Drug testing on FAA third class medical?

Geico266 said:
I did not know it was mandatory! I thought my ME had a crush on me. :redface:


;)
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Nope. Perfectly normal...as long as there's only one hand on your shoulder :yikes:

In all seriousness, I just don't see how anyone has the time to waste getting stoned (or whatever) past their teens. I can barely get all my crap done when I'm sober.
 
N801BH said:
Hmmm..

President Bill Clinton smoked Pot and Barack Obama did Cocaine. Never kept them from getting a government job...:no:.......
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Hell, the Former Governor of my state (Gary Johnson) was a self described pothead in college.
 
Tommy3 said:
I have no problem with people, in general, smoking weed. And I have some acquaintances who are marijuana users whom I would trust more behind the controls of an airplane (when sober) than some of my straight-laced friends.

That said, I think that the OP needs to understand that becoming a pilot requires, in my view, changing one's entire attitude toward engagement with the world. One must become constantly focused on safety, risk management, the minimization of potentially dangerous behaviors, and self-awareness of one's own strengths and weaknesses.

If the OP is just taking for granted that he can smoke pot recreationally and be a safe pilot, I think it's evidence that he's not adopting a safe mindset for aviation. A good pilot is one who removes potentially dangerous practices from his life and is open and honest about himself.

One could well be a marijuana user and a good pilot, I think. But if one is willing to smoke weed without due consideration for the possible physiological consequences, be unconcerned about breaking the law, solicit information about how to avoid detection, and be willing to lie on official documents, then he does not have the right mindset for aviation. That is what makes him a dangerous pilot.
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As do I. Big empasis on the when sober part. Being a pilot is mostly about judgement, so if somebody got into the cockpit stoned of their a.., then there are bigger issues to be considered than just the drug use alone. You're certaintly not going to find me drinking a couple of beers and then climbing into an airplane and I'd expect the guy who smokes pot to use the same judgement.
 
DavidWhite said:
I just recently had a talk with one of my friends about pot smoking - this person smokes like a chimney, and nothing I said about the ramifications if caught could change their mind.

We are gonna have any impact on this dude either.
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People are responsible for their own actions. I have many friends and family members with drug and alcohol problems and until they are ready to admit they have a problem, it's entirely on them.
 
Its hilarious how the drunk vs pothead threads turn out. The other one last week with the person who had DUI's and everyone seemed so helpful and giving the benefit of the doubt, here someone smokes some dubbage in unknown amount and hasn't had a DUI to speak of and everyones "aww naww, so busted, you're failing your pilot decision making skills" lol
 
Has anyone ever heard of anyone OD'ing from Pot? If you have could you please point me to that article.

I have read of people OD'ing from Asprin, Coffee, Beer, and many many other drugs, but have you every heard of someone OD'ing from Pot.

I just wonder what makes a drug that you can not OD on so bad?

There are people whom use this drug for pain control. If it was not for this drug they would be on something that makes their daily life hard to live. But using pot they can atleast function.

How many of you drink alcohol. That drug has killed more people on our roads then any other drug and I can show you articles on this, this drug needs to be outlawed.



Fly Smart
 
supernovae said:
Its hilarious how the drunk vs pothead threads turn out. The other one last week with the person who had DUI's and everyone seemed so helpful and giving the benefit of the doubt, here someone smokes some dubbage in unknown amount and hasn't had a DUI to speak of and everyones "aww naww, so busted, you're failing your pilot decision making skills" lol
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Not I and I got thoroughly criticized about how mean I was being.
 
1600vw said:
Has anyone ever heard of anyone OD'ing from Pot? If you have could you please point me to that article.

I have read of people OD'ing from Asprin, Coffee, Beer, and many many other drugs, but have you every heard of someone OD'ing from Pot.

I just wonder what makes a drug that you can not OD on so bad?

There are people whom use this drug for pain control. If it was not for this drug they would be on something that makes their daily life hard to live. But using pot they can atleast function.

How many of you drink alcohol. That drug has killed more people on our roads then any other drug and I can show you articles on this, this drug needs to be outlawed.



Fly Smart
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The illegality of marijuana in this country has absolutely nothing to do with its addictive qualities or how dangerous it is. It is illegal because of a political decision made in the early 20th century. If we used the issue of safety as a criteria for legality general aviation would probably be outlawed, because more people have died from GA crashes than from marijuana overdoses.
 
It's interesting to search through NTSB reports for references to THC, marijuana, etc. I did some looking the last time a thread like this came up. They often spell it "marihuana" so to get all of the reports you need to search for that too. The interesting thing to look at is the threshold at which the NTSB considers it a possible factor. If there is a fatal crash the autopsy is generally going to include a blood sample. But based on the concentration it is possible to estimate how long it has been since intake (just like alcohol). Generally unless it has been less than 24-48 hours since the estimated time of intake the NTSB probably cause conclusions will not even mention the fact that THC was detected in the blood. My previous survey of NTSB reports showed that there were more cases where THC was measured as present but not considered a probable cause than those where consumption was considered recent enough to be a probably cause (such as the report someone linked earlier where consumption was an hour prior to flight!).

Personally from an intellectual standpoint I think it should be legalized and regulated (no chance of getting something unpredictable from some sketchy dealer then). And I'd like to see the FAA adopt a reasonable "toke to yoke" regulation based on science. I've read a past study which says that some measurable but slight impairment could be detected up to 48 hours but not beyond (still considerably longer than alcohol). I don't remember where I read this study but IIRC it was done by NASA. For years the federal government has tightly controlled what research can be done with cannabis and that is finally opening up and I support all efforts to quantify a safe time after exposure. It's stupid to restrict scientific research into the effects.

One thing seems very clear to me from reading posts here, the Red Board, and NTSB reports: Alcohol abuse is a much more serious problem among pilots than cannabis.
 
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1600vw said:
You can not OD from Marijuana.

Fly Smart
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Yup.......... But it will cause a pilot to do STUPID things..

Here is a guy, a former F-4 Phantom fighter pilot and a top lawyer for the state of California living the ( carefree) life... Thing Spicoli from Fast Times At Ridgemont High..:eek:..

Anyway he buys a already built 801, the same kinda plane I built... That happened before mine flew for the first time and the details had ALL of the 801 builders scared *****less.......... Till the toxocology reports came back... In a nutshell, he and his daughters boyfriend sat around one afternoon smoking pot......... Then he decided to take the 17 year old kid flying... A few minutes later metal was raining down all over the farm fields. I saw the pics and it was gruesume... Pilot was crushed in the fuselage,, the young kid was found hundreds of yards away.... If you want to get high, go find an island and toke it up, but stay away from ANY motorized toys.... Flying a plane takes TOTAL attention to the task at hand.. You cannot do that while stoned out of your mind.... Darwin and Gravity will conspire to finish you off...:redface:

http://www.ntsb.gov/aviationquery/brief2.aspx?ev_id=20030312X00321&ntsbno=LAX03FA102&akey=1
 
bbchien said:
You're going to have to lie on 18n, which will be the basis of the feds making you wish you had not. You need to reconsider becoming a pilot.
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Stupid question here ... if he were to check "Yes" what happens? Medical denied automatically?
 
N801BH said:
Yup.......... But it will cause a pilot to do STUPID things..

Here is a guy, a former F-4 Phantom fighter pilot and a top lawyer for the state of California living the ( carefree) life... Thing Spicoli from Fast Times At Ridgemont High..:eek:..

Anyway he buys a already built 801, the same kinda plane I built... That happened before mine flew for the first time and the details had ALL of the 801 builders scared *****less.......... Till the toxocology reports came back... In a nutshell, he and his daughters boyfriend sat around one afternoon smoking pot......... Then he decided to take the 17 year old kid flying... A few minutes later metal was raining down all over the farm fields. I saw the pics and it was gruesume... Pilot was crushed in the fuselage,, the young kid was found hundreds of yards away.... If you want to get high, go find an island and toke it up, but stay away from ANY motorized toys.... Flying a plane takes TOTAL attention to the task at hand.. You cannot do that while stoned out of your mind.... Darwin and Gravity will conspire to finish you off...:redface:

http://www.ntsb.gov/aviationquery/brief2.aspx?ev_id=20030312X00321&ntsbno=LAX03FA102&akey=1
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There are way more stories about Alcohol and people getting killed then you will ever find about pot.

But Alcohol is still available to everyone including kids, sure its against the law for them to buy it but they get it.

I could start spouting about all the kids that have been killed in just the last 60 days to alcohol. How about the last year. I lost almost half my class in high school to drinking and driving.

Fly Smart
 
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1600vw said:
...... How about the last year. I lost almost half my class in high school to drinking and driving.

Fly Smart
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Lost HALF your high school class.:hairraise::yikes::eek:... How many kids in your HS class ? 4 :dunno:
 
N801BH said:
Lost HALF your high school class.:hairraise::yikes::eek:... How many kids in your HS class ? 4 :dunno:
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By the time it was over not very many more then that. I believe we had 12 in the class.

That was just my class, we had a few kids killed in some of the other grades to.

It was these mothers whom all got together with other mothers in America and started Mothers Against Drunk Drivers this was 1977 I do believe.

I think of my lost friends everyday and we did not have anyone come and talk with us you got over it.

Fly Smart
 
1600vw said:
You can not OD from Marijuana.

Fly Smart
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The LD50 dose for tetrahydrocannabinols ranges from 800 mg/kg for the psychoactive (delta-9) form to 27.5 mg/kg for the delta-8 isomer.

This translates (for a 200lb person) to 80 g of THC.
 
cherokeeflyboy said:
The LD50 dose for tetrahydrocannabinols ranges from 800 mg/kg for the psychoactive (delta-9) form to 27.5 mg/kg for the delta-8 isomer.

This translates (for a 200lb person) to 80 g of THC.
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You can not OD off Pot, Weed, Grass, whatever you call it. Not if you are smoking it.

If you say you can I would like to see that.

Fly Smart
 
I can search the web and find all sorts of drugs people have OD'ed on. I dare anyone to find one story about someone dieing from OD'ing on pot. You will not find one. Its never happened.

Fly Smart
 
If Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold had been potheads they probably wouldn't have gotten around to getting those propane tanks yet and the Columbine shooting would still be in the preliminary planning stage.
 
1600vw said:
I can search the web and find all sorts of drugs people have OD'ed on. I dare anyone to find one story about someone dieing from OD'ing on pot. You will not find one. Its never happened.

Fly Smart
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Yup, real facts are irrelevant.....you have an actual figure for toxicity. Where do you think that came from?

You can OD on water and oxygen. It would be extraordinary for there to be no toxic limit for THC.

Do your own FN research.
 
MAKG1 said:
Yup, real facts are irrelevant.....you have an actual figure for toxicity. Where do you think that came from?

You can OD on water and oxygen. It would be extraordinary for there to be no toxic limit for THC.

Do your own FN research.
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You do not OD on water you drown. Two different things.

Do your own FN research
 
Show me one case where someone has OD'ed on Pot, weed, smoke ,grass, whatever you call it.

Fly Smart
 
GCA319 said:
People are responsible for their own actions. I have many friends and family members with drug and alcohol problems and until they are ready to admit they have a problem, it's entirely on them.
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Yeah, but I've tried talking to my friend (also a pilot) about the ramifications on their aviation career should they be caught. Seriously, this person is the biggest pothead ever. Wake and bake, as they say.
 
The mayor of New York City had a study done on the effects of this drug. This was back in the early 1900's when the goverment was pushing the refer madness crap.

This study was done by a University, I do not remember the school off my head. But this research showed there was no ill effects of smoking this weed nor was it detrimental in anyway.

The Mayor of New York City at the time wanted this drug made legal and taxed.

Alcohol is a way worse drug then this drug. Its a shame we have people whom are so closed minded that they can not see that it was our own goverment whom wanted this drug removed from our country because of the group of people whom used it.

We did not want those types in our country. I am speaking of the Mexicans. So our goverement made this refer madness craze and made this drug illegal. It was a raciest move on our goverments part to remove the mexicans.

I do not need to research anything. I have already done my research. If you do not believe what I say you research it yourself.

The discovery Channel did a Documentary on this.

Fly Smart
 
DavidWhite said:
Yeah, but I've tried talking to my friend (also a pilot) about the ramifications on their aviation career should they be caught. Seriously, this person is the biggest pothead ever. Wake and bake, as they say.
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From a practical standpoint, they will fall asleep or OD on Funions long before during from pot.
 
1600vw said:
You do not OD on water you drown. Two different things.

Do your own FN research
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No, you can poison yourself from drinking too much water. Not the same as drowning.

I'm starting to wonder if you might be on some of that weed right now. Comprehension seems to be a problem.
 
MAKG1 said:
No, you can poison yourself from drinking too much water. Not the same as drowning.

I'm starting to wonder if you might be on some of that weed right now. Comprehension seems to be a problem.
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So I do not agree with you and you attack me. Just becuase I have never heard of being poisoned by drinking to much water. You must have to drink a lot of water. I drink gallons everyday. I drink nothing but water.

So you go ahead and be the bully you are and attack people like myself whom are just giving an opinoin.

I do not have a Comprehension problem, I just do not agree with you. But I see you can not handle that.

Again show me one case where someone died from od'ing on pot then you can call me anything you want.

Fly Smart
 
Some harvard prof released a study saying pot use had no long term detrimental effects but pot users tended to be more depressed. Jeard him in an interview it was funny the just say no people were ****ed at him and the potheads for being labeled depressed were also ****ed at him. Whatever the truth is itlikely isn't reflected in public policy or politicized medicine.
 
Old Geek said:
Ever take someone else's prescription medication?
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omg . . . not me. But - lets just say someone I am very close to.

Gets a new job. Job requires a drug test. Night before the drug test, they can't sleep so they take a lorazepam. Not mine either. Not theirs either. An Rx for someone else in the house. She did not ask me before she took it - I would have told her no, given the drug test. The Test is on a Wed. They, er we, are leaving for a weekend away over a long weekend that Saturday.

She signs off the on the test and goes in and pees. And then calls me. "Will they be able to tell I took a lorazepam?"

I"m like - huh? You did what?

So I spend the next 10 min explaining the 5 test, 10 test, 10 plus ETOH, etc etc etc. Which one did she take? Doesn't know - did not ask. You can't exactly call up and ask them now, can you? Was not a pleasant weekend - plus we discovered it was apparently a 5 panel illegal drugs only. . . .

so - hahahahaha.

Now - with Dr. Chien onboard here- the OP comes along and says he is presently taking illegal drugs. Or are they? Is he in a state where its legal?

And if he is- does he have an Rx for it? Why?

Oh man.
 
1600vw said:
So I do not agree with you and you attack me. Just becuase I have never heard of being poisoned by drinking to much water. You must have to drink a lot of water. I drink gallons everyday. I drink nothing but water.

So you go ahead and be the bully you are and attack people like myself whom are just giving an opinoin.

I do not have a Comprehension problem, I just do not agree with you. But I see you can not handle that.

Again show me one case where someone died from od'ing on pot then you can call me anything you want.

Fly Smart
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No, I "attack" you because your posts -- all of them -- have little relation to reality. Trust me, I'm being generous calling some of these whoppers lack of comprehension. Every "fact" is completely unverifiable.
 
comanchepilot said:
omg . . . not me. But - lets just say someone I am very close to.

Gets a new job. Job requires a drug test. Night before the drug test, they can't sleep so they take a lorazepam. Not mine either. Not theirs either. An Rx for someone else in the house. She did not ask me before she took it - I would have told her no, given the drug test. The Test is on a Wed. They, er we, are leaving for a weekend away over a long weekend that Saturday.

She signs off the on the test and goes in and pees. And then calls me. "Will they be able to tell I took a lorazepam?"

I"m like - huh? You did what?

So I spend the next 10 min explaining the 5 test, 10 test, 10 plus ETOH, etc etc etc. Which one did she take? Doesn't know - did not ask. You can't exactly call up and ask them now, can you? Was not a pleasant weekend - plus we discovered it was apparently a 5 panel illegal drugs only. . . .

so - hahahahaha.

Now - with Dr. Chien onboard here- the OP comes along and says he is presently taking illegal drugs. Or are they? Is he in a state where its legal?

And if he is- does he have an Rx for it? Why?

Oh man.
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who would have thought the line between pothead and upstanding citizen would become so blurred

along those same lines, I used to think hippies were extinct before I starting fixing up old VW diesels and selling them. Hippies appeared out of the woodwork. Gonna drive on veggie oil and stick it to the oil companies, don't you know. If anyone says one word about bio-diesel, then I only accept cash for the car.
 
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Frank Johnson said:
However, say I were to check no on that question. While that would be a federal offense, how would my box checking ever be proven false if there is no drug test?
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You mean other than telling us?

So we go online to the FAA Airman registry and find Frank Johnson, student pilot. . .

anyone can drop a dime dude. You need to grow up a little bit and accept reality for 2 years and then come back.
 
JHW said:
who would have thought the line between pothead and upstanding citizen would become so blurred.
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Uh, no. This is a federal administration, and under federal law the stuff is still illegal.

That's an affadavit. They really can go after you for lying to a federal offical. Seriously, dude.....that's how they got Martha Stewart.

*****

It never ceases to amaze me how many young dudes think, "what do I have to check to get the desired result" with NO though as to the further consequences.....

Want to do aviation? Take a year out, don't do pot at all. At least then the hair test will be negative. There are 90 day effects from pot (PET scan) even if "...I didn't do it yesterday, man......" But the biggest thing of all is pot makes you stupid for an unspecified amount of "tail" time after the hit, and there is no place in aviaiton for stupid.

No place for lying, either, on a flight deck.
 
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DavidWhite said:
Yeah, but I've tried talking to my friend (also a pilot) about the ramifications on their aviation career should they be caught. Seriously, this person is the biggest pothead ever. Wake and bake, as they say.
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Wake and bake, huh? Well, I sure as hell hope he doesnt fly in the morning...
 
bbchien said:
No place for lying, either, on a flight deck.
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heard that before. "Go ahead and catch a quick nap, don't worry I'm fine. I slept like a log last night" and he wasn't even on pot
 
JHW said:
heard that before. "Go ahead and catch a quick nap, don't worry I'm fine. I slept like a log last night" and he wasn't even on pot
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Well he/she has said that they never fly within 4 hours of doing weed - but if it's anything like alcohol you can still be very affected by it (after 4 hours)
 
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