by insisting on building cars no-one wanted to buy. Had GM realised what they were buying, they would've gotten much more out of the deal. Now they killed only thing that was valuable there and kept the thing that lost money. Not very well planned on GMs behalf.

Bit like buying Apple, killing their IOS and software development and using the hardware running Android.

Pre-GM Saab was the definition of high performance high reliability family car. Then came GM, destroyed what made them good the rest is history (this was mid-90's, most Saabs US market has is this post-GM crap)

Pre-GM they didn't have "an idea here and there", they invented the internal wastegate, knock control and electronic boost control, they had the first practical application of ion current knock control for IC engine, they had a working prototype of variable compression ratio IC engine etc etc.

Then came GM, killed all that, and still let them build cars with chassis and drivetrain from Opel. No wonder they went bust.

Again - I don't think they should've been building cars, they should've been developing engine technology for others.

Sorry, I had a couple of Saabs, they were nothing special, and the key position is a real pain in the wrist with right hand drive.

 

[docmirror]

Of course if you have any class, you'd get this

http://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/cars-for-sale/cord/810/1704758.html

The Phaeton is not actually a roadster as it has a rear seat. However Cord did make a shorter version called the Sportsman without a back seat.

Be careful of the pre-selector trans system. It requires careful setup and use.

BTW, that's a heck of a bargain at $125k.

 

[Jimmy cooper]

Sorry, I had a couple of Saabs, they were nothing special, and the key position is a real pain in the wrist with right hand drive.

I never owned one but two airline pilots I knew tried one on and they were truly terrible cars. The reliability was about as good as an MG or a healey. Just terrible. I don't recall anytime that they were any good. Most people could not figure this out as they built supposedly good aircraft, which is why these pilots bought them, way before GM was involved. Important to remember that GM was responsible for many lousy cars including the gas engine they tried to diesel which was a disaster. My wife's 79 caddy which was good looking but had a dismal GM
Version of fuel injection that was a real bummer, ( even the dealer could not fix it correctly) and the corvette that was so good looking in the mid sixtys that they managed to ruin a few years later. On and on.

 

[Jimmy cooper]

Lost count. Way over 4 though.

Yes, you and henning together probably had twenty or thirty!

 

[Henning]

The Phaeton is not actually a roadster as it has a rear seat. However Cord did make a shorter version called the Sportsman without a back seat.

Be careful of the pre-selector trans system. It requires careful setup and use.

BTW, that's a heck of a bargain at $125k.

That is an interesting deal.

 

[docmirror]

Yes, you and henning together probably had twenty or thirty!

I don't know, I generally don't see his posts. I'm well over 10, have three right now, but this thread isn't about me, or the Porsche marque so give it a rest why doncha.

 

[Jimmy cooper]

The 928 was introduced at a time when the Corvette was starting to exceed Porsche in every performance and maintenance category.

It was Porsche's unsuccessful attempt to copy Chevrolet. Rear drive front V8.

Why would porsche try to copy corvette?! they were never in the same class on the highway or on the track. The corvette is a straight line high horsepower car. It never really competed on the track with a porsche and the current showroom high end porsche turbo will eat a corvette alive either on the track or off.

 

[mtuomi]

I never owned one but two airline pilots I knew tried one on and they were truly terrible cars. The reliability was about as good as an MG or a healey. Just terrible. I don't recall anytime that they were any good. Most people could not figure this out as they built supposedly good aircraft, which is why these pilots bought them, way before GM was involved. Important to remember that GM was responsible for many lousy cars including the gas engine they tried to diesel which was a disaster. My wife's 79 caddy which was good looking but had a dismal GM
Version of fuel injection that was a real bummer, ( even the dealer could not fix it correctly) and the corvette that was so good looking in the mid sixtys that they managed to ruin a few years later. On and on.

Hahaa, the 5.7DX engine. I love how one of the GM big wigs said "They said you can't turn a gasoline engine into a diesel engine - we proved them wrong". Little did they know

I've done alot of wrenching around old Saabs, the old 900 and first-run 9000 were good cars mechanically. 9000 suffered from a few oddities because it was part of the Tipo4 project, but enginewise they were great. The Saab H-engine was crazy. Stock engine can happily support 600hp without opening it. 300hp/liter in 1984 was pretty much crazytown thinking.

But again - their strength wasn't in building cars, it was in powerdrive development. Too bad it ended badly for them.

 

[Henning]

Yes, you and henning together probably had twenty or thirty!

Porsches? Had some to resale over the years that I had to work on, but no drivers.

 

[jhausch]

I've often felt that the Manx dunebuggies....
.....It was however, inferior in creature comforts (no heater, radio, or sound insulation) to a Lotus 7, something worth noting if that sort of stuff matters to you.

Calling a 7 superior in creature comforts really paints a picture. I always thought a 7 was about as primitive as one could get for that era.....

 

[Anthony]

Calling a 7 superior in creature comforts really paints a picture. I always thought a 7 was about as primitive as one could get for that era.....

I always liked the Super 7, and thought aobut getting a kit now and then, but rather have a Cobra.

 

[SCCutler]

Of course if you have any class, you'd get this

http://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/cars-for-sale/cord/810/1704758.html

I have always, and I mean always, loved the Cords!

The Phaeton is not actually a roadster as it has a rear seat. However Cord did make a shorter version called the Sportsman without a back seat.

Be careful of the pre-selector trans system. It requires careful setup and use.

BTW, that's a heck of a bargain at $125k.

Never knew, bet you do - How does the preselector work - solenoids or motors? My Dad described to me driving Cords, said the shifter was jewel-like to work.

Hahaa, the 5.7DX engine. I love how one of the GM big wigs said "They said you can't turn a gasoline engine into a diesel engine - we proved them wrong". Little did they know

I almost went to work for a Caddy dealer back in the mid-80s; there was a big, honkin' stack of oil-dripping crates out back, all replaced 5.7L diesel engines. Service Director (who would have been my boss) told me that their policy was, if a customer's diesel failed, they replaced the engine, period. As he put it, "We can save money today and lose customers for life. That's no way to run a business, and we sell enough cars that GM won't argue with us." They even had a guy tasked with calling customers to whom they had sold diesel-powered Cadillacs to make sure that they were satisfied with how the vehicle was performing, and where they got "no" for an answer, they either replaced the engine, or inked a screamer of a deal on a replacement, gas-powered car.

They also refused to sell the diesel cars on their used lot.

It was at the dealer level, but that dealer is thriving still.

I've done alot of wrenching around old Saabs, the old 900 and first-run 9000 were good cars mechanically. 9000 suffered from a few oddities because it was part of the Tipo4 project, but enginewise they were great. The Saab H-engine was crazy. Stock engine can happily support 600hp without opening it. 300hp/liter in 1984 was pretty much crazytown thinking.

But again - their strength wasn't in building cars, it was in powerdrive development. Too bad it ended badly for them.

Other than rebadging Subarus and Chevrolets as Saabs, GM did nothing "bad" to Saab other than extend its life as an automobile manufacturer longer than it should have been. Wasted money.

As noted, some really interesting engineering, but their core business was destined to fail.

 

[docmirror]

I have always, and I mean always, loved the Cords!



Never knew, bet you do - How does the preselector work - solenoids or motors? My Dad described to me driving Cords, said the shifter was jewel-like to work.

I'll work backwards from the trans. There are two shift levers, such as you would find on an old tractor trans. The fore-aft lever, and the crossbeam lever. Attached to each lever is a clevis with an arm, and the arm goes into a bi-chambered vacuum actuated diaphragm(pull or push depending on the vac applied to the membrane side). The vacuum supply comes from the manifold via a set of solenoids mounted on a rail with a common manifold, and the distribution from the four solenoids leading to each side of the two actuators.

Power is applied to all solenoid wires on one side of the coil, and the other side of the solenoid coil goes up to the pre-selector on the side of the steering column, much like a wiper stalk on a modern car. The pre-selector has a little arm that rotates on a spindle and the switch contact wipers are inside a small box for R, 1, 2, 3 and 4 gears. These are the ground signals for the various combinations of vacuum diaphragm actuators. The gear is selected with the little arm, and the signal then goes to a normally open interrupter switch which is at the bottom of the clutch throw, so that it can only be grounded when the clutch is depressed.

In operation, the car is started only when the clutch is depressed as the interrupter switch also activates the bendix for the starter. Once the car is running with the clutch in, any gear may be selected on the pre-selector. The clutch switch is closed now, so the solenoid(s) are grounded thus opening or closing specific chambers. From memory, in 1st gear, the crossbeam goes to the left, and the fore/aft goes fully forward. Now, the clutch is released and the car moves forward. The pre-selector arm is now moved to 2nd gear at any time, and when the driver depresses the clutch, the ground contact is made, the vac solenoid actuates and the vac is applied to the chamber, thus moving the fore/aft arm rearward and into second gear. The clutch is released, and accelerated and the driver pre-selects 3rd gear at any time. Clutch in, elec contacts closed, vac delivered and shift made.

Getting it all to work in smooth operation is about a 3 day job. Even the tiniest vac leaks in a diaphragm or hose are fatal. The Lycoming V8 engine could also be ordered with a supercharger for added HP, and the manifold vacuum leaks would cause the engine to run way lean at high speed, thus blowing up many pistons simply because a hose came off the shifter.

It was not an 'elegant' solution to the idea of an 'auto' trans, as it were....

<edit: look at the picture of the phaeton again. Look closely at the beautiful horz louvered grill. The bottom grill strake is bowed in the very center by that long cover that sticks out the front, and there is a small Cord crest on that center hump. The long slender cover is over the front trans, and the bump in the cover is where the fore/aft arm and lever are located. Back in the day, many or most Cords ran around with that cover in the back seat because the shifter required adjustment almost every week. The grill asm has to come off to get the trans cover off, and after the 5th time, most owners just left the trans cover off, and the grill on.>

 

[James331]

Exactly, if I want them, as can add them new. I don't need to limit my purchase options to only those already equipped. If there was a nice one with 4 bolt hubs and steel wheels for the right price, I would buy it and put the discs and knockoffs on myself, no problem.

Except the car is worth significantly less, it's like putting a 427 into a 350 Vette, end of the day it will never be a 427 Vette mearly a 350 with a 427 in it.

 

[Henning]

Except the car is worth significantly less, it's like putting a 427 into a 350 Vette, end of the day it will never be a 427 Vette mearly a 350 with a 427 in it.

I never worry about crap like that, buy it right, sell it right is all that matters, you can make money on them regardless; and I just can't spend airplane level money on a car. I haven't bought an MG since you could buy nice ones for $2500.

 

[kgruber]

Except the car is worth significantly less, it's like putting a 427 into a 350 Vette, end of the day it will never be a 427 Vette mearly a 350 with a 427 in it.

The small block Corvette was always a MUCH nicer Corvette to drive. I've had several of both. Here is a 67' 350hp 327, ordered new in 1967, from Phil Fields Chevytown.



Never saw an advantage to the "427." Heavy feel, not much faster, and about 1/2 the gas milage. Ugly hood!

My mother was an angel!

 

[SoonerAviator]

The small block Corvette was always a MUCH nicer Corvette to drive. I've had several of both. Here is a 67' 350hp 327, ordered new in 1967, from Phil Fields Chevytown.



Never saw an advantage to the "427." Heavy feel, not much faster, and about 1/2 the gas milage. Ugly hood!!

Lol, the Stinger hood was ugly?! I have driven both a lot, but the sound of the 427 is worth it. Don't get me wrong, the 365HP/327 and 4 speed is a joy to drive, but a 427 with side pipes is just that extra little bit of flair. The 390HP/427 wasn't geared well for city driving, 0-60 runs, etc, but it's a great cruiser. Also, you may get the jump on a BB early on with a 327, but you better not let off the go-pedal because that BB will be catching up in a hurry with all of that torque.

Can't go wrong with either one, and Stinger hood or not, the C2 Corvettes are just plain sexy. Never went anywhere without having someone gawking or wanting to ask questions/take pictures of the '65 327 or the '67 427.

 

[Dav8or]

Why would porsche try to copy corvette?! they were never in the same class on the highway or on the track. The corvette is a straight line high horsepower car. It never really competed on the track with a porsche and the current showroom high end porsche turbo will eat a corvette alive either on the track or off.

This post shows you know nothing about Corvettes, or cars in general. You have seen the cover of a R&T magazine once though...

 

[Henning]

Lol, the Stinger hood was ugly?! I have driven both a lot, but the sound of the 427 is worth it. Don't get me wrong, the 365HP/327 and 4 speed is a joy to drive, but a 427 with side pipes is just that extra little bit of flair. The 390HP/427 wasn't geared well for city driving, 0-60 runs, etc, but it's a great cruiser. Also, you may get the jump on a BB early on with a 327, but you better not let off the go-pedal because that BB will be catching up in a hurry with all of that torque.

Can't go wrong with either one, and Stinger hood or not, the C2 Corvettes are just plain sexy. Never went anywhere without having someone gawking or wanting to ask questions/take pictures of the '65 327 or the '67 427.

The thing about the 427, in order to make it run right, you needed fuel injection, or a poor plenum design intake, due to the differences in intake runner lengths in the heads. Some guys did staggered tube toppers on a dual quad high rise, but most of the time with carb(s) you ended up staggering the heat range of the plug to somewhat compensate for the effects. Put a Crower injector on it and it's a remarkable engine, especially the ZL-1, and you have a formidable racing package.

The Arias hemi heads were pretty cool on them as well.

 

[John221us]

If you're willing to consider MGs (and that's a bold move), you might also look at the Fiat 124 / Pininfarina Spyders. Nice little buggies, as long as you know how to clean the contacts in a fusebox (dissimilar metal corrosion).

Or a Triumph TR-6?

But really, an S2000 would be nice.

And don't forget the amazingly-good Pontiac Saturn Sky / Pontiac Solstice, great little roadsters killed by corporate ineptness.

I have a 1981 Fiat Spider 2000 (124). A good example can be had for less than half your budget and they are fun cars. As mentioned, it is a Pininfarina design. This is my second one (I had a '79 back when I was 25). They are reliable cars, despite the jokes about Fiat. They only thing I ever had to do to my '79 in the three three years I had it was replace a water pump (it was my main driver back then, in So Cal) and my current '81 (I have also had it for 3 years) has only needed a starter (and a few cosmetic things).

 

[SoonerAviator]

This post shows you know nothing about Corvettes, or cars in general. You have seen the cover of a R&T magazine once though...

I thought about posting the same thing. The top end Corvette Z06 and the top end Porsche 911 Turbo S (we'll ignore the 918 Spyder) are about as close to even in performance as it gets. The difference? Corvette costs $115K and the Porsche around $185K.

 

[James331]

This post shows you know nothing about Corvettes, or cars in general. You have seen the cover of a R&T magazine once though...

That.

As a C6 owner, the cars can more than hold their own in the corners

 

[EdFred]

This post shows you know nothing about Corvettes, or cars in general. You have seen the cover of a R&T magazine once though...

Keep in mind this is the same guy that claimed airplane engines run at extreme RPMs compared to car engines. A chimp suffering from trisomy displays better knowledge.

 

[Silvaire]

Keep in mind this is the same guy that claimed airplane engines run at extreme RPMs compared to car engines...

Well actually they do. When is the last time you drove your car with the accelerator floored for two or three hours straight?

 

[Henning]

Well actually they do. When is the last time you drove your car with the accelerator floored for two or three hours straight?

No, that's extreme ICP, not RPM. That's why airplane engines have a tougher life.

 

[FastEddieB]

From the sublime to the ridiculous...


...a reimagined 21st century Morgan?

A Polaris Slingshot - around $20k new.

 

[Henning]

I liked the Morgans, that, I'm not so sure...

 

[olasek]

Target is ~$15K. Looking for experiences with:

I purchased my lovely BMW 2001 Z3 roadster for about $14000, this isn't "M" but has plenty of power - 3.0L engine, lots of torque. In great condition, it had about 48,000 miles when I got it. It is a head-turning car because of its unusual siena-red color.

 

[Unbeliever]

I bought my 2006 S2000 used in 2009. On a whim, I just looked up the value of my 2006 left in "stock" condition. (Not riced out).

Holy cats! The cars are starting to appreciate again. Clean models on dealer lots are now going for a bit more than I paid for it back in 2006. Low mileage like mine are bumping up the price a bit.

KBB private party and trade-in numbers are also agreeing with the above.

However, any "performance" mods away from OEM drop the price big time.

That always makes me shake my head. Someone buys a $30K car, puts another $30K into it, and winds up with a $10K car.

--Carlos V.