Don't be a dick

poadeleted21

poadeleted21

Touchdown! Greaser!
Joined
Aug 18, 2011
Messages
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I took a coworker up for a flight, less than a week later he's at the FBO signed up for lessons. He's 25 hours in and comes to me today to ask about correct terminology when self announcing a turn to final. I'm wondering why, out of all the PPL course material, he's worrying about something this inconsequential. Apparently, someone called him a "moron" for announcing "left final" and proceed to give him a lesson on why there was no such thing as "left final" while he's trying to land as a 25 hour student pilot. He asked what I would have done and in the interest of being honest over giving good advice I said "I'd have told him to go **** himself and express his concerns on the ground since short final wasn't the place to have a terminology debate.
 
I've got a bottle of 21 year old Bushmills that I'd like to share with you, if we ever get a chance to meet.
I like how you operate.
 
Can't be sensitive in this business. It's full of egos.

When my CFI let me solo for the first time, the last thing he told me before shutting the door was "Don't F*ck up". And he meant it.
 
I have heard some stupid bickering on the radio. Pilots like to tell other pilots how to be pilots.

I heard 2 guys arguing about which was the calm wind runway at a local field. 2 Solid minutes it was "Well I have 800 logged landings at this field so I know what I am talking about" "Well I have been based here for 2 years and you are wrong"

I got on and said "Why don't you both just land and measure them on the ground? I have a radio call I need to make"
 
bartmc said:
I took a coworker up for a flight, less than a week later he's at the FBO signed up for lessons. He's 25 hours in and comes to me today to ask about correct terminology when self announcing a turn to final. I'm wondering why, out of all the PPL course material, he's worrying about something this inconsequential. Apparently, someone called him a "moron" for announcing "left final" and proceed to give him a lesson on why there was no such thing as "left final" while he's trying to land as a 25 hour student pilot. He asked what I would have done and in the interest of being honest over giving good advice I said "I'd have told him to go **** himself and express his concerns on the ground since short final wasn't the place to have a terminology debate.
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Have you seen the comments on this board? Many from seasoned pilots with acid tongues?

If there is one thing common on these threads it's the ego, arrogance, and know--it-all some reflect.

What's bad is how the ones that are like that are influencing the new pilots who may be taking tips from them...

Tell your friend next time someone lectures him on his radio calls to nod his head, walk away, and ignore the turd. There is something worse than making a bad radio call, and that's having some yo-yo correct others in the air as if they were making perfect calls themselves..
 
  1. Aircraft fleet values depend on demand.
  2. Pilot population in decline

To maintain the value of your investment we should jump all over anyone's ass who makes a simple mistake?


:confused:


When did flying become NASCAR?
 
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I announced left final too.

And I've been on the receiving end of smart-ass comments. THAT guy can really suck the fun out of a good day...don't be THAT guy
 
I ignore calls like that. If they want to talk on the ground fine but I never argue on the radio.
 
'Left final' needs to become part of the local airport vernacular. Use it, get a few others to play along. Stir that pot with a stick of dynamite.
 
bnt83 said:


  1. To maintain the value of your investment we should jump all over anyone's ass who makes a simple mistake?
Click to expand...


  1. No, of course not. But I have learned that one person's definition of "jump all over" may be different than another person's definition. The person receiving the comment from the more experienced pilot may have taken an innocent (possibly badly worded, with the wrong tone of voice) comment the wrong way.

    Happens all the time.
 
I don't know why some people have to try to convince other people that they are experts in whatever particular pursuit is being discussed. If I were your friend, I would have just ignored somebody being a jerk like that. No need to feed a starving ego. Why in the world would anyone want to argue with such a person?
 
I know I've either announced left final or at least started to before. Tends to happen when your forebrain is concentrating on flying the airplane and your hindbrain is working the radio.
 
bartmc said:
I took a coworker up for a flight, less than a week later he's at the FBO signed up for lessons.
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Wow, you're good! Congratulations on suckering recruiting another person into aviation!
 
Rather than argue over the radio,I like to let the other pilot rant,and just ignore them ,with silence.
 
Type A personalities and all that.

I'm ****ed at the guy who called him a moron, for sure. We need more people in this biz and that's not the way to get 'em and keep 'em. But you also have help your coworker understand that he needs to let that kind of stuff roll right off while simultaneously making the best of it by learning from it. Because the next time he gets embarrassed on the radio, it'll be a controller. And the controller will probably be right. And he'll need to accept it and learn from it. And if you feed a desire to be up-in-arms about it, he's likely to get flustered when it inevitably happens again.

I was mildly embarrassed by a controller at KFXE (Ft. Lauderdale Exec) on my check-out flight of my new club's plane last month. The new-to-me CFI asked if I wanted to head there after takeoff from KHWO (North Perry) to the south. I said sure. I'd never flown in South Florida so I was definitely feeling the work-load in a plane and type I'd never flown, with a GPS and comms I'd never used, and transitioning from KFLL's (Ft. Laud Int'l) tower frequency over to KFXE while turning westbound to head to the airport. I twice failed to repeat the pattern entry the controller wanted, and got the "right downwind SIR" line. It sucked, and I hated being mildly reprimanded next to a CFI I was trying to impress, but I sucked it up, admitted my error, and flew on.

The whole license to learn thing is about realizing you're doing it wrong, and taking steps to fix it. And I think that's a good mindset to instill in your coworker.
 
I'm glad I learned to fly at a club that has its own little strip and specializes in training.

The problem your coworker experienced is much more likely at an airport where jets land and nobody cares about you. What happens is that Piston Pete, the veteran bug smasher pilot with turbine envy, needs somebody to look down on, so he dumps on the lowly student pilot.

The student experience is much better someplace where you are all in a club together.
 
I heard a long time ago that you could toss a rock into a crowd of Pilots and hit a douche ever time. A Pilot told me that.

If you love flying enough, the dicks won't matter.
 
Yep- I have announced Left Final. Somehow all the plans didn't crash into each other and fall out of the sky. Imagine that.
 
I'm a "don't argue on the radio" guy. I can't stand inefficient chatter on the radio, so I try to avoid contributing to it.


JKG
 
Aviation needs to learn from organized religion. Years ago, I got involved in the evangelistic Christian church. We were taught to "witness" to non believers. To share our passion with people who may become believers. It was very serious and very effective.

Aviators need to do the same.
 
I would have keyed the mike every 10 seconds and work the words "left final" Or "left short final" or "left rollout" or "left clear of runway". Basically, the word left would be in every radio transmission I made until I shut down.

But - that's just me.
 
RalphInCA said:
Aviation needs to learn from organized religion. Years ago, I got involved in the evangelistic Christian church. We were taught to "witness" to non believers. To share our passion with people who may become believers. It was very serious and very effective.

Aviators need to do the same.
Click to expand...

So you gonna witness on the radio to the guy who doesn't talk right? Convert him on 122.8 to say "turning final" with none of that objectionable "left" stuff?

Or is the goal to track down the prideful Piston Pete who hassles students, witness to him at his hangar door, convince him that the AIM shows the true way, and lead him to righteousness and humility?

Or maybe a ground-based operation to convert unbelieving car drivers to give up their sinful driving-and-texting, and become proper FAA-fearing aviators?

I'm just trying to understand whom is the intended convertee in your plan.
 
Great share!!!!

I've got one more addition to the "Don't Be a Dick" thread, if you please. ;)
When taking people up for their first small airplane ride, STOP scaring the bejesus out of them trying to show off!! I don't care if they say it's ok, or not. Just go on a nice relaxing ride the first time!

I'm tired of seeing videos of pilots taking these poor people up and saying "they have a fear of flying" and then right out of the gate, doing a hard turn to show them a landmark and later laughing about the face they made... You suck! We want them to come back and fly more. :yesnod:

Ok, I feel better now. :) Oh and if y'all ever need me to pummel some guys head, it's the one thing I'm actually good at, so I'm happy to help. :) Plus I'm "Left" handed, so the irony would be real funny!
 
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Jim Logajan said:
Wow, you're good! Congratulations on suckering recruiting another person into aviation!
Click to expand...

I've notched 3 so far. With one more holding a gift certificate for an introductory flight after he passes his CPA.

Though I cheat a little. It seems that software developers are an easy target.
We seem to have less than an average number of wives and kids and above average discretionary income (I don't think that's a coincidence). I'm also guilty of handing out certificates for introductory flights as gifts to people who've expressed interest.

Also, I work with a lot of Indians. As a group they seem far far far more interested in general aviation than Americans. Perhaps because it's something available to them here that wasn't in India.
 
CTLSi said:
Have you seen the comments on this board? Many from seasoned pilots with acid tongues?

If there is one thing common on these threads it's the ego, arrogance, and know--it-all some reflect.
Click to expand...
It has nothing to do with ego and arrogance when they're correcting the constant blithering misinformation and false information that you post all the time.
 
I avoid ordering a drink when someone announces "Last Call" on UNICOM.

One time when we were hanging around in Friar Tucks after flying to Oshkosh and relating that we had to make a stop right after our initial takeoff to get a bug blown out of our pitot tube the guy on the next bar stool said that "He had an alternate on of those in his cockpit." Margy kicked me because she knew I was about to inquire how fast the air was moving inside his cockpit.
 
RalphInCA said:
Can't be sensitive in this business. It's full of egos.

When my CFI let me solo for the first time, the last thing he told me before shutting the door was "Don't F*ck up". And he meant it.
Click to expand...

LOL. Reminds of the guy that did my tw endorsement in the Luscombe. I had zero tw time but he had me sit on the left anyway with a "I don't have brakes on my side so don't f%ck up". Best CFI I ever flew with!
 
Student - the least of your problems is the opinion of some dick wad.
Grow a pair and just ignore him...
 
docmirror said:
I would have keyed the mike every 10 seconds and work the words "left final" Or "left short final" or "left rollout" or "left clear of runway". Basically, the word left would be in every radio transmission I made until I shut down.

But - that's just me.
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Please don't fly again. :lol:

;)
 
The word left describes the difference between flying a left hand or right hand pattern. It usually gets dropped off when there's only one choice.

Was flying somewhere the other day and heard "turning right final" as I was ready to turn left base, so I was really glad he had announced it that way.
 
NoHeat said:
So you gonna witness on the radio to the guy who doesn't talk right? Convert him on 122.8 to say "turning final" with none of that objectionable "left" stuff?

Or is the goal to track down the prideful Piston Pete who hassles students, witness to him at his hangar door, convince him that the AIM shows the true way, and lead him to righteousness and humility?

Or maybe a ground-based operation to convert unbelieving car drivers to give up their sinful driving-and-texting, and become proper FAA-fearing aviators?

I'm just trying to understand whom is the intended convertee in your plan.
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OK. Perhaps it wasn't such a great idea. :redface:

My initial (obviously not well thought through) idea was to use the passion we have as pilots in a way that has worked in another passion filled organization - the evangelistic church.

But I see now, upon further reflection, that we don't really want to "capture people into" aviation like the church does.

Perhaps another church term applies here? Discipleship? :dunno:
 
As a low time student myself, 20 hours, I would have probably just said nothing until I got on the ground. THEN, I would invite Mr. Hoover to see me at the FBO if he was interested in continuing his radio lesson. He would certainly leave dissatisfied with his student.
 
RalphInCA said:
Perhaps another church term applies here? Discipleship? :dunno:
Click to expand...

AOPA and others have adopted the concept of mentoring....same concept.

I've had students use "Left Final"....I just smile, realizing its a fairly easy error since I encourage use of "Left Crosswind", "Left Downwind", etc. Our closest uncontrolled field uses left traffic for 30, and right traffic for 12, so adding the pattern side aids awareness. You can argue hearing "Left Final" would let me know the pattern side he flew....but I teach just "Final, 30"
 
"You are breaking up, did you say you are an insufferable prick?"
 
I've got a hunch that the guy that was complaining on the radio is just ticked about his short penis. Radio calls are for safety, do them. Even if the poor student says it like "left final" at least we other guys in the pattern know where he is as we chuckle a bit. The student will learn. I've laughed more than once at seasoned pilots, some professionals, get into arguments on the radio. Really - that's professional?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Off topic, but the title reminded me of a t-shirt I bought a few years ago i Ft. Meyers:

The front said:
See Dick Drink
See Dick Drive
See Dick Die

The back said:
Don't be a Dick.

bartmc said:
I took a coworker up for a flight, less than a week later he's at the FBO signed up for lessons. He's 25 hours in and comes to me today to ask about correct terminology when self announcing a turn to final. I'm wondering why, out of all the PPL course material, he's worrying about something this inconsequential. Apparently, someone called him a "moron" for announcing "left final" and proceed to give him a lesson on why there was no such thing as "left final" while he's trying to land as a 25 hour student pilot. He asked what I would have done and in the interest of being honest over giving good advice I said "I'd have told him to go **** himself and express his concerns on the ground since short final wasn't the place to have a terminology debate.
Click to expand...
 
Let me play devil's (dick's?) advocate for a moment.

Flight instructors are primed to look for errors. From small to large, it takes up a lot of their time and attention, and is a large part of what they're being paid to do.

So its almost a reflex to point out errors.

But they do need to be couched so as to not always appear negative and nitpicky.

For instance, "Very nice landing! MUCH better!!! Still, you had a little more back stick to go and you let the plane drift left just a tad right at the end. But really good job - let's try another!"

Similarly, this correction of "left final" might have been almost automatic. I don't think I would have jumped on the air to say anything, but later in conversation I might have mentioned it if I came into contact with the pilot - solely for his edification.

"By the way, good job out there in the pattern today! But technically, final isn't left or right, so that sounds a bit funny."

But bear in mind, I might just be a dick!
 
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