Drug testing on FAA third class medical?

bbchien said:
Uh, no. This is a federal administration, and under federal law the stuff is still illegal.

That's an affadavit. They really can go after you for lying to a federal offical. Seriously, dude.....that's how they got Martha Stewart.
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not to mention those questions are worded so ambiguously:rolleyes:. Phrases like "have you ever... ?" How many ways can that be spun ?
 
Five pages, we may as well take this sucker off the rails right here and now.

For the most part the people who are harping about government being too big, powerful and controlling, a government that shouldn't be involved in health care or the welfare of the population in general is the same government they believe should be busting through your bedroom door at 4 am with full riot gear and 3 big white letters on the backs of their black shirts to jack you up, bust you up and lock you up for growing a weed in your back yard and smoking it.

Where's that bag of popcorn?
 
I think one thing we all can agree on. We have millions of Americans smoking this stuff. They spend billions on this stuff.

Its time we stop sending that money to the Cartels and we keep that money at home. We will never stop people from using this. No matter how many homes they bust in the door, people are going to smoke this.

I would prefer to see someone smoke this stuff then drink Alcohol. I have lost so many close friends and family to liver problems from alcohol, they really need to make alcohol illegal for this is the worse of the two evils.

Fly Smart
 
JHW said:
who would have thought the line between pothead and upstanding citizen would become so blurred
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You have no idea how many " Upstanding Citizens" I have met whom smoke pot, from our own goverment to CEO's of compnies.

I went with a friend on a chartered bus to the boats in St.Louis to gamble. This was put on by a local bar or tavern.

We are heading down the road when two girls get up and head to the bathroom. They open the bathroom door and ask me for a lighter. I give them one. They shut the door. The man setting next to me said, those two are state cops.

They get done in the bathroom and exit. Hand me my lighter then anounce to everyone they smell pot and are going to search everyone. Everyone laughs and they set down.

Come to find out that bus was loaded with police whom attained that bar. I never go out much and never went to that bar so I knew none of them until that day.
 
When I was young I lived down the street from a congress man. He smoked pot. I was the only person whom I knew that he let know he smoked this stuff.

I met this girl whom had ran way from home. I let her stay in my room and I slept in the basement. When this man found out, lets just say he was a very nice person to me and became a very good friend. This was his neice. He invited me into his home and we became friends. This is how I got close to this man.

I still today think about that young girl and wonder if she made it in life.

Fly Smart
 
Make alcohol illegal? Nah they tried that in the movies and it didn't work.
 
As far as overdosing on pot, it has never directly happened in the history of man. Every drug has an LD50, which is the amount necessary for lethal results in 50% of test subjects. The LD50 for cannabis is 1:30,000. This means you would have to consume approx. 15,000 pounds of high grade in 15 minutes to actually overdose from THC, which is of course, impossible to do. Play nice kids...
 
As for the high and mighty smoking pot, I know a famous airshow pilot... Drugs are bad mmmkay, but as I said before parts of the middle class are the only ones who abstain.
 
So here we have a thread going on 127 post concerning whether the pros and cons of marijuana. I realize some of wish we were 18 again and some of us are still 18, but as other have said it is against FAA regs. Flying is a privilege in this country. You do not have to fly to live, but if you want to fly you have to follow the regulations set up by the FAA. You chose to agree to this when you signed up to learn to fly. The regulations are not secret, nor are they ambiguous, they in fact are quite clear. Unless the FAA decides otherwise, if you want to fly then do not smoke marijuana, if you want to smoke marijuana, then do not fly. Any discussion about the merits of marijuana, whether you can or cannot OD on marijuana, whether marijuana should be legal, whether marijuana is safe, whether marijuana makes you lazy, fat, and unproductive, etc is just flotsam, and probably would be better discussed in the spin zone.
 
How many people in America do you think smoke this. One million? One billion?

What I do not understand is how someone can label every person whom uses this as potheads. That would be like me labeling everyone whom has a beer a drunk.

I thought we are looking for change in this day and age. When you speak of a group of people and label them anything you just stepped back in time and you took us all with you.

Fly Smart
 
I don't touch the stuff. But I have to laugh at you, with your attitude flying is doomed. Anyone who tells you something is a privilege has or wants to put a boot on your neck. Keep following all the rules man and you will be free.:goofy::lol::rofl:
douglas393 said:
So here we have a thread going on 127 post concerning whether the pros and cons of marijuana. I realize some of wish we were 18 again and some of us are still 18, but as other have said it is against FAA regs. Flying is a privilege in this country. You do not have to fly to live, but if you want to fly you have to follow the regulations set up by the FAA. You chose to agree to this when you signed up to learn to fly. The regulations are not secret, nor are they ambiguous, they in fact are quite clear. Unless the FAA decides otherwise, if you want to fly then do not smoke marijuana, if you want to smoke marijuana, then do not fly. Any discussion about the merits of marijuana, whether you can or cannot OD on marijuana, whether marijuana should be legal, whether marijuana is safe, whether marijuana makes you lazy, fat, and unproductive, etc is just flotsam, and probably would be better discussed in the spin zone.
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douglas393 said:
Unless the FAA decides otherwise, if you want to fly then do not smoke marijuana, if you want to smoke marijuana, then do not fly.
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I would amend that to "don't fly during periods when you might be under the influence of tetrahydrocannabinol". 8 hours from joint to point, or something like that.

I must point out that THC is a very sticky molecule, and will stick to your clothes, skin, hair and various assorted pets. It also persists in the blood stream for some time. Thus if you have an active habit be aware that any drug screen worth it's salt will sniff you out quite easily. And the FAA won't care one bit how long ago you imbibed.
 
steingar said:
I would amend that to "don't fly during periods when you might be under the influence of tetrahydrocannabinol". 8 hours from joint to point, or something like that.

I must point out that THC is a very sticky molecule, and will stick to your clothes, skin, hair and various assorted pets. It also persists in the blood stream for some time. Thus if you have an active habit be aware that any drug screen worth it's salt will sniff you out quite easily. And the FAA won't care one bit how long ago you imbibed.
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its amazing how many guys would be scraping their bongs after they ran out and smoke the sticky resin that was left after an ounce or 3. So I guess it is pretty 'sticky'
 
1600vw said:
I thought we are looking for change in this day and age. When you speak of a group of people and label them anything you just stepped back in time and you took us all with you.
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I'd vote for a change, away from the pot-smoking belly-aching status quo and instead into an age of personal responsibility.
 
ClimbnSink said:
I don't touch the stuff. But I have to laugh at you, with your attitude flying is doomed. Anyone who tells you something is a privilege has or wants to put a boot on your neck. Keep following all the rules man and you will be free.:goofy::lol::rofl:
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Okay then lets take away all the rules, and let anyone who wants to fly fly, no matter what condition they are in or whether or not they even know how to fly. My point is fairly simple. Marijuana ia against the rules of the FAA. When you chose to learn to fly, you agreed to follow those rules. I do not get to pick which rules I want to follow, and get to pick only to follow the ones which are convenient to me. I follow the rules, and if I chose to break a rule, I then better be ready to accept the consequences of that action I chose to do. This has nothing to do with my personal feelings on what should or not should be done about the marijuana issues in this country. This has everything to being an adult in modern society. If I do not like it I certainly have the right to complain(at least for the time being in America), but still have to follow the rules. I can try to change the rules, but unless they are changed I have to follow them, or face the consequences of chosing not to follow them. If that is a bad attitude, and dooms my flying career, well then I guess I will have to waste my leisure time with boating, photography, and posting on non aviation forums.
 
steingar said:
8 hours from joint to point, or something like that.
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As phraseology is concerned I think it is hard to top the rhyme of "toke to yoke".

Past scientific studies have indicated measurable impairment up to 24 hours after consumption so 8 hours is probably not sufficient. Waiting at least 48 hours is probably prudent if you want to be safe. Also notable was the fact that at 24 hours while there was performance impairment none of the subjects were self aware of their impairment. This is a good summary of the current state of research: http://www.skybrary.aero/bookshelf/books/1108.pdf

And the FAA won't care one bit how long ago you imbibed.
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Yup, unlike the NTSB the FAA doesn't care how long it has been.

Given the amount of time and money you need to invest for Private Pilot it seems prudent to set aside recreational use of cannabis entirely, unless it becomes legalized and regulated at the federal level and OK'd by the FAA with an abstention period like alcohol or other impairing medications. I suspect this will happen in my lifetime but who knows (and I'm on the younger end of people on the board). Recently the percentage of Americans who support marijuana legalization topped 50% so those who think it should be illegal are actually in the minority now.
 
JHW said:
I'd vote for a change, away from the pot-smoking belly-aching status quo and instead into an age of personal responsibility.
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Me too. But do you think the OP has shown personal responsibility?

Skyscraper said:
As far as overdosing on pot, it has never directly happened in the history of man. Every drug has an LD50, which is the amount necessary for lethal results in 50% of test subjects. The LD50 for cannabis is 1:30,000. This means you would have to consume approx. 15,000 pounds of high grade in 15 minutes to actually overdose from THC, which is of course, impossible to do. Play nice kids...
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Aah... just add an aeroplane to that and the LD50 becomes less than half a joint.
 
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douglas393 said:
Okay then lets take away all the rules, and let anyone who wants to fly fly, no matter what condition they are in
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That's basically what we have now. If you don't care about keeping insurance coverage you can do whatever you want.
 
spinfire said:
Yup, unlike the NTSB the FAA doesn't care how long it has been.
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According to post #12, the FAA medical application says two years, unless there was a failed drug test or it rose to the level of substance dependence.
 
douglas393 said:
Okay then lets take away all the rules, and let anyone who wants to fly fly, no matter what condition they are in or whether or not they even know how to fly.
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That would not necessarily be a consequence of considering flying to be a right. Not even the right to freedom of speech is considered by the courts to be absolute, as illustrated by the "shouting fire in a crowded theater" example. And in Shapiro v. Thompson, even though the court referred to travel as a right, they allowed for the possibility of reasonable restrictions.
 
Palmpilot said:
According to post #12, the FAA medical application says two years, unless there was a failed drug test or it rose to the level of substance dependence.
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Yes, it does. But I was contrasting the FAA and NTSB on the time scale of possible detection in blood and urine. The NTSB seems to not consider evidence of cannabis consumption a probable cause of an accident if it has been consumed more than about 24-48 hours prior. But the FAA (and maybe your insurance company) will care about this. There is no evidence that cannabis consumption can be detected in the urine or blood after a year or two or even six months.
 
I smoked pot when I was younger, and then I grew up....
 
Was curious what folks thought about the relationship to smoking and short term memory loss. True? False? Impact to flying?
 
focal_plane said:
Was curious what folks thought about the relationship to smoking and short term memory loss. True? False? Impact to flying?
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I'd love to say it makes you stupid (I think it did my brother, something did), but some of the brightest people I ever knew smoked on a regular basis. Then again, maybe they were that much brighter before I knew them.
 
focal_plane said:
Was curious what folks thought about the relationship to smoking and short term memory loss. True? False? Impact to flying?
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Pot doesn't make people stupid, eating potato chips makes people stupid.:wink2:
Most research is going to be politically minded lest future funding vaporize.
 
Palmpilot said:
According to post #12, the FAA medical application says two years, unless there was a failed drug test or it rose to the level of substance dependence.
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It's funny how they consider it okay if you have used an illegal substance as long as it was two years ago. Explain the logic that was used to construct that rule. :dunno:
 
Silvaire said:
It's funny how they consider it okay if you have used an illegal substance as long as it was two years ago. Explain the logic that was used to construct that rule. :dunno:
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How long do you want it to go back? How long does it take before you can consider something in someone's past? Two years of not doing it is a pretty long time. But more to the point, what's the benefit of trying bust up some guy who smoked pot years ago but no longer does (provided there were no other issues related to past use)?

There'd be a lot less pilots (or at least a lot more who've lied on the medical form) if it was 'have you ever used an illegal substance'.
 
\__[Ô]__/;1115904 said:
How long do you want it to go back? How long does it take before you can consider something in someone's past? Two years of not doing it is a pretty long time. But more to the point, what's the benefit of trying bust up some guy who smoked pot years ago but no longer does (provided there were no other issues related to past use)?

There'd be a lot less pilots (or at least a lot more who've lied on the medical form) if it was 'have you ever used an illegal substance'.
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Some jobs (e.g. Law Enforcement) want to know if you EVER used. They even want the year and month. There are also probably a hundred other "Have You Ever" asked through the application process. :yes:
 
Corpsmaide said:
Some jobs (e.g. Law Enforcement) want to know if you EVER used. They even want the year and month. There are also probably a hundred other "Have You Ever" asked through the application process. :yes:
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They also don't auto disqualify you for a yes to a "have you ever"
 
Skylane81E said:
They also don't auto disqualify you for a yes to a "have you ever"
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Depends on what they ask and how recent.

But, I do agree many of the questions are not auto dis qualifiers. Just want honest answers, get caught hiding anything and then you will be disqualified. :yes:
 
Corpsmaide said:
Depends on what they ask and how recent.

But, I do agree many of the questions are not auto dis qualifiers. Just want honest answers, get caught hiding anything and then you will be disqualified. :yes:
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Yep, very few cops have spotless pasts, and as such most departments just ask that the past be your past. Besides a cop who was on the wrong side in his youth could prove to be an asset rather than a liability!
 
\__[Ô]__/;1115904 said:
How long do you want it to go back? How long does it take before you can consider something in someone's past? Two years of not doing it is a pretty long time. But more to the point, what's the benefit of trying bust up some guy who smoked pot years ago but no longer does (provided there were no other issues related to past use)?
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My point is why is the question even asked? As far as I'm concerned if you haven't operated an aircraft under the influence of any intoxicant what business is it of the FAA's? The way it's written is kind of like an employment application that asks "have you robbed a house within the past two years?

WTF?
 
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