Drop Zone to Centerline in 2 minutes.

Davecat said:
Came across this video on AVweb. I am a total newbie, hoping to start PPL lessons soon. How would you characterise this pilots maneuver? Skilled or reckless?

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=20a_1355531018
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Welcome, and that's a crazy video. What I can't figure out is why an old video is suddenly popping up everywhere, especially on this site.

I'd personally call it skilled, as he's obviously done it a lot, as there's many videos of him out there. He's also very careful of keeping tabs on his meat-bombs and staying away from them.
 
Very few pilots fly their machines to the edge of the performance envelope. Obviously this guy flies this profile many times a day and has it down. There is little room for error as he nears the pattern, and that is where the safety margin narrows, but as long as nothing falls off he has the energy to make the landing even if he loses an engine. In the meat bomb business time is money.
 
From this point forward, using that song as "dramatic" music for your video is hereby prohibited unless your name happens to be Jeb Corliss.
 
For the most part looks like he was just doing an emergency descent for altitude loss. He definitely was definitely keeping an eye out for meat bombs. He entered the pattern on a 45. Looked like he was talking. Hopefully, position reports. He definitely has made that landing many times before. To a new pilot, that is a pretty extreme and exciting landing. Also, a landing that requires everything to be working properly.

Thank you for the video.


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Yawn, another a day dropping jumpers. Used to tell the folks that wanted to chicken out that the plane ride down is worse. And folks just because something is different then the King videos doesn't mean it is illegal and/or reckless.
 
The guys flying the King Air at my airport routinely do descents like that minus the dramatic steep turns 100 feet off the deck. I really don't see any need for those maneuvers, they don't seem to have any problem maintaining a steep descent profile right to the numbers. If your intent is to get down and turned around in a timely manner why would you descend to such a low altitude that far from the runway and traveling in the wrong direction?

I'll stop short of calling it "reckless" though.
 
Typical flight profile for turbine jump pilots. On a busy summer day, if the jump pilot doesn't get back on the ground quickly to turn the next load, they won't get all the loads done it time before sunset to finish all the tandems that were scheduled for the day. I think our record this past season was 32 loads in one day (single King Air).

Honestly I think I was on 12 of those loads with tandems and students...

Andy
 
Just a guy who knows how to fly his machine. Don't be a hater!

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flyingcheesehead said:
And as long as he entered the pattern on a 45, everything else is okay. :rofl:
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Everything else was OK. It was pointing out during this fast descent, he didn't just drop into the pattern.

Haters gonna hate.



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Since it apparently happened in Brazil, I think "illegal" is a whole 'mother question. Anyone up on the Brazilian FARs? :D
 
Silvaire said:
There are 12 posts in this thread and this is the second time I've seen this mentioned.

Where's the "hate"?
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The response seemed a bit taken out of context, and a bit coarse. Thus my response.


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That is certainly an exciting looking landing. It looks like he's done that a million times. Hopefully he never makes a mistake....
 
I would imagine that the steep bank at the end is to bleed off speed... If you watch the video from outside you can see that he makes a wheel landing and rolls quite a ways down the runway.
He's an accomplished meat bomber... Doesn't look extreme to me.

Not something that's learned until you've got plenty of time and have practiced being on the edge maneuvers at altitude
 
After finding the videos of this as videoed from outside the plane. There was times he was taxiing pretty quickly down the taxi way with a bunch of meat bombs walking on by. He may have been a bit on the edge here as meat bombs prove to not be the smartest people after departing a perfectly good airplane. I think this is where he should ere a little more into caution around all these people walking on by.

Side note: Has a plane ever gone by a meat bomb carrying their chute, and opened up the chute sending them on a not so joyous joyride?
 
Anyone a jump pilot or do similar flying? (necessitating quick descents in a piston)
I'm wondering about descending a 182 in a slip at (or above) Va? Others do it, and vsi pegged at 2k, but I'm worried about the vertical stabilizer. It wasn't tested or certified to withstand that... And the common definition I've found on Va is 'no abrupt or full deflections of flight control surfaces above this speed'. And FAA has actually came out saying there is no guarantee the flight control surfaces will stay attached when doing abrupt or full deflections in more than one axis.
Any thoughts on slipping at or above Va (with 60+ deg bank)?
 
There's a guy who works out of Deland, FL for a skydive company that does just about the same thing. Most impressive flying I've ever seen, and he always accommodated and coordinated with other traffic. Would love to shake his hand!
 
MDeitch1976 said:
After finding the videos of this as videoed from outside the plane. There was times he was taxiing pretty quickly down the taxi way with a bunch of meat bombs walking on by. He may have been a bit on the edge here as meat bombs prove to not be the smartest people after departing a perfectly good airplane. I think this is where he should ere a little more into caution around all these people walking on by.

Side note: Has a plane ever gone by a meat bomb carrying their chute, and opened up the chute sending them on a not so joyous joyride?
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You don't like skydivers, eh? What is your issue?
 
No body wants to touch my questions eh? Ya it's a hot potato..
 
I did something like this once that was variously described as crazy, reckless, and impossible.
 
Give me a break. Totally reckless.

Obviously he's highly skilled also, knows his airplane well, and is a bit of a badass . . . and those are three laudable traits, probably among others.

But flying like that leaves no margin for error. And since we all make errors, it is a just a matter of time until things going awry. I hope this was just a one-off thing for the pilot and not par for the course, since he seems like a cool dude worth keeping around.
 
Tommy3 said:
Give me a break. Totally reckless.
.
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It is SOP for the work he is doing, seen it done thousands of times without incident. Fun being last out and watching the plane pass you. Flying isn't all airliners and EAA pancake flights. Tomorrow dropzones all over the world will operate like that from sunup to sundown, happy flying people having fun.
 
ClimbnSink said:
It is SOP for the work he is doing, seen it done thousands of times without incident. Fun being last out and watching the plane pass you. Flying isn't all airliners and EAA pancake flights. Tomorrow dropzones all over the world will operate like that from sunup to sundown, happy flying people having fun.
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Even if you were right about all that, and I do not think that you are, it would still be totally reckless. Even if it were SOP (it's not), and "done thousands of times" (unlikely; he seems unusually skilled), and "fun", "happy flying people", it's still reckless. There is a time and a place to fly like that, and it's definitely not when you're dropping off skydivers over friendly soil.
 
Tommy3 said:
Even if you were right about all that, and I do not think that you are, it would still be totally reckless. Even if it were SOP (it's not), and "done thousands of times" (unlikely; he seems unusually skilled), and "fun", "happy flying people", it's still reckless. There is a time and a place to fly like that, and it's definitely not when you're dropping off skydivers over friendly soil.
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Your aviation ignorance is showing.
 
Tommy3 said:
Even if you were right about all that, and I do not think that you are, it would still be totally reckless. Even if it were SOP (it's not), and "done thousands of times" (unlikely; he seems unusually skilled), and "fun", "happy flying people", it's still reckless. There is a time and a place to fly like that, and it's definitely not when you're dropping off skydivers over friendly soil.
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ClimbnSink said:
Your aviation ignorance is showing.
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Tommy3 said:
It's certainly possible that I'm wrong. Tell me how.
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OK, it *IS* SOP for "diver drivers" to pretty much fall out of the sky, and to beat the jumpers to the ground. I've seen it done at quite a few different drop zones, both from the ground and from my airplane. The only thing that may not be SOP for all of them is the "traffic pattern" at such a low altitude.

I don't think he seems unusually skilled, and I don't think it's particularly reckless. Tommy, maybe you could point out what you think *IS* reckless/dangerous about this? Do you have a suggestion for a better technique?
 
Whether it is SOP or not, explain to me how what he is doing, is reckless.
 
Tommy3 said:
It's certainly possible that I'm wrong. Tell me how.
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See my post #3. That airplane was under complete control and within dynamic and load limits for the entire flight. I have never flown skydivers, but for a good portion of my life I flew the machines I was assigned to the very limits of their performance envelope to accomplish the tasks assigned. To some it may have seemed reckless, in reality it was performing to a very high standard. There is a difference.
 
People love to throw careless and reckless around when a type of flying falls outside of the realm of their own type of flying, and few things drive me more nuts.
 
Impressive, I hope to be that skilled someday.
 
Inverted said:
People love to throw careless and reckless around when a type of flying falls outside of the realm of their own type of flying, and few things drive me more nuts.
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What's cool is not safe. What's safe is not cool:lol:
 
Threefingeredjack said:
See my post #3. That airplane was under complete control and within dynamic and load limits for the entire flight. I have never flown skydivers, but for a good portion of my life I flew the machines I was assigned to the very limits of their performance envelope to accomplish the tasks assigned. To some it may have seemed reckless, in reality it was performing to a very high standard. There is a difference.
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No question that he has mastery of the airplane. Very admirable. That's not what I criticize. What I criticize is flying the airplane without any margin for error; not following proper pattern procedures; skimming treetops unnecessarily; and so on. There are lots of pilots who can do what you see in this video (although not I), but it's not a question of "can", it's a question of "should".
 
Inverted said:
People love to throw careless and reckless around when a type of flying falls outside of the realm of their own type of flying, and few things drive me more nuts.
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Strange that this would drive you nuts. One thing I have found in my brief foray into Internet message boards is that people have the weirdest priorities.
 
Tommy3 said:
No question that he has mastery of the airplane. Very admirable. That's not what I criticize. What I criticize is flying the airplane without any margin for error; not following proper pattern procedures; skimming treetops unnecessarily; and so on. There are lots of pilots who can do what you see in this video (although not I), but it's not a question of "can", it's a question of "should".
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So we should not allow others to do things that you can't do?

I'm gonna suggest that maybe you shouldn't do those things if you aren't comfortable with them, and let that be the end of it.
 
He isn't doing anything out of the ordinary as far as skills. Mastery of the airplane? He knows the airplane just like everyone should. Proper pattern? About the only thing I can see is his excessive bank in the pattern.
 
Tommy3 said:
Strange that this would drive you nuts. One thing I have found in my brief foray into Internet message boards is that people have the weirdest priorities.
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How is this a priority? It isn't my priority that it drives me nuts. I just can't stand ignorant pilots who will instantaneously call anything reckless that they don't understand or cannot do. Is aerobatic flying reckless? Is bush flying reckless?
 
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