Average time to earn complex endorsement

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skynewbie

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Hi folks,

I'm working on my complex endorsement bit the club Cessna 172RG and so far have flown 3 hours and 3 hours ground with a club CFI. I'm finishing up with another club instructor since my past CFI moved. What is the average time to complete this? I've done maneuvers, emergency landing gear extension and pattern work. When I spoke with the club owner, she told me it takes about 5-10 hours of dual to complete it before I earn the complex endorsement. I really like flying retract planes and have the GUMPS ingrained well.
 
5-10 sounds a bit high to me. I would have said about 3 hours, plus your time doing homework learning about the gear and power/prop systems.
 
The 5-10 hours is more an insurance thing for being able to rent without an instructor. Complex should take an hour in the air to learn. I got an hour of systems ground and did a <3hr long X for my OP in a 172RG and was signed off when we got back. Took a 182 on a mother X and got signed off for HP as well on my way to PP.
 
I got my HP + Complex endorsement in 3.1 hours. I was signed off to rent at 5 hours (like Henning said this was for owner insurance reasons). My insurance company had no special requirements beyond the endorsement.
 
If this is your first airplane with cowl flaps and a CS prop, it will take longer. GUMPS is really important, but you also have to manage CHT and plan your descent. You need to have softer landings than fixed gear as well, as the gear has more parts with more movement to break.

Your instructor must be confident that you won't cook or overspeed the engine, slam the gear, or especially land gear up, ever, before signing you off. Even when task saturated or distracted. My final exam was a direct transition from Hayward to San Carlos, dodging Class B, traffic, and cloudbursts on a very short route I'd never taken before, while making a ton of radio calls and missing no checklist items.

It doesn't help that you put weeks of time between your lessons.
 
+1 MAKG,

Yes, I agree. I had to switch instructors since the CFI who started me last weekend moved and has limited availability. Fortunately I'm finishing up with a good instructor with whom I've flown with before in the past. So hopefully this week can wrap it up. Yes the Cessna retract gear is not as robust as those found in other retracts so it mandates a soft touchdown to avoid pronging the gear. I think this week with few more flights will satisfy club insurance requirements to earn my endorsement.
 
I did my complex endorsement in a 172RG in 1.5 hours. Seems like you should already have the fundamentals down.

To rent that plane solo I had to have a few more hours. But I was doing my commercial rating in it so I had plenty of hours before I rented it anyways.
 
That makes sense, yeah I have the basics down. The additional dual required before solo and endorsement sign off from the CFI is due to club insurance requirements because AFAIK there is no minimum FAA requirement for total hours.
 
I think it took around 3-5 hours for me in my mooney. I didn't really keep track b/c insurance wanted 10 of dual anyway.
 
3-5 hrs across 2 or 3 flights, depending on pilot abilities and how overwhelmed they get. As long as they are reasonably current and competent.
 
Quality ground time and chair flying can keep the flying time more reasonable.
 
I had a lot of tail wheel time, my checkout in the mooney wasa little over an hour, plus reading about 2 hours. It was a super 21.
 
Hmm does that mean that I really suck as a pilot? It's up to the CFI and club management discretion on these endorsements. I'm hoping few more hours to get the complex done.
 
When I originally got mine it took about 3.5 hours. I've just completed my BFR and I need to basically re-do the familiarization flight. My FBO quoted a standard complex/high performance syllabus of 10 hours. Ill have to nail down what exactly will be expected of mine.

I only have about 8 hours total complex so even if its 10 hours it wont matter because as someone said before I don't have the minimal required for most insurance companies so Ill need a bit of duel anyway
 
I got mine in an Arrow in 10 hours due to my flight school's insurance. My instructor said I was ready at 5 hours
 
Depends on how much you fly, if you're logging a good bit of time a month in your 172, pa18 etc it won't be more then a couple hours air and maybe a hr ground.

If you haven't flown in a while and are, say using the complex as a BFR to get back in saddle, it might take longer.
 
As others suggested, the amount of time it takes is almost exclusively a function of insurance considerations. A CFI could certainly endorse you before then but why bother, unless you really want the bragging rights of, "I got my endorsement in 2 hours but no one will let me fly the airplane without an instructor! (whoopee!)"

Even back in 1992, my FBO had a 5 hour minimum requirement for transitions into the Cutlass. I was luck to have a great instructor who included a session flying a few instrument approaches also (I already had my instrument rating). The other plus was the very next lesson I did a complete checkout in a 182.


And those who suggested the first transition takes more "real" time than later ones is absolutely correct.
 
skynewbie said:
Hi folks,

I'm working on my complex endorsement bit the club Cessna 172RG and so far have flown 3 hours and 3 hours ground with a club CFI. I'm finishing up with another club instructor since my past CFI moved. What is the average time to complete this? I've done maneuvers, emergency landing gear extension and pattern work. When I spoke with the club owner, she told me it takes about 5-10 hours of dual to complete it before I earn the complex endorsement. I really like flying retract planes and have the GUMPS ingrained well.
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10 hours dual plus 15 solo for me.

Your fascination with retract will disappear the first time you don't get the gear down.
 
Datadriver said:
10 hours dual plus 15 solo for me.

Your fascination with retract will disappear the first time you don't get the gear down.
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25+ years, 1500 hrs retract and another 1000 fixed gear, haven't come close to forgetting the gear yet. I am never disappointed by the extra speed for less fuel.
 
Henning said:
25+ years, 1500 hrs retract and another 1000 fixed gear, haven't come close to forgetting the gear yet. I am never disappointed by the extra speed for less fuel.
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I know the modern planes have done better with landing gear aerodynamics, but I'm amazed at how much faster my 180HP mooney is than the 180HP cherokee I was flying. nearly 35-40 knots difference.
 
Depends on the individual and his/her prior experience and current proficiency, as well as familiarity with the aircraft in which the training will be conducted. For example, it's easier to get someone done in an Arrow if they already have prior experience and proficiency in a fixed-gear PA28 (ditto 172 and Cutlass, Beech Sundowner and Sierra, etc). It's possible someone could be done in an hour and a half, while someone else could take 10 hours or more -- just no way to say without a lot more information, and even then, no guarantees of accuracy without flying with the individual.
 
I did mine in south Florida. We went on a XC in an Arrow III and got it done in 4 hours, after doing a few landings at a few airports. The place where I can rent one here wants 10 hours on their Arrow due to insurance. So I think the insurance factor drives it more so than other factors. I would think you could know the plane in 2-3 hours or so, but insurance then would dictate when you could fly plane solo.
 
I had one student take 50 hours....but he was a low-time, newly minted private pilot transitioning to a very high-performance six-seat airplane. Insurance required 25 hours but at that point I wasn't comfortable signing him off for anything. In fairness, we were accomplishing this in the course of a weekly 423 mile commute, so straight-and-level time didn't contribute much to his transition. Had we JUST been flying local focusing on takeoffs and landings he would have easily made it in the 25.
 
skynewbie said:
Hmm does that mean that I really suck as a pilot? It's up to the CFI and club management discretion on these endorsements. I'm hoping few more hours to get the complex done.
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Probably not the case. You're probably fine. In my situation, the majority of my flight time has been in a PA28 airframe, so the transition to the Arrow was pretty straight forward. It was just a matter of learning the systems and procedures and learning what settings to use on the prop.

If I tried getting checked out on a 182RG etc, I'm sure it would have taken much longer.
 
Thanks guys, actually it's really because of club insurance policies. I had a friendly chat with the club owner and my CFI today and it's the insurance requirements. I'm doing well with it so far in terms of GUMPS and planning descents around busy Class B and C airspace. Today was super windy !
 
I just didi mine in a PA-28R-180 Arrow. 3.3 hours total over two lessons in a week.

Now insurance wants 10 hours in that plane for solo. Since it's not often available I'm not bothering right now, but any time I get in a complex plane (non-HP) I can log as PIC...

John
 
I did my HP and Complex in a T182 in about 2 hours, combined with a FR.
 
rbridges said:
I know the modern planes have done better with landing gear aerodynamics, but I'm amazed at how much faster my 180HP mooney is than the 180HP cherokee I was flying. nearly 35-40 knots difference.
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I've ferried a C model Mooney with the gear down and the performance numbers are almost identical to a fixed gear Cherokee. Just something you might find interesting.


As far as time to get a complex endorsement goes, most of the places around here base their complex endorsement requirements around their insurance requirements. When I did mine the local FBO wanted 10 hours. Ironically, the tailwheel endorsement requirements were less onerous. I'd think the FBO and insurance company would have more to worry about with tailwheel rentals than they would with a complex rental but that's the way it was.
 
mondtster said:
I've ferried a C model Mooney with the gear down and the performance numbers are almost identical to a fixed gear Cherokee. Just something you might find interesting.


As far as time to get a complex endorsement goes, most of the places around here base their complex endorsement requirements around their insurance requirements. When I did mine the local FBO wanted 10 hours. Ironically, the tailwheel endorsement requirements were less onerous. I'd think the FBO and insurance company would have more to worry about with tailwheel rentals than they would with a complex rental but that's the way it was.
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Our club requires 5 hours for the 182RG and I think 20 hours for the 140
 
my complex was done in maybe 45 min of ground and 1.1 on the hobbs in the plane. That said, i didn't have enough complex time to rent a plane. :( When i started training for my IR, i did it all in a complex, and built up close to 60 hrs of complex cross country time
 
For reference, it took me a bunch of hours (around 100 or so) to get my PPL, but took 1.5 to get my Complex.
 
im in the same boat as nick.. I was about 100 hrs into it when i got my private
 
1hr flying, 1hr ground. And probably around 3 hours self-study before that.
 
In my club u have to have a minimum of 150 hours to solo the arrow but I was thinking I could still get the endorsement just can't fly it solo is it worth it?


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marcoseddi said:
In my club u have to have a minimum of 150 hours to solo the arrow but I was thinking I could still get the endorsement just can't fly it solo is it worth it?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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I bet with 20 hrs dual in it the insurance will waive the 150TT
 
Got mine in about .8 in a Cutlass.

I own and fly a 177B, so the only thing new was the gear lever.

Still needed 10 hours to rent it (no desire, just working on my commercial, that I need 10 hours complex for anyway....)

-Dan
 
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