douglas393
Pattern Altitude
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douglas
So when I sit on the telephone book I can have the same climb rate as tall people?So, short people should have lower climb rates?![]()
![Dunno :dunno: :dunno:](/community/styles/poa/poa_smilies/dunno.gif)
So when I sit on the telephone book I can have the same climb rate as tall people?So, short people should have lower climb rates?![]()
Well short people are lower, makes sence to me![]()
He is long gone. He is actually a somewhat well known accelerated IFR instructor. His statement NEVER made any sense, but there was no discussing it. He made it 3 days with me and was gone. I was just remembering this exchange (happened back in 2004) and I wondered if it was common at all or as odd as it struck me. Seems the general concensus is that it is simply an odd-ball statement.
I tell my students, "Don't believe anything I say, verify it in your books after the lesson. I'm not Jesus, I don't preach the Gospel."
Wise CFI, I wish more taught that. The instrument training for the PPL shouldn't just be to check a box, or to make sure VFR-only pilots are scared of IMC. Having a good scan can save you from embarrassing "how did that happen moments" -- or worse.Then there's the fact that it is perfectly legal and sensible while in IMC under VFR to glance at any instrument that will help... in fact, I recall the CFI I did my night requirements with telling me "See that? This is basically IFR flying" when I made my first night takeoff under an overcast, with no ground lights near the horizon ahead of us. He didn't mean to say "This is illegal", he just meant that the IFR-style instrument-scan training for VFR students was for more than just the "turnaround from inadvertent IMC".
I'm still a newbie student, but I've been taught to always climb Vy on takeoff. Granted, I have not been to another airport yet, but what would be the reason for not climbing at Vy? Obviously if there is an obstruction, best angle of climb Vx would be appropriate. I'm wondering if a shallow angle of climb as the OP describes is ever prudent.
Just curious. Sorry for the thread creep.
Your climb should cost the same as everyone elses. Fair pricing across the board.So, short people should have lower climb rates?![]()
At my airport, once clear of obstructions you lower the nose, otherwise you WILL quickly be in Class Bravo airspace.
Question for the instructors out there. I once had an instructor who insisted that "If you can't see the horizon over the nose of the aircraft, you are IFR". He would never allow the nose of the AC over the horizon and would immediately bark if it occured.
During a long climb, I'll often not be able to see the horizon over the nose. With great side visibility, it isn't a problem of losing spatial orientation (in my opinion). Granted, for a long climb at a steep angle, I'll often make a small turn left and right to make sure someone else isn't doing the same thing and climbing into me, but I never understood his strong objection.
Thoughts? Opinions?
Well when you're climbing out or doing power on stalls, you can no longer see the horizon over the cowling. But you can still see the horizon on either side and therefore are still VFR. It when when a VFR pilot can no longer see the horizon at all that he is IFR and needs to call ATC.
And when you are on final you certainly are not looking at the horizon; you would be looking at your aiming point.
Yup...exactly right. Especially in the summer, you won't fly much if at all if you need the horizon. I've flown countless times with no horizon--soloed on a day without one. Sure, it makes some maneuvers like steep turns more difficult to do visually, but it's not dangerous at all...certainly not IMC.
I'm not instrument rated. Recently on a late night flight over a rural area I ended up above a low layer of fog. All the lights on the ground suddenly started disappearing. I was able to make out only some of the trucks' taillights on the interstate but it was as if I was wearing sunglasses at night. The only reference I had was those truck lights. No horizon in sight. I did call ATC and they kept me on their radar and even had me do a standard rate 180 degree turn. Just those dim truck lights were enough to help me stay level while ATC guided me to my airport by following the interstate for about 10 miles. I am not saying it's OK to fly over/through fog at night. I'm just saying that I ended up in a situation where I could not see the horizon yet because of ground lights (and help from ATC) I was able to get back to the airport and land. That was the longest 10 miles I've ever flown.![]()
You're right! Thanks.If there was fog, there probably wasn't an overcast. Turn down/off the instrument panel lights, and look for the stars.
Well when you're climbing out or doing power on stalls, you can no longer see the horizon over the cowling. But you can still see the horizon on either side and therefore are still VFR. It when when a VFR pilot can no longer see the horizon at all that he is IFR and needs to call ATC.
And when you are on final you certainly are not looking at the horizon; you would be looking at your aiming point.
I'm not instrument rated. Recently on a late night flight over a rural area I ended up above a low layer of fog. All the lights on the ground suddenly started disappearing. I was able to make out only some of the trucks' taillights on the interstate but it was as if I was wearing sunglasses at night. The only reference I had was those truck lights. No horizon in sight. I did call ATC and they kept me on their radar and even had me do a standard rate 180 degree turn. Just those dim truck lights were enough to help me stay level while ATC guided me to my airport by following the interstate for about 10 miles. I am not saying it's OK to fly over/through fog at night. I'm just saying that I ended up in a situation where I could not see the horizon yet because of ground lights (and help from ATC) I was able to get back to the airport and land. That was the longest 10 miles I've ever flown.![]()
Wise CFI, I wish more taught that. The instrument training for the PPL shouldn't just be to check a box, or to make sure VFR-only pilots are scared of IMC. Having a good scan can save you from embarrassing "how did that happen moments" -- or worse.