Instructor Screening for New Student

[MDflyer]

Hello All!

First post and am am excited to undertake my PPL. I have no experience but I have the cash, a lot of passion and the time (a bad mix in some circles ;-)

My question is this: As a new student, what should I look for in interviewing instructors? What questions, experience, costs, etc?

What are some red flags?

Thanks!
MDflyer

 

[AggieMike88]

Welcome to PoA!!!!

Do continue to post questions about and updates on your training!!!!

Where are you located? One of our existing members might have a recommendation for you, and be near enough to take you on a flight or two.

Some web pages for you to check out:

• http://www.m0a.com/choosing-a-flight-instructor/
• http://www.aopa.org/letsgoflying/ready/choose/howto.html
• http://www.pilottricks.com/how-to-choose-a-flight-instructor/
• http://www.flyingmag.com/training/learn-fly/flight-school-finding-right-instructor
• http://www.sportys.com/pdf/Flight-Instructor-Brochure.pdf

 

[Mike Smith]

You are miles ahead of most already because you have the two things that are most important on a practical level, time and money. Honestly, I asked around to a couple of pilot friends who gave me the same name, I called him up and haven't looked back. I really like my instructor. If you are going with an independent CFI, call the FBO and ask for the name of a couple or three of their instructors, call them up, pick one and go fly. Don't overthink it, but at the same time, remember that you will spend a lot of time in a cramped cockpit with your instructor. You had better enjoy the company or at least respect the instruction. Lastly, if you fly with one and it doesn't click, MOVE to another one. Its business and you are the customer, be happy with what you buy. Good luck and keep us posted on your progress. And welcome to POA!!

 

[AggieMike88]

Something else to cover while you're getting your ducks lined up at the hold short line...

Any medical issues that would create speed bumps in obtaining your 3rd class certificate?

Take a look at FAA Form 8500-8 (see attachment), specifically questions 17 and 18.

If you answer yes to any of these, additional documentation might be required. Not a show stopper, but if you bomb into the Flight Surgeon's office unaware of the repercussions to answering yes to these, it will create a major headache in obtaining your medical certificate.

We can help and advise on some, and have additional resources to share.

 

[MDflyer]

Thanks guys.

I'm in Maryland near Annapolis. I have my intro flight scheduled next week with an instructor out of Lee Airport. I haven't met him but have discussed over the phone. He said he has 500 hours & about 250 as an instructor. I liked him over the phone at least.

BTW, this will be my first time up in a private plane as well. Why not, right?

 

[AggieMike88]

Ron Levy is not that far from you. And one of our top instructors for both Private and Instrument.

He may post here soon. If he doesn't send him a PM (private message). If his schedule is full, he likely knows some really good primary instructors in your neighborhood. And if nothing else, go take a ride with him in his Grumman Tiger. Ron really knows his stuff, and has a very nice airplane.


As far as your first ride, that's cool. My suggestion with any instructor is to ask that the first ride be a "discovery flight". This sets the correct expectation that you're there more for the experience of flight and to check him out as an instructor. The flight still counts as loggable time (bring your logbook). But mainly its a chance for you to check out their teaching style and how well you connect with him as a teacher.

500 hrs TT/250 CFI is ... welll.... low. Is this a younger person building time for future career?

I prefer to find the guys with thousands of hours total in both TT and CFI, a hangar full of BTDT t-shirts, and are very well organized in the way they teach.

 

[MDflyer]

Thanks for the comments. He does sound like a young guy. My assumption is that he's trying to build up his hours for a career...but you know what they say about assumptions.

I'll reach out to Ron if he doesn't pop-in. T

 

[StinkBug]

I didn't know anybody in the aviation community when I started, at least not locally. I did a lot of searching around online and reading, and ended up doing 3 "discovery flights". The first was with an independent CFI who advertised on groupon of all places, the second 2 were with part 141 schools based at my local airport. One was ATP, which is a national school, and the other is a stand alone operation. I didn't get a real good feeling at ATP. It was pretty apparent that the instructor there was fairly fresh, and was just working to get hours and move on. Their price point was pretty damn high too. The other school I got a really good impression of, and I really liked the guy I flew with, but he is the head of the program and I knew I probably wouldn't actually be flying with him. I ended up going with the independent CFI. He has several thousand hours and flies for one of the airlines but teaches on all his off days because he enjoys it. That is what you really want. He's also a little younger (actually younger than I am) so I felt like we got along better on a personal level. That has nothing to do with flying, but makes a lot of difference in the experience. I just got my PPL after about 3 months of flying with him, and so far no real complaints. I plan to start working on my IR with him as soon as I get caught up with work.

 

[MDflyer]

Congrats on the PPL & good intel.

Regarding price, he said it was around $115/hr for the plane & $35/hr for the instructor. Does that jive? High/Low?

 

[ChrisK]

Congrats on the PPL & good intel.

Regarding price, he said it was around $115/hr for the plane & $35/hr for the instructor. Does that jive? High/Low?

Price varies wildly around the country and depending on facilities and equipment. I paid $62.50/hr for a 152 and $20/hr for the instructor in 2012, but that is wildly cheap compared to most other places.

 

[Mike Smith]

Central Alabama; 110 for a warrior and 45 for the instructor.

 

[ferrari-tech]

As already stated, you are ahead of the game by asking these sorts of questions.

Don't be afraid to talk to multiple instructors and interview many schools.

I went to at least 10 different schools and did demo flights at five of them with different instructors.
Asked them all the same questions and got various degrees of indifference ( guy just trying to build time to move on) and arrogance ( all my students solo in 10 hours or less).
I went with the school/instructor that had the best maintained aircraft (from what I could tell) and replied to my various questions with "when your safe".

I know I paid a little more, but I also understood the importance of getting the right training.

Talk to other pilots about there experience with their instructors, most locals know who to avoid.

Good Luck

 

[petrolero]

I guess I'm going to go counter to what everyone else is saying... to a degree. My vote is... go fly!

I went to the FBO at the airport near where I lived and talked to their instructor. I didn't interview him, I just got an overview of what is involved and bought the Jeppesen-Sanderson books and signed up for the first flight. I went home and read until my eyes bled because I was so excited. I flew with my instructor and I adjusted to his style (no rectal sunshine puffing, every attaboy earned) and it worked out great.

Don't waste time interviewing tons of schools unless you have a really fragile psyche. Just go fly. Don't make it harder than it needs to be. You won't know about an instructor until you fly together anyway. If you end up incompatible with an instructor then move on to another.

Just don't let perfection be the enemy of good.

 

[AggieMike88]

Congrats on the PPL & good intel.

Regarding price, he said it was around $115/hr for the plane & $35/hr for the instructor. Does that jive? High/Low?

What type of aircraft (year model) does he use? Owned by him or through a school?

North Texas area, $85-90 for a C150/2 and $45 for instructor. But I also know of others that are happy to charge you more.

One thing to ask of any instructor is:
describe a typical lesson... What do we do and how much time is spent in each task
Is there a written syllabus that you follow? (preferred) or is it your head?
What ground ground school options do you prefer and what material do you use?
What is your cancellation policy?
How available are you?

 

[MDflyer]

What type of aircraft (year model) does he use? Owned by him or through a school?

He mentioned that it was a flying club. While not required, it brought the cost down by $10 for the instructor & aircraft. He said they were "newer" and "nice" 172s. The flying club dues/fees were $275/year, I believe.

Is a club the way to go? I'm clueless here.

Cost is not my #1 condition but, of course, I want to be wise with my money.

 

[TUPilot]

Congrats on the PPL & good intel.

Regarding price, he said it was around $115/hr for the plane & $35/hr for the instructor. Does that jive? High/Low?

Depends on the plane. That is in line for a basic 4 seat trainer in the Annapolis area. Depending on your size (and your instructors) you might be able to make do with a two seat airplane like a 152, which run 15% to 25% less in the area. Tipton airport (northwest of Annapolis) has some relatively inexpensive aircraft if you are eligible to join the club there.. and the school out of Lee does most of its pattern work at Tipton anyway...

 

[MDflyer]

Depends on the plane. That is in line for a basic 4 seat trainer in the Annapolis area. Depending on your size (and your instructors) you might be able to make do with a two seat airplane like a 152, which run 15% to 25% less in the area. Tipton airport (northwest of Annapolis) has some relatively inexpensive aircraft if you are eligible to join the club there.. and the school out of Lee does most of its pattern work at Tipton anyway...

One concern I have is convenience to my home. I live in Northern Calvert...approx 30 mins from Lee. Tipton is a bit too far. Freeway might be workable. I appreciate any insight you may have as a local.

 

[Jaybird180]

Ron Levy is not that far from you. And one of our top instructors for both Private and Instrument.

He may post here soon. If he doesn't send him a PM (private message). If his schedule is full, he likely knows some really good primary instructors in your neighborhood. And if nothing else, go take a ride with him in his Grumman Tiger. Ron really knows his stuff, and has a very nice airplane.


As far as your first ride, that's cool. My suggestion with any instructor is to ask that the first ride be a "discovery flight". This sets the correct expectation that you're there more for the experience of flight and to check him out as an instructor. The flight still counts as loggable time (bring your logbook). But mainly its a chance for you to check out their teaching style and how well you connect with him as a teacher.

500 hrs TT/250 CFI is ... welll.... low. Is this a younger person building time for future career?

I prefer to find the guys with thousands of hours total in both TT and CFI, a hangar full of BTDT t-shirts, and are very well organized in the way they teach.

Ron will answer for himself, but he's based at KSBY. Not exactly a hop-skip and jump for the guy driving to the airport. But I've seen people do all kinds of things.

 

[AggieMike88]

A club arrangement can be a cost saver in the long run, for both training and ownership. And $275 ($23/mo) is pretty good for a non-equity club. You can spend more than that in a year on pizza.

What clubs bring to you is more and better aircraft at a lower cost of entry. For example, I am in an equity club that limits membership to 16, $3000 buy-in, $300/mo dues. But we have two VERY well fitted aircraft that rent for lower than average. Additional details here. So for $3000, I have access to two aircraft valued over $200,000.

That there is more than one aircraft for you to training in can be a plus. This can remove problems of being down for maintenance or inspections, or another renter has it scheduled when you want to do a lesson.

From what you have shared so far, I think going out to the airport to meet the instructor, see the airplane, kick the tires and sit in it while you're making "vroom vroom" noises is worth it. And maybe do a discovery flight to see if you like the style and way the instructor teaches.

 

[AggieMike88]

Ron will answer for himself, but he's based at KSBY. Not exactly a hop-skip and jump for the guy driving to the airport. But I've seen people do all kinds of things.

Yeah, Anapolis to Salisbury is nearly 2hrs by car (per Google Maps). But for an initial meet up and "consultation", worth it.

 

[Jaybird180]

If you want to come over to W00, shoot me a PM- we might have a slot available for equity ownership in our IFR Certified C-172S.

 

[CTLSi]

Ask the guy about his pass/fail ratio for his students. Ask him what his general philosophy is regarding ground and flying. Ask him how fast you can get to solo, if he tries to answer that by saying depends on your ability to learn. Don't use that guy.

Use the guy that says soloing will happen automatically when the time is right. The goal is safety. And learning the basics.

Also, ask him how often he grabs the controls. If he says when he thinks it necessary, don't use that guy. The CFI should let you control the plane the ENTIRE time you are in plane unless you do something radically unsafe.

 

[Jaybird180]

Ask the guy about his pass/fail ratio for his students. Ask him what his general philosophy is regarding ground and flying. Ask him how fast you can get to solo, if he tries to answer that by saying depends on your ability to learn. Don't use that guy.

Use the guy that says soloing will happen automatically when the time is right. The goal is safety. And learning the basics.

Not enough distinction in those 2 answers to make one qualifying and the other disqualifying IMHO.

 

[StinkBug]

$119/hr for the plane through a club and $50/hr for the instructor here. I'm flying a late '90s Archer III that's in really nice shape and well equipped. I had the option of flying an older Warrior for about $20/hour cheaper, but it was down for maintenance when I started and once I got going I wanted to stay with one plane. I fly both now depending on availability and what I'm doing. Sounds like SoCal is more expensive than most other places, no big surprise there. Looking at the rates for the local schools this was still the cheapest way to go.

 

[jordane93]

Go up for an intro flight and see if you gel with the guy. Ask about availability. If you are flying with a flight school make sure they have enough planes to accomodate you. Don't be afraid to "try out" different CFI's. You are the customer and you are paying them and if you don't like the CFI, look for another person.

 

[VictorValencia]

One thing you might find helpful is to look at the instructor's schedule and see
if he/she teaches on the days/times that work for you. If you are going to
primarily fly on the weekend you don't want an instructor who only works one
of those days.

 

[Mike Smith]

One thing you might find helpful is to look at the instructor's schedule and see
if he/she teaches on the days/times that work for you. If you are going to
primarily fly on the weekend you don't want an instructor who only works one
of those days.

This is a good one, I really like my instructor, but he doesn't really like to fly on Sunday. Not a huge issue, and he will if it is absolutely necessary, but certainly a point to look into.

 

[timwinters]

On average, (it's my opinion that) your best option would be to find a retired military guy who is teaching because he loves to teach and not because he's building hours towards his next career (which may come when you're 1/2 way thru) or needs the money, or loves ramen noodles.



Edit: there are indeed some good, young, CFIs. And few of them are here. That's why I say "on average."

 

[airdale]

Ron Levy is not that far from you. ...

500 hrs TT/250 CFI is ... welll.... low. ...

I prefer to find the guys with thousands of hours total in both TT and CFI, a hangar full of BTDT t-shirts, and are very well organized in the way they teach.

Yes. As AggieMike88 and others have said, more experience is better than less experience, and teaching to build time is not the same as teaching for the love of it.

Re 500/250 my guess is that this instructor has never really traveled any significant distances where flight planning is more than checking the TAF (weather forecast) for the next few hours. 250 to get his ratings and then he's giving dual. Real-world experience is more important for an instrument instructor but it should not be ignored even for the PPL. Ask him to tell you about his three or four longest trips and see what you get. Or ask him how many different airports are listed in his logbook.

Anticipating cries of outrage, I will stipulate that a low-time time-builder can be an excellent instructor. But your odds of finding a gem are improved by seeking out the experienced old bears.

Re Levy, since you're close I think the answer to your original post is easy. Go fly with him and get his advice. I don't know him personally but I have read posts and articles by him here and at the Grumman Gang. He's a solid citizen and you will do well to follow his advice.

 

[bobmrg]

Following up on airedale....ask how those 500 hours were accumulated. If they were all training-associated in the local area, try to find someone who has done some flying outside of training.

Bob Gardner

 

[airdale]

Following up on airedale....ask how those 500 hours were accumulated. If they were all training-associated in the local area, try to find someone who has done some flying outside of training

IIRC it is theoretically possible for someone to become a fully-qualified instrument instructor having landed at only three airports and never having flown in a cloud.

I was talking to a Diamond salesman one time about doing some ferry work for him. He said that his company's young flight instructors were turning down trips because they had never traveled away from home and were a little afraid of the idea. The deal didn't work out but I was very surprised to hear the reason he was looking for help.

 

[CTLSi]

There are two keys to find YOUR CFI.

1. do you like the guy/gal. are they compatible with you on a personality and demeanor basis. do they seem to speak clearly and communicate easily with you.

2. are they able to commit and adapt to your time schedule and frequency of flying needs.

It doesn't matter if they are young, old, male, female, retired military, a former school teacher, have another job (like being a DPE), or looking to build hours for something else.

 

[poadeleted20]

Ron Levy is not that far from you. And one of our top instructors for both Private and Instrument.

He may post here soon. If he doesn't send him a PM (private message). If his schedule is full, he likely knows some really good primary instructors in your neighborhood.

I appreciate Mike's kind words. I don't do much primary instructing since that's not amenable to the sort of intensive training I give (unless you live here in Salisbury MD), but I know some good folks on the other side of the Bay. If you're interested, PM or email and I'll try to hook you up with one.

 

[timwinters]

There are two keys to find YOUR CFI.

1. do you like the guy/gal. are they compatible with you on a personality and demeanor basis. do they seem to speak clearly and communicate easily with you.

2. are they able to commit and adapt to your time schedule and frequency of flying needs.

So it matters not:

1. What they know.

2. If they know how to teach.

3. If they're only 50 hours away from getting that local charter position.

4. It they're an anal-retentive "one each" type of person.

None of that matters. The only things that matter is if you get along with them okay and their schedule is flexible enough to suit you.

Got it.

 

[CTLSi]

5 characters.

 

[CTLSi]

So it matters not:

1. What they know.

2. If they know how to teach.

3. If they're only 50 hours away from getting that local charter position.

4. It they're an anal-retentive "one each" type of person.

None of that matters. The only things that matter is if you get along with them okay and their schedule is flexible enough to suit you.

Got it.

If they are a CFI the FAA says they are qualified. Are you saying you know better? Are you saying having a CFI means they are incompetent to teach aviation? What are you saying?

Ignore the FAA certification folks, they are just letters behind a name...Hear that CFI's?

 

[bobmrg]

If they are a CFI the FAA says they are qualified. Are you saying you know better? Are you saying having a CFI means they are incompetent to teach aviation? What are you saying?

Ignore the FAA certification folks, they are just letters behind a name...Hear that CFI's?

The FAA inspector who passed my on my first try at CFI should be taken out and hung (if he is still alive). I knew the answers for the written and I knew the maneuvers for the checkride. Did I know how to teach? Questionable. He was taking me on faith.

I had done quite a bit of classroom teaching in the Coast Guard, but that did not necessarily transfer to the right seat of a 150. Nine out of my first ten students passed on the first go-around, so I must have been doing something right.

New CFIs take awhile before they become competent teachers, regardless of what the FAA puts on a piece of paper.

Bob Gardner

 

[timwinters]

If they are a CFI the FAA says they are qualified. Are you saying you know better? Are you saying having a CFI means they are incompetent to teach aviation? What are you saying?

Ignore the FAA certification folks, they are just letters behind a name...Hear that CFI's?

One of the CFIIs that I worked with on my instrument rating is going to get someone killed one of these days (if he hasn't already). His students don't often fail the instrument check ride because his best friend gives them. It's quite the system those two have going.

This is a pretty serious game we're playing...

 

[Jaybird180]

The FAA inspector who passed my on my first try at CFI should be taken out and hung (if he is still alive). I knew the answers for the written and I knew the maneuvers for the checkride. Did I know how to teach? Questionable. He was taking me on faith.

I had done quite a bit of classroom teaching in the Coast Guard, but that did not necessarily transfer to the right seat of a 150. Nine out of my first ten students passed on the first go-around, so I must have been doing something right.

New CFIs take awhile before they become competent teachers, regardless of what the FAA puts on a piece of paper.

Bob Gardner

No one can be expected to have all the right stuff when they start. Do you have the necessary ingredients? Based on what you've accomplished , I'd say so. You had low confidence and retrospectively now you know what you didn't know then. I'd say the FAA inspector was wiser than a young Bob Gardner.

 

[James331]

Ask the guy about his pass/fail ratio for his students. Ask him what his general philosophy is regarding ground and flying. Ask him how fast you can get to solo, if he tries to answer that by saying depends on your ability to learn. Don't use that guy.

Use the guy that says soloing will happen automatically when the time is right. The goal is safety. And learning the basics.

Also, ask him how often he grabs the controls. If he says when he thinks it necessary, don't use that guy. The CFI should let you control the plane the ENTIRE time you are in plane unless you do something radically unsafe.

CTLSi are you a CFI??

I would completely ignore that post, minus where he contradicts himself.



What you want is a higher time CFI who teaches on the side from his full time flying job.

FIRST thing, chat with him about his goals, sports, where he's from etc, see if you hit it off, you need to have someone you mesh with.

If you think you could be locked in a small aluminum can with the dude for hours on end, next step.

SCHEDULES, is your free time matching with his free time, if you can't get two flight a week out of him, it ain't gona' work.

Next his credentials, ask to talk to a few of his former students (2 or 3), they should be recent, you want a guy that is still keeping his CFI seat warm.

After that how much total time does he have? Is he a commercial pilot or an ATP? I'd want a ATP if I were you.

does he have any tailwheel, acro, glider or chopper time, the more diversified the better IMO

I'd also ask if he is a gold seal CFI, this at least tells you that he is/was a very active CFI and has/had at least a 80% first time pass ratio. It's easy to tell a gold seal CFI, the FAA symbol on his CFI ticket will be gold

Then just go do a 30min discovery flight with him, see how you like it.


The DONTS
Don't join a club, buy a plane or make any other huge money decisions until you get your license, I can't tell you how many people didn't end up finishing and had to whore out all the fancy expensive dodads, headsets, iPads, planes and club memberships they foolishly bought.

Just find the cheapest plane to fly in, it doesn't have to be pretty, just airworthy.


Most importantly, ENJOY!!


Blue Skies