Android AWOL from OSH

[kyleb]

WRT aviation, in 2012 I would have agreed that ForeFlight on the iPad was a clear winner. Now, not so much. Garmin Pilot with the GDL-39 providing traffic and weather on the Anroid-powered Nexus 7 rocks.

When I said the Nexus 7 was superior to the iPad, I was referring to the other 97% of the time I'm using a tablet.

Aren't you comparing a 3 (?) year old iPad 1, which was expensive and near-leading edge when you bought it to a smaller knock-off released a couple of years later? The way technology moves, it is easy to produce a good knock-off a couple of years after the real deal comes out.

A fair comparison today would be the iPad mini vs the N7. Sure, there is still a price difference, but the difference in available applications makes up for it for most of us...

 

[airdale]

When I said the Nexus 7 was superior to the iPad, I was referring to the other 97% of the time I'm using a tablet.

I agree.

A fair comparison today would be the iPad mini vs the N7.

I ditched my iPad a year ago in disgust and bought an N7. Tell me if anything has changed since then.

• The primative and only available on-screen keyboard was so stupid that it displayed upper-case letters when typing lower case.
• The interface software, iTunes, was a ponderous and bloated mess of patches on ancient code originally intended to sell music to teenagers. It was accompanied by an egregious load of routines that installed without permission, slowed my computer at startup, and probably included spyware.
• Browser restrictions were such that I could not use even basic tools like Adblock Plus.
• I could not view animated weather.gov radar because the Dear Departed did not like Adobe.
• I could not use a Bluetooth mouse because Apple had determined for me that I did not need it.
• I could not see the status of GPS signals as satellites were acquired (or not) because the iThing API did not expose the GPS to apps.
• The hardware interface provided limited functionality and required a proprietary plug.

Apps?

• I can now choose from a plethora of keyboards that compare to the Apple keyboard like a Ferrari compares to a donkey cart.
• I don't need any proprietary interface software at all.
• I can load the real Firefox and run Adblock Plus just fine.
• Flash animation works.
• My Bluetooth mouse is supported by the operating system, a very handy thing then working with text larger than tweets and SMS messages.
• There are any number of GPS applications available that will display satellite status easily.
• The hardware interface is USB with a lot of flexibility.

Really, the only application weakness that matters to me is the fact that Pilot on Android does not yet have all the features that are available on Pilot for iThings. But that is getting remedied. I am willing to tolerate this to avoid the monumental aggravation of dealing with a supercilious vendor who treats customers like ignorant sheep.

As I have said in other posts I continue to be amazed that many aviation developers are too shortsighted to see the opportunities in the Android market. I just don't understand the allure of fighting for 1% market share crumbs. It will be interesting to look in a year and see what has transpired in the two markets.

 

[nddons]

I may be a dork (and those of you who know me: don't judge me) but yesterday at AirVenture I attended a forum called "iPad in the Cockpit" presented by Jason Miller, one of he co-founders of ForeFlight. The Forum was for 4:00-5:30, while the airshow was going on. The Forum was PACKED. Standing room only.

I suspect the iPad is still the device of choice among pilots.

As for Apple's "philosophy", I have no idea what you all are talking about.

 

[David]

I use a Galaxy Note 2 phone and I run Garmin Pilot on it. I'm only using it for VFR. The Note 2 is a large phone with a big screen but it still fits in my pocket. If I've got my phone with me, I've got a great navigation tool on a screen that's large enough to be easy to use. I had an Iphone 5 but I found the screen a bit too small to be practical for navigation software.

My buddy on the other hand uses Foreflight on his Ipad in his Bonanza. He's got a panel mounted 530WAAS and a yoke mounted 496 with XM. There's plenty of room in a bonanza to keep an ipad so why not bring a product with an excellent screen and great software.

 

[Henning]

I wonder what a booth costs at OSH?

If you think about it, I bet most of the Android stuff out there started out as a guy/gal that does development work for their 'real' job getting an itch to develop something for his aviation disea... err. passion. Next thing you know, they have a quality product, but not a lot of resources around its marketing/business management/etc. So they are 'stuck' trying to support a low-capital business.

Edit: Looks like ~$2500 for an indoor booth - roughly 70 annual Naviator subscriptions to break even on the booth rental itself.
http://www.airventure.org/exhibitors/HangarABCD.pdf

That's not even close to what it costs to display at OSH (or any other convention), that's just floor rental space. Add in creating and transporting the displays and people, hotel and food... and the cost is easily 10 times that.

Why would Android be there anyway? They just have the OS, not the apps, you have to ask the app developers why they aren't developing for Android.

 

[LDJones]

How many pilots do you see walking around with android tablets here? I've seen zero. If you were a developer walking around Airventure would you target the platform with no visible users or the one that you see in everyone's hand?

That's a little bit of chicken and egg. With virtually all the software for pilots being iPad, it shouldn't be surprising that most are carrying iPads. But peruse a more general population gathering and you'll see a growing Android base. Heck, my bro in law even showed up with a Note 8 the other day, and he's an Apple guy. Gave his iPad to his wife.

 

[rich0]

I just don't understand the allure of fighting for 1% market share crumbs. It will be interesting to look in a year and see what has transpired in the two markets.

That's also what I don't get. If you're looking to create a NEW aviation application, Android seems like your best bet, regardless of where the customers are or the merits of the platform.

Sure, there are lots of pilots carrying around iPads today, but they also all have subscriptions to one of several fairly refined applications. If you're going to sell a new app it has to either do something NONE of those apps already do, or fill that niche so well that people will buy it in addition to one of them. Chances are you'll end up with 1% of a large market that is shrinking.

If you target Android there aren't nearly as many mature applications out there. If your app is good, you might end up with 30% of a small market that is growing.

Sure, there is always the chance that iOS will be a niche platform in aviation like OSX is in education/publishing. Still, a niche platform usually just means that it has 40% market share instead of 10% - lots of windows software gets used in those industries.

 

[Cap'n Jack]

That's not even close to what it costs to display at OSH (or any other convention), that's just floor rental space. Add in creating and transporting the displays and people, hotel and food... and the cost is easily 10 times that.

<snip>

Not really. It depends on the venue, and the company exhibiting. Trade shows are a budgeted sales/ marketing expense, so most companies know which of their staff is going months to a year in advance. For example, I'm already planning the spring ACS meeting for next March. This lets them get good hotel and air rates by booking early. We generally have a sales rep living close to the venue so there's no hotel cost for them. Creating the displays is usually easy since the pop-up displays are standardized and a new sign can be printed for $100 at Kinkos. The recent American Society of Pharmacognosy meeting we displayed, $1500 for floor space; $400 for transportation (people), $200 equipment transportation. We used a table-top display, an instrument- no extra cost. Hotel and meals totaled $800. So everything other than the floor space came to about $1400, roughly equal to the floor space. Larger booths have more people to run them, but the floor space rental cost is larger too. In those cases, the booth is often rented, but still use standard signage. I've never seen more an about 5x floor space rental for shows I've been involved with.

 

[DaleB]

Jack, I think Van's expense for transporting the tent and stuff (truck freight) and several demo aircraft (people, fuel, very expensive lodging, meals) might be a little higher than your example. $25K total expense might be a stretch, but it wouldn't shock me either. Check the cost of hotels anywhere near Oshkosh during Airventure.

 

[jjflys]

That's a little bit of chicken and egg. With virtually all the software for pilots being iPad, it shouldn't be surprising that most are carrying iPads. But peruse a more general population gathering and you'll see a growing Android base. Heck, my bro in law even showed up with a Note 8 the other day, and he's an Apple guy. Gave his iPad to his wife.

Maybe I'm a special case, but I've noticed at work (healthcare) that more and more people and going away from Android to iOS for personal phones and tablets. For our work cell phones we are going to iOS vs Crackberry and the standard work tablet are also iOS. My own personal theory (and backed by the article below) is that while Apple is losing tablet market share globally (e.g. emerging markets) they are still dominating here in North America.



Here's the article: http://www.forbes.com/sites/chuckjo...hare-but-still-dominates-north-america-usage/

 

[JoseCuervo]

Not really. It depends on the venue, and the company exhibiting. Trade shows are a budgeted sales/ marketing expense, so most companies know which of their staff is going months to a year in advance. For example, I'm already planning the spring ACS meeting for next March. This lets them get good hotel and air rates by booking early. We generally have a sales rep living close to the venue so there's no hotel cost for them. Creating the displays is usually easy since the pop-up displays are standardized and a new sign can be printed for $100 at Kinkos. The recent American Society of Pharmacognosy meeting we displayed, $1500 for floor space; $400 for transportation (people), $200 equipment transportation. We used a table-top display, an instrument- no extra cost. Hotel and meals totaled $800. So everything other than the floor space came to about $1400, roughly equal to the floor space. Larger booths have more people to run them, but the floor space rental cost is larger too. In those cases, the booth is often rented, but still use standard signage. I've never seen more an about 5x floor space rental for shows I've been involved with.

You also have the salary costs of those doing all the prep, those attending and not doing their "regular job", etc..... Kinkos may only charge you $100 for your printed sign, but somebody has to design it, transmit it, and go pick it up, bring it back. etc... etc.... You know, the stuff the accountants call Overhead.

 

[retailguy]

I live in an apple free household, and love my nexus 7. Naviator and garmin pilot work just fine, and if I lose my charging cable, I can use the one for my cell phone, or spend a couple dollars at ANY store for a new micro USB plug.

Would I like to use Foreflight? Sure. But not enough to buy an apple product.

Right now I have Naviator and it works just fine. And I never have to use or think about itunes.... For me, you can't put a price on that one!

 

[Cap'n Jack]

You also have the salary costs of those doing all the prep, those attending and not doing their "regular job", etc..... Kinkos may only charge you $100 for your printed sign, but somebody has to design it, transmit it, and go pick it up, bring it back. etc... etc.... You know, the stuff the accountants call Overhead.

The sign design is an hour tops, I use "creative briefs" so there isn't a lot of time working on the message, since at was decided long ago and it is consistent with other marketing materials. All of the layout takes little time as well because of consistency with other marketing materials. You want customers to see the same design and message several times so it sticks in their mind at purchase time. We also use the same signs at many shows. Transmitting it is basically free with e-mail. If it needs picked up, get it on the way to the show. Attending shows and meetings is part of my regular job, so it is built into our business as part of our overhead. The sales team that attends the show are also doing their "regular" because the customers they are supposed to meet are also at the same show. They often meet more customers during the show because they don't have to travel to the customer so they get more done.

It still doesn't come to 10x the floor rental. For the example I gave, those other costs don't nearly come to $12,000 ( $1,500 x 10; $3000 costs listed, $12,000 remaining).

 

[wabower]

I've had an iPad for two years and haven't needed iTunes yet. Whatever its supposedly necessity might be hasn't occurred yet for FF, Stratus and numerous other apps.

I live in an apple free household, and love my nexus 7. Naviator and garmin pilot work just fine, and if I lose my charging cable, I can use the one for my cell phone, or spend a couple dollars at ANY store for a new micro USB plug.

Would I like to use Foreflight? Sure. But not enough to buy an apple product.

Right now I have Naviator and it works just fine. And I never have to use or think about itunes.... For me, you can't put a price on that one!

 

[John221us]

I've had an iPad for two years and haven't needed iTunes yet. Whatever its supposedly necessity might be hasn't occurred yet for FF, Stratus and numerous other apps.

It used to be required for updates. Since IOS 5 a couple of years ago they started supporting OTA (over the air) updates and it is no longer required. It can still speed up backups if you have a lot of music or video files, though, but it is not required anymore.

 

[MSPAviator]

Avilution was there. They have geo referenced plates for less $ than Foreflight, a built-in timer, and you can scribble on stuff. All features that my iPad/FF using friend liked.

I personally fly VFR with a small Android phone and Naviator. Naviator is great--especially for free but it lacks advanced flight planning/filing/weather/AFD features.

I'm personally about to pull the trigger on a new Nexus 7 and probably Avilution instead of Garmin Pilot. I'm not the hugest fan of Garmin market practices regarding their hardware and upgrade paths so I don't think they really need my support.

Avilution is at the moment a pretty small scale operation and I feel like they will be more reactive to feature requests and bug fixes.


I also went to the Lightspeed booth and asked about their lack of corresponding Android app for their headsets. They said the majority of their users were iPad/iPhone people and they were noncommittal about coming out with an Android app basically telling me they had no plans to make one. Very disappointing.

 

[rich0]

I also went to the Lightspeed booth and asked about their lack of corresponding Android app for their headsets. They said the majority of their users were iPad/iPhone people and they were noncommittal about coming out with an Android app basically telling me they had no plans to make one. Very disappointing.

That was my thought as well when I saw the new Zulu PFX set. I have a Sierra that I'm using for training. I figured that I'd see how I liked it and consider upgrading long-term when I get my license. It is a bit frustrating to see a new headset that seems dependent on an iOS-based application to configure it. Might still be worth it if it was sufficiently superior without any bluetooth-based configuration, or if it could be reverse-engineered to run on Android. However, I can't really see paying such a steep price for a device that is basically crippled if you don't use a single brand of mobile device.

It also seems pretty ridiculous when you consider how little the app actually does (disclaimer - I've only seen the videos). It just looks like a single page of checkboxes and sliders. That would take very little time to develop on any mobile OS, and it isn't like your checkbox isn't going to work right if the screen resolution isn't such-and-such. I can see the expense of supporting multiple OSes when you're talking about a much more substantial application.

Assuming they didn't encrypt the interface I'm hoping that somebody reverse-engineers it. One of the problems I'm starting to appreciate with aviation is that it doesn't seem like there are nearly as many people involved in it how have an interest in open-source software and such. Perhaps the expense tends to keep them away - you're either using steam gauges from the 60s or very expensive proprietary avionics that are difficult to interface/modify. The simulator world has a bit more involvement.

 

[rich0]

Maybe I'm a special case, but I've noticed at work (healthcare) that more and more people and going away from Android to iOS for personal phones and tablets. For our work cell phones we are going to iOS vs Crackberry and the standard work tablet are also iOS. My own personal theory (and backed by the article below) is that while Apple is losing tablet market share globally (e.g. emerging markets) they are still dominating here in North America.

Generally speaking Android has always had higher adoption outside the US than in North America, but on phones the NA market share is still much higher than iOS.

iOS generally enjoys more corporate support. My own company is still working on supporting Android for checking email, and has no plans to deploy applications/etc on Android. The idea of supporting a single brand and a few models of devices has always been popular in corporate IT departments. The result in my workplace is just that half the workers don't check their email from their phones - I haven't really gotten the impression that anybody picks a particular model of phone because that is what their employer supports unless the company is paying for the phone.

 

[Jay Honeck]

Oh, well. I will continue to happily use Garmin Pilot to display traffic and weather over a moving sectional map, on a Nexus 7 that has a better display, a faster processor, and cost less than HALF of what an iThing costs.

Sooner or later, the pilot population (and the companies who serve them) might catch up with the rest of the world. That world has already decided that the market winner is Android.

 

[X3 Skier]

Some like android, some like iOS.

About as important and critical as a preference for McDonalds vs Burger King or Ruby Tuesay vs Applebee's or Ruth's Chris vs Morton's, (depending on your budget)

Cheers

 

[Armageddon Aviator]

Amazingly, there is almost no Android presence at OSH again this year. With Android tablet sales skyrocketing, I really thought this was the year for this platform to explode -- but the marketers all seem to have missed the boat.

Thank goodness for Garmin, or we would have nothing regarding Android at OSH. Man, what a missed opportunity for Naviator, etc.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S3...

I use Air Navigation Pro...they have iOS and Android versions...

Works great...not sure how it compares to Foreflight for flying in the U.S.

It's the number one navigation app for flying in Europe and in the Middle East...

You might want to check it out...

 

[Cap'n Jack]

Oh, well. I will continue to happily use Garmin Pilot to display traffic and weather over a moving sectional map, on a Nexus 7 that has a better display, a faster processor, and cost less than HALF of what an iThing costs.

Sooner or later, the pilot population (and the companies who serve them) might catch up with the rest of the world. That world has already decided that the market winner is Android.

Look at what What Jesse wrote earlier in the thread, and the comments below from Dale. They pretty much explained why aviation developers generally haven't embraced Android. Most apps (of all types) are software only that may connect to the internet as their contact with the rest of the world, and these can be pretty much platform independent. Aviation apps are one of the few that interact with outside hardware (external GPS, ADS B receivers, etc). It's much easier to write for something that is stable (no OS customizations) and has consistant hardware. Right now, Android devices I can buy now range from $70 to a price similar to an iPad. There's a wide range of configurations to support.


Software developers and the companies they work for (or own) are rational and will develop for a platform that gives the most return on their investment in time. Having to spend a lot of time trying to support a $70 device someone bought today reduces that ROI. They made the same sort of decision you make as you run your hotel business about whether it is worth investing in something. In the case of Android, aviation developers decided the investment wasn't worth it.

Having said that, I really don't know how Garmin does it- they may have some sort of program that runs that explains whether the device it is downloaded into is able to run the program.

It's like the MicroSoft/Apple "battles" when Windows first came out. Some programs (ChemDraw and Photoshop, for example) were only available on the Mac because it was easier to support the product, since they didn't need to write a gazillion drivers for monitors and printers. Eventually, Windows "grew up" and programs became available on both platforms. This is likely to happen for Android as well.

I'm not picking on Android- it's a fine platform for many things and you can get a lot of bang for the buck. For those apps that don't use hardware, it works very well, but it is still getting stable. It's much better (from the developer point-of-view) than Windows CE where programs pretty well almost had to be rewritten because of the changes in hardware and OS with each release; also programs written for one device often wouldn't run on another due to manufacturer "customizations"

I think the real strength of the iPad/iPod product line is the standardized hardware. Sure, that standard may change from time to time, but because there is such a large number of them out there we see a lot of aftermarket gear for them. The Android devices span a hundred different hardware configurations, no two alike. No standard types or locations for connectors and no standard form factor means no standard mounts or accessories. If I'm a manufacturer and I want to make a mobile mount, docking station or whatever, it matters not if Android devices outnumber Apple products 5 to 1. I don't want to make a hundred different products and sell a couple thousand of each, I want to make 1 or 2 or 3 products and sell tens or hundreds of thousands. So - I can find all kinds of "stuff" for an iPad, and virtually nothing for most Android based tablets.
<SNIP>
Android... meh. App support is sucky at best and moving very slowly. As much as I would love to see Android succeed and flourish, until the hardware manufacturers get together and standardize something -- anything -- I can see it struggling for a long time to come. The one Android tablet I came very close to buying used a proprietary 30-pin connector. No USB, HDMI, nothing -- if you want to plug something in, buy an adapter cable. What? When did Apple get into the Android tablet market? No sale. And Google isn't helping anything either; I'm getting really tired of their snooping.

<SNIP>

 

[airdale]

That world has already decided that the market winner is Android.

http://www.idc.com/getdoc.jsp?containerId=prUS24253413 I don't think that necessarily means that Android will come to dominate the aviation market but I do think it means that a horse race is coming.

Software developers and the companies they work for (or own) are rational and will develop for a platform that gives the most return on their investment in time.

Not necessarily. First, modern economic research is telling us that we are not the dispassionate, rational decisions makers that we all like to believe we are. Second, determining which platform gives the most return can only be done in the rear view mirror and only if there are equal development efforts on every platform. Through the windshield, things are not so clear. It's a judgment call even though people like to believe that they are dispassionate, rational, etc. when predicting the future. As Yogi Berra supposedly said: “It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future.” A herd instinct dominates much investment decision making and there's no reason to believe it's different here. IMHO that is what is happening, but obviously others do not agree. We'll see ...

 

[flyingcheesehead]

The iOS market has a lot of competition now, and the Android market only has Pilot which isn't really that mature yet. If somebody came in with a strong product they could seize a large market share and if they properly supported their product they could keep that market share for a long time.

That may actually be why indie aviation developers are so slow to move to Android - When the iPad came out it was anyone's game, and LOTS of players jumped in (I think there are/have been at least 20 EFB apps available on iOS - I have a whole screenful of 'em and I'm sure I don't have them all). However, the Nexus 7 seems to have been the most successful Android entrant to the tablet market so far, and Garmin jumped into that market pretty quickly. Were I a small developer staking my livelihood on a small market like the Android aviation market, I wouldn't bother with it if there was already an 800-pound gorilla in the room.

 

[Cap'n Jack]

<SNIP>Not necessarily. First, modern economic research is telling us that we are not the dispassionate, rational decisions makers that we all like to believe we are. Second, determining which platform gives the most return can only be done in the rear view mirror and only if there are equal development efforts on every platform. Through the windshield, things are not so clear. It's a judgment call even though people like to believe that they are dispassionate, rational, etc. when predicting the future. As Yogi Berra supposedly said: “It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future.” A herd instinct dominates much investment decision making and there's no reason to believe it's different here. IMHO that is what is happening, but obviously others do not agree. We'll see ...

I agree with what you say, up to a point. If the Android platform looked like it would provide a good ROI, I feel more than one major developer would have developed for that platform as well. So far, only Garmin really has done so. I think they are the only one with the resources to support both platforms. Of the hardware developers, it seems only Garmin has gone dual platform. Stratus and Bad Elf are, so far, only support the iPad. I'm pretty sure at least some of them look at the Android situation periodically. That 60% market share for the end of 2012 for iPads is also a pretty big factor in their decision too; the other 40% is divided into some good and...not so good Android products which will require a disproportionate overhead to support.

 

[denverpilot]

Who says Garmin is making a profit on it?

 

[airdale]

Were I a small developer staking my livelihood on a small market like the Android aviation market, I wouldn't bother with it if there was already an 800-pound gorilla in the room.

ROFL. You would rather choose a whole building already filled with gorillas and other aggressive animals?

Garmin clearly has the greatest investment capacity of any of the players, but after that I can't list very many strengths. They were late to market. They are oriented to selling proprietary hardware, hence you can use any ADS-B receiver with Pilot as long as it says Garmin on the box. They are not dedicated to the product like a ForeFlight or Hilton are. Garmin has many other fish frying, including an existential threat in automotive GPS hardware. And, it's a large corporation. The newly-purchased developers might be pulling the occasional all-nighter right now, but eventually they will either become 8AM-5PM type corporate guys or they will leave. As an example of corporate-think, I've been told that they have no external beta program. All testing is done in-house. That is a recipe for stagnation. In a sense, their corporate strength is also their weakness.

So, I don't think that Garmin will be a pushover on either platform but neither will they be dominant over the long run. On iThings, I'd predict a two-digit share but under 30%. On Android, who knows? It depends on how many people eventually crash their party.

 

[Cap'n Jack]

Who says Garmin is making a profit on it?

They may not be. But, IMO, they are the only one with the resources to sustain a short-term loss in the hopes of greater profits later if the Android market share increases. They can use this period to work the bugs out of sir software, but this is just all guesses on my part.

 

[JohnAJohnson]

Bought a 7 inch android tablet because an ipad was too big for the cockpit. Apple didn't come up with their mini pad till they started to feel Android pressure. Been running Avilution AviationMaps for years, and it works great. Interfaces with my ADS-B receiver, Zaon XRX, etc.

Even if I were to buy today, I might buy an ipad but would not spend a cent on Foreflight. I don't think much of a business that tries to force my loyalty with expensive hardware that will work with nothing else. I refer to Stratus, which will also not work with anything but Foreflight. This agreement was made to benefit the businesses, and to the detriment of the customer. Such exclusive agreements in the past have allowed software and hardware quality and features to slip, while still retaining customers because no one wants to abandon their expensive single-use-only hardware device.

If you believe a stable, fixed platform is the future, why are we not using Comodore 64s or TI 99s as desktop computers today?

If you can't see why you should program for a device gaining in market share, and with limited aviation titles, you can't see opportunity, and will fall by the wayside like so many other risk averse programmers. Bill Gates didn't limit development for CPM just because those were the machines that everyone owned.

 

[jesse]

Bought a 7 inch android tablet because an ipad was too big for the cockpit. Apple didn't come up with their mini pad till they started to feel Android pressure. Been running Avilution AviationMaps for years, and it works great. Interfaces with my ADS-B receiver, Zaon XRX, etc.

Even if I were to buy today, I might buy an ipad but would not spend a cent on Foreflight. I don't think much of a business that tries to force my loyalty with expensive hardware that will work with nothing else. I refer to Stratus, which will also not work with anything but Foreflight. This agreement was made to benefit the businesses, and to the detriment of the customer. Such exclusive agreements in the past have allowed software and hardware quality and features to slip, while still retaining customers because no one wants to abandon their expensive single-use-only hardware device.

If you believe a stable, fixed platform is the future, why are we not using Comodore 64s or TI 99s as desktop computers today?

If you can't see why you should program for a device gaining in market share, and with limited aviation titles, you can't see opportunity, and will fall by the wayside like so many other risk averse programmers. Bill Gates didn't limit development for CPM just because those were the machines that everyone owned.

Take a look at Apple's marketshare in the desktop operating system over the last 15 years to now.

 

[Cap'n Jack]

Bought a 7 inch android tablet because an ipad was too big for the cockpit. Apple didn't come up with their mini pad till they started to feel Android pressure. Been running Avilution AviationMaps for years, and it works great. Interfaces with my ADS-B receiver, Zaon XRX, etc.

I Forgot about them.

Even if I were to buy today, I might buy an ipad but would not spend a cent on Foreflight. I don't think much of a business that tries to force my loyalty with expensive hardware that will work with nothing else. I refer to Stratus, which will also not work with anything but Foreflight. This agreement was made to benefit the businesses, and to the detriment of the customer. Such exclusive agreements in the past have allowed software and hardware quality and features to slip, while still retaining customers because no one wants to abandon their expensive single-use-only hardware device.

There's also SageTech, which works with a variety of programs on the iPad. The Bad Elf products also work with a number of aviation products on the iPad besides ForeFlight, which isn't the only game on the iPad. A similar situation arises with Garmin, whose hardware only works with their software AFAIK.

If you believe a stable, fixed platform is the future, why are we not using Comodore 64s or TI 99s as desktop computers today?

I don't believe anyone meant it that way- those were very consistent products in a way that Android isn't, at least not yet. Those aren't a comparison to the market today.

If you can't see why you should program for a device gaining in market share, and with limited aviation titles, you can't see opportunity, and will fall by the wayside like so many other risk averse programmers. Bill Gates didn't limit development for CPM just because those were the machines that everyone owned.

Bill initially sent IBM to Digital Research; they blew it so IBM came back to MicroSoft, who then bought DOS from Seattle Computer Products. The Android market isn't a device, it's a whole bunch of devices of which some are very good and some aren't with some manufacturer's variation in the operating system.

 

[LDJones]

I've been told that they have no external beta program. All testing is done in-house. That is a recipe for stagnation. In a sense, their corporate strength is also their weakness.

I can tell you that is NOT true.

 

[LDJones]

Take a look at Apple's marketshare in the desktop operating system over the last 15 years to now.

15 years ago they were almost dead.

 

[LDJones]

bill initially sent IBM to Digital Research; they blew it so IBM came back to MicroSoft, who then. Bought DOS from Seattle Computer Products.

Well, they didn't really blow it. They had the top dog product at the time and they wanted top dollar for it.....$60 a copy if I recall. IBM said okay. Gates bought DOS and licensed it for 60 cents a copy. When IBM PCs hit the shelves IBM gave you a choice of OSes, either CP/M for $360 or DOS for $60. The rest is history.

 

[John221us]

Take a look at Apple's marketshare in the desktop operating system over the last 15 years to now.

Apple has always been niche, with a strong loyalty from artists and musicians (originally due to the apps). I remember a graphic designer who worked for me insisted I buy him a Mac, even though all our corporate apps wouldn't run on it. He tried to tell me the that color matching in the Adobe suite wasn't as accurate on the PC platform. He really believed this.

 

[airdale]

I can tell you that is NOT true.

I dunno. That's what Russ @ Garmin told me when I offered to beta test for them. I beta tested for one of the big Windows flight planners for maybe 5 years before the iPad came along and wiped them all out, so I thought that testing for Garmin would be an interesting follow-on.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

ROFL. You would rather choose a whole building already filled with gorillas and other aggressive animals?

No, I'd choose a market where I could become one of the gorillas rather than a market where I'd have to get beat up by the big gorilla and try to fight for a tiny slice of the pie.

EDIT: For clarity's sake, what I mean is that I would not develop a new EFB product for either Android or iOS right now. Early on, ForeFlight and Hilton and a couple others that have fallen by the wayside jumped on the iOS market in a hurry, and I think ForeFlight and Hilton have done very well because they didn't have to fight with a company that has the resources nor the "corporate inertia" of Garmin. They brought excellent products to market in a short time frame and have been very successful. Had Garmin jumped in first, chances are they would not have been as successful, and/or they'd have had a much tougher road to success.

They are not dedicated to the product like a ForeFlight or Hilton are.

And that is why ForeFlight and WingX are superior products. However, only Garmin has the size to be able to take a big swing and potentially miss in the Android market while still remaining competitive in the iOS market.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Even if I were to buy today, I might buy an ipad but would not spend a cent on Foreflight. I don't think much of a business that tries to force my loyalty with expensive hardware that will work with nothing else. I refer to Stratus, which will also not work with anything but Foreflight. This agreement was made to benefit the businesses, and to the detriment of the customer. Such exclusive agreements in the past have allowed software and hardware quality and features to slip, while still retaining customers because no one wants to abandon their expensive single-use-only hardware device.

The "agreement" you speak of does not exist. Both companies independently chose to follow the current path. The Stratus is not closed or locked down in any way except their API is not publicly documented. Appareo chose not to document the API because they do not have the resources to dedicate to supporting many developers. ForeFlight has so far chosen to spend their development resources on new features rather than supporting more devices, and as a ForeFlight user I'd rather be stuck with the Stratus for now and get more features than have them spend time working on supporting multiple devices.

I do want them both to eventually branch out, though, and I've voiced my opinion to both frequently. First off, as a Stratus owner I would really like it if my other aviation apps like CloudAhoy and Xavion would work with the Stratus. (They could, but they'd have to reverse-engineer the API.) As a loyal ForeFlight user and not-entirely-happy Stratus customer (I've had issues with the charging of the Stratus), I'd like to see ForeFlight support at least one alternative unit as well, though right now the Stratus 2 is priced well below the equivalent competition.

But, don't avoid ForeFlight because of some nonexistent exclusivity agreement between them that you've cooked up in your head. There is no such thing.

 

[LDJones]

I dunno. That's what Russ @ Garmin told me when I offered to beta test for them. I beta tested for one of the big Windows flight planners for maybe 5 years before the iPad came along and wiped them all out, so I thought that testing for Garmin would be an interesting follow-on.

Perhaps it's a recent change, but there are definitely external testers.

 

[rich0]

Most apps (of all types) are software only that may connect to the internet as their contact with the rest of the world, and these can be pretty much platform independent. Aviation apps are one of the few that interact with outside hardware (external GPS, ADS B receivers, etc). It's much easier to write for something that is stable (no OS customizations) and has consistant hardware.

These devices all use bluetooth. The OS handles the pairing, and likely exposes the device as a serial port. You call the API to open the port, you write data out, and read data back in. That's basically how most simple hardware interfaces have worked since the 70s, and writing software to interface with these kinds of devices has been virtually identical on every OS since then. You don't even have much choice in this design on either iOS or Android - there are only so many types of bluetooth devices that are recognized by the OS (or even defined by the spec), and a serial interface is the most generic.

Keep in mind that none of the devices in the 70s had 1/10th the CPU or IO as a modern phone. They would have had no trouble keeping up with parsing a GPS or ADS/B feed (well, maybe the weather would have been problematic depending on data rate). They certainly couldn't display moving maps in HD resolution, but neither GPS nor ADS/B is particularly data-intensive. A full position/orientation/velocity report is only 9 numbers, and an ADS/B broadcast is something like 20-30 chars (anybody who has messed around with SDR to intercept them has probably seen them raw).

Having said that, I really don't know how Garmin does it- they may have some sort of program that runs that explains whether the device it is downloaded into is able to run the program.

You write your software, and you look at the minimum API version required to run it, and put that in the application manifest. If your device doesn't meet the requirements it doesn't show up in the market. That covers it from an API compatibility standpoint.

Really odd format devices can cause issues with displays or expose GUI interface bugs. Really slow devices might have issues with update rates. If somebody downloads your app and it goes really slow like every single other app they run, they will likely perceive that the problem is that they bought a $70 tablet and not that your app doesn't work. If they don't, well, whatever. Chances are that somebody buying a tablet for use in aviation is going to buy a reasonably decent one - you can get a Nexus 7 for $220 that will outperform virtually any tablet on the market.

As far as supporting both platforms goes - the key there is to modularize your code and put the bulk of it in functions that don't make API calls. Granted, getting optimum performance that way is a bit trickier - you end up spending quite a bit of time optimizing either platform. It certainly takes work to equally support multiple platforms - which is why the Garmin Android has been playing catch-up (they obviously share the codebase between the teams, but they don't coordinate releases between them).