Aircraft unresponsive and heading out to sea

Every pressurized airplane I have owned had a RED "cabin altitude" light that comes on when the cabin altitude exceeds a certain value, 10,000 to 12,000 feet. A rapid decompression would I am sure be shocking to the body, but with quick donning masks right behind the pilot's seat in most airplanes, it shouldn't be life threatening. Shouldn't is the key word.
Was the guy alone? If not you'd think someone from the cabin would do something if it was a medical problem with the pilot. :dunno:
Tex_Mike said:
I ask these questions out of complete ignorance of 02 systems and the effects of rapid decompression on the human body-

If you have a rapid decompression does the air get sucked out of your lungs? If not I would think that a pilot would have time to react by putting on an 02 mask.

If the leak is slow I could see where a pilot not monitoring their 02 level could gradually fade away. Is cabin 02 monitoring in these types of planes not SOP. How about monitoring ones own 02 levels?
Click to expand...
 
Tex_Mike said:
I ask these questions out of complete ignorance of 02 systems and the effects of rapid decompression on the human body-

If you have a rapid decompression does the air get sucked out of your lungs? If not I would think that a pilot would have time to react by putting on an 02 mask.

If the leak is slow I could see where a pilot not monitoring their 02 level could gradually fade away. Is cabin 02 monitoring in these types of planes not SOP. How about monitoring ones own 02 levels?
Click to expand...

You have time to put on the quick donning type mask as you have on airliners. I would suspect a TBM-900 would be so equipped.
 
I would like to think the cabin press monitoring would alert the pilot to a slow loss of pressure. And the pilot could appropriately react with plenty of time.

If it was a sudden dump, the pilot would need to react quickly with oxygen or it's over. That time is measured on a scale of seconds, not minutes. 30-45 seconds maybe. If the oxygen was not readily available, turned off, or he was a clutz about it, bye bye.
 
Watched a show about the missing Malaysian airline last night and they said the pilots have seconds to don their masks if they have sudden decompress at cruise.
 
Pedals2Paddles said:
I would like to think the cabin press monitoring would alert the pilot to a slow loss of pressure. And the pilot could appropriately react with plenty of time.

If it was a sudden dump, the pilot would need to react quickly with oxygen or it's over. That time is measured on a scale of seconds, not minutes. 30-45 seconds maybe. If the oxygen was not readily available, turned off, or he was a clutz about it, bye bye.
Click to expand...

At 25K I am thinking a 3-5 minutes according to this info.

http://www.theairlinepilots.com/forumarchive/aeromedical/decompressionandhypoxia.php

Also, the cabin fogging up would be a good indicator.

Seems like with that kind of time you would immediately dial 10K or something low enough to regain your senses and let the AP fly it down.
 
txflyer said:
Watched a show about the missing Malaysian airline last night and they said the pilots have seconds to don their masks if they have sudden decompress at cruise.
Click to expand...

Sure, that's true, when you're up around FL350. Big difference between FL280 and FL350 though
 
The Payne Stewart accident - wasn't a problems found after the crash that the O2 to the masks hadn't been turned on during preflight?
 
Somebody in my office just said this plane crashed in Jamaica.
 
Pedals2Paddles said:
I would like to think the cabin press monitoring would alert the pilot to a slow loss of pressure. And the pilot could appropriately react with plenty of time.

If it was a sudden dump, the pilot would need to react quickly with oxygen or it's over. That time is measured on a scale of seconds, not minutes. 30-45 seconds maybe. If the oxygen was not readily available, turned off, or he was a clutz about it, bye bye.
Click to expand...

It depends on altitude. At turboprop altitudes, could be a few minutes, at jet altitudes, it's in the seconds.
 
colojo said:
This was posted on the Red Board. Pilot knew he had a problem and had to get down, but ATC couldn't get him down quickly enough. It's sad to hear his lucidity drop with every transmission.

Relevant portion begins at about 4:10. Around 8:30 he's clearly out of it.

http://archive-server.liveatc.net/kg...2014-1400Z.mp3
Click to expand...

Guys, please, DECLARE AN EMERGENCY if a problem exits even a "small one" which can grow into something sadly, resulting in a fatality.

Your wife, kids, and family would rather you "do extra paperwork" over an Emergency than attend a funeral
 
Henning said:
Dead link, did he declare an emergency? He's passing out and ATC can't get him down? WTF:dunno::confused::dunno:
Click to expand...

It works for me, and I hear no emergency call... though with six frequencies monitored, that could have occurred off the LiveATC feed.

Just theorizing, perhaps the pilot may have already been affected by hypoxia, aware enough to know (and report) there's a problem but perhaps not cognizant to the severity and urgency of it?
 
Last edited:
Do what you need to first, tell ATC later.

Very sad... :(
 
Henning said:
Dead link, did he declare an emergency? He's passing out and ATC can't get him down? WTF:dunno::confused::dunno:
Click to expand...

He didn't declare, but in hindsight it's clear that he should have.

Try the link again. I had to tweak it a couple times to get it to work.
 
Henning said:
Dead link, did he declare an emergency? He's passing out and ATC can't get him down? WTF:dunno::confused::dunno:
Click to expand...

I heard him say he needed to descend to 18k that something was wrong with the plane, he was told to stand by, then to maintain 25k. He said again that he needed to descend and the controller told him he was working on it...... this is sad.....
 
colojo said:
He didn't declare, but in hindsight it's clear that he should have.

Try the link again. I had to tweak it a couple times to get it to work.
Click to expand...

Now it works, but I haven't got the bandwidth for 31 minutes. Another pilot down to bad decision making...
 
sounds like he got clearance to descend to FL 200 6 minutes later or 6 minutes too late.......
 
Yes he was cleared to FL200 which he acknowledged but clearly didn't do it. He was give that clearance again and he acknowledged again. Poor bastard. Obviously out of it. :(
 
PaulS said:
I heard him say he needed to descend to 18k that something was wrong with the plane, he was told to stand by, then to maintain 25k. He said again that he needed to descend and the controller told him he was working on it...... this is sad.....
Click to expand...

It is sad, one word was all that was required, "Unable".
 
He asked to go to FL180 which is still not safe if he had lost cabin pressure. He didn't say what the problem was. It seems likely it was lost of cabin pressure especially if the windows were frosted over.
 
I wonder why he initially requested FL180 rather than 12,000'? I'm guessing he had supplemental oxygen but maybe only cannulas? I have no idea how these planes are equipped WRT O2.
 
No words were required.

Altitude preselect to 4k, go down. Squawk 7700 if you have the energy, then don't talk. Try to stay awake, explain yourself later. Should don the masks, but clearly something didn't work there.
 
Lord Muck said:
He asked to go to FL180 which is still not safe if he had lost cabin pressure. He didn't say what the problem was. It seems likely it was lost of cabin pressure especially if the windows were frosted over.
Click to expand...

You don't necessarily lose all the pressure, if he could still hold 4psi, FL180 would be ok.
 
Yep. Or simply say "declaring an emergency, we are descending"
 
Ted DuPuis said:
No words were required.

Altitude preselect to 4k, go down. Squawk 7700 if you have the energy, then don't talk. Try to stay awake, explain yourself later. Should don the masks, but clearly something didn't work there.
Click to expand...

Yep, kinda wondering if he was already half hypoxic when he noticed as none of his decision making seemed appropriate, especially for a person with a lot of time in pressurized planes.
 
Henning said:
You don't necessarily lose all the pressure, if he could still hold 4psi, FL180 would be ok.
Click to expand...

Call me chicken but I wouldn't take that chance. I'd go down to where I can breathe in case it lets go completely.

"Center, N123 has lost cabin pressure and is doing an emergency descent to 12,000"
 
Ted DuPuis said:
No words were required.

Altitude preselect to 4k, go down. Squawk 7700 if you have the energy, then don't talk. Try to stay awake, explain yourself later. Should don the masks, but clearly something didn't work there.
Click to expand...
I would go on O2
Disc AP, start steep descent
Declare Emergency decent to 12000, tell ATC I'll accept any heading, if on a airway I might make slight turn off airway at start.
I wonder what the POH procedure is?
I thought at least 1 pilot has to have mask at the ready at all times, and if only 1 pilot at controls, then must go on O2?
 
Last edited:
Lord Muck said:
Call me chicken but I wouldn't take that chance. I'd go down to where I can breathe in case it lets go completely.

"Center, N123 has lost cabin pressure and is doing an emergency descent to 12,000"
Click to expand...

I don't disagree, even minor hypoxia though can cost you that presence of mind, and personally I'd want to get to 10,000' or below.
 
Guys, the 3-5 minutes is "at rest" best case. Explosive or sudden decompression while piloting an aircraft is not at rest. The figures for those scenarios are less than half the normal at rest time.
 
"take aways"

Had he told ATC he was "Declaring an Emergency and needed lower such as 12,000

....he would be alive and a family would not be missing a father, grandpa, etc

Thats it folks. This is not a mid-air, a engine failure, a sudden weather system, etc. If the pilot had done the above, in addition to understand the need to get below 15,000, he would be alive.

Sad.
 
teejayevans said:
I would go on O2
Disc AP, start steep descent
Declare Emergency decent to 12000, tell ATC I'll accept any heading, if on a airway I might make slight turn off airway at start.
I wonder what the POH procedure is?
I thought at least 1 pilot has to have mask at the ready at all times, and if only 1 pilot at controls, then must go on O2?
Click to expand...

I downloaded the TBM900 POH and the emergency procedures for loss of cabin pressure and use of supplemental oxygen are next to useless. I didn't learn anything.
 
Very sad all around.

Maybe it's just my joining up here and reading about every one, but damn it sure seems like this has been a tough season for mishaps.

And we were ~400 yards from a death at OSH no less.
 
B350ATP said:
"take aways"

Had he told ATC he was "Declaring an Emergency and needed lower such as 12,000

....he would be alive and a family would not be missing a father, grandpa, etc.
Click to expand...
Please explain how telling someone hundreds of miles away what you need does anything to execute what you need. FYI, air traffic control does not have a joystick to remote control your plane.
 
teejayevans said:
I would go on O2
Disc AP, start steep descent
Declare Emergency decent to 12000, tell ATC I'll accept any heading, if on a airway I might make slight turn off airway at start.
I wonder what the POH procedure is?
I thought at least 1 pilot has to have mask at the ready at all times, and if only 1 pilot at controls, then must go on O2?
Click to expand...

No, do not disconnect A/P, like Ted said, set the altitude for for a breathable level and let the AP handle the descent, that way if you go unconscious the plane will level out at a good altitude for you to recover. No A/P would likely end up in a high speed spiral that you most likely wouldn't be able to recover.
 
Better to let the AP do the descent. Then if you pass out, altitude preselect will kick in.

If you don't have altitude preselect (say in the 310 I fly), still better - the AP will at least keep the wings level.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top