Empty cargo planes roam the skies

Let'sgoflying! said:
T or F?View attachment 128524
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Maybe back in the day when everything was paper driven and you didn’t know your load until it was weighed on the dock. Now nearly every box has physical dimensions and weight upon being dropped off, that “unexpected” package volume has to be exceedingly rare.
 
@Sluggo63

Also, that’s a metric crap ton of benjamin bonfires going on by the minute. There likely wasn’t that much on demand opps ever. Not to mention you don’t just rando a wide body into an old airport.
 
Last I knew it was true. As Brad said, they are called sweep or swing flights. Aircraft that are only lightly loaded are given a routing that "sweeps" across the country and are able to land and pick up overflow or replace a grounded flight. The justification is the cost of the extra flight or two is offset by the potential loss of business for failing to deliver guaranteed overnight parcels. All the major logistics carriers have used it over the years.
 
midwestpa24 said:
Last I knew it was true. As Brad said, they are called sweep or swing flights. Aircraft that are only lightly loaded are given a routing that "sweeps" across the country and are able to land and pick up overflow or replace a grounded flight. The justification is the cost of the extra flight or two is offset by the potential loss of business for failing to deliver guaranteed overnight parcels. All the major logistics carriers have used it over the years.
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That makes a lot of sense. I always wondered what they did if a plane gets grounded for a mx issue or something.
 
TCABM said:
@Sluggo63

Also, that’s a metric crap ton of benjamin bonfires going on by the minute. There likely wasn’t that much on demand opps ever. Not to mention you don’t just rando a wide body into an old airport.
Click to expand...

We used to do it with DC8s, fly big orbits in a region in case of a grounded flight. Now spares are kept at the ready, and can launch really fast. But mostly other flights get diverted to collect the volume.

Despite what many consumers might think, making the mission on overnight packages is taken quite seriously.
 
Llewtrah381 said:
With Mothers Day coming up, I wonder if you can have a chemtrail named after someone like you can for stars
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Of course you can!

A-20-M. A-020-m Sky Writing mum & a heart written in
 
Meanwhile, the USPS has unmarked cars driving around to hijack their own trucks anytime the driver seems to be at risk of achieving a delivery commitment by mistake.
 
"Unexpected package volume"? No such thing. They know where the packages are. Efficiency in this business is anticipating the demand with high accuracy and then optimizing the infrastructure accordingly. It's not expecting the unexpected.

- Martin
 
iamtheari said:
Meanwhile, the USPS has unmarked cars driving around to hijack their own trucks anytime the driver seems to be at risk of achieving a delivery commitment by mistake.
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I'm gonna defend them. In my area USPS is a little better than UPS and both are dramatically better than fedex. Fedex consistently fails to find our house (e.g. yesterday) or delivers to the wrong house (e.g. two weeks ago). USPS is wired into some sort of notifications system so my Alexa pings me when a package is delivered to the curb (always wrapped in a sealed plastic bag when weather demands) and is predictable. UPS is great, mostly on time and delivers to my door, instead of the curb. And it's generally the same 3-4 guys. One of them likes to talk about my plane parked in the yard. One of the other ones brings dog treats and, of course, asked first before treating the dogs.

Anyway, USPS FTW. Then UPS. Then Fedex.

I'm sure different areas have different successes.

Also, I like our somewhat old post office. So there's that. Here's our PO boxes...

1715096194412.jpeg
 
rwellner98 said:
I'm gonna defend them. In my area USPS is a little better than UPS and both are dramatically better than fedex. Fedex consistently fails to find our house (e.g. yesterday) or delivers to the wrong house (e.g. two weeks ago). USPS is wired into some sort of notifications system so my Alexa pings me when a package is delivered to the curb (always wrapped in a sealed plastic bag when weather demands) and is predictable. UPS is great, mostly on time and delivers to my door, instead of the curb. And it's generally the same 3-4 guys. One of them likes to talk about my plane parked in the yard. One of the other ones brings dog treats and, of course, asked first before treating the dogs.

Anyway, USPS FTW. Then UPS. Then Fedex.

I'm sure different areas have different successes.

Also, I like our somewhat old post office. So there's that. Here's our PO boxes...

View attachment 128537
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Wow I thought all those were long out of service. They replaced the ones in my pop. 600 town in about 1987. I've got one around here....somewhere.

One of the things I find fascinating about FedEx is the apparently total separation of different services. Last week I had two identical fedex trucks deliver packages to my house within 15min. of each other, one shipped via their ground service, one air.

All three services work pretty well for us, and our usual UPS driver is a hoot. She'll stop and talk to my wife for half an hour.

Amazon on the other hand...
 
Martin Pauly said:
"Unexpected package volume"? No such thing. They know where the packages are. Efficiency in this business is anticipating the demand with high accuracy and then optimizing the infrastructure accordingly. It's not expecting the unexpected.

- Martin
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It's absolutely a thing. But what would I know about sending a thousand pounds of material out on FedEx every so often when it routinely goes on a truck. I've only been doing this 27 years. Have that happen to a handful of companies on the same day out of the same service center and you're scrambling.
 
USPS is pretty indefensible around here.

We have a gated driveway and we prefer not to have people enter unannounced, due to a large dog and a horse that are frequently roaming about. For deliveries, I placed a 4-wheel cart by the fence next to the gate with a sign over it: "Please leave all deliveries in cart."

So around Christmas time, when I ordered a set of Christmas glassware for Mrs. Fast, how did USPS make the delivery? No, not into the very obvious cart under the sign, nor did they leave it on the ground next to the cart. No, they dropped the box (marked fragile, of course) over the fence onto the ground on the other side.

Fortunately none of the glasses were broken, but I continue to be astounded by the incompetence (and apparent inability to read) of our postal workers.

I could share many other tales, but I don't want to elevate my blood pressure.
 
Katamarino said:
Sounds like nonsense. Surely they'd just have them parked in strategic locations ready to go, if anything.
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frfly172 said:
I would highly doubt it,it’s all about the money.
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Like @Brad Z said. It's mostly true. They are called "Sweep Flights" and are designated as such in the bidpack. If you are on a designated Sweep Flight, you are expected to fly the flight planned route, and not take any directs. They are flown in a circuitous route to cover airports where there is high priority freight that can't be left behind in cast of a down airplane.

It is a lot of money, but the bean counters have decided that it's better to fly these longer flights and get the P1 to its destination on time than it is to save the gas.

The most infamous Sweep Flight at FedEx is FX1311 from DEN to MEM. It starts off going west past ABQ before turning south to fly east of TUS, then it starts heading east over DFW as it makes its way to MEM.

1715097631473.png

I know people on here complain about FedEx (and other delivery services) missing deliveries. And like another poster said, it really comes down to your location and what your drivers are like that determines how good your delivery rate is. But, for the high dollar customers, the ones sending thousands of pounds of P1 (or hazardous, or high value, or temperature sensitive, or live animals), you'd be amazed at how much money FedEx will spend to make sure that stuff gets there on time. There was one customer in Louisiana who shipped jewels on us. Every night. FedEx kept a spare 727 sitting on the ramp in case the operating plane broke, the crew could run over to the other airplane to make sure that shipment made it to its destination.
masloki said:
Maybe back in the day when everything was paper driven and you didn’t know your load until it was weighed on the dock. Now nearly every box has physical dimensions and weight upon being dropped off, that “unexpected” package volume has to be exceedingly rare.
Click to expand...

TCABM said:
@Sluggo63

Also, that’s a metric crap ton of benjamin bonfires going on by the minute. There likely wasn’t that much on demand opps ever. Not to mention you don’t just rando a wide body into an old airport.
Click to expand...

Martin Pauly said:
"Unexpected package volume"? No such thing. They know where the packages are. Efficiency in this business is anticipating the demand with high accuracy and then optimizing the infrastructure accordingly. It's not expecting the unexpected.

- Martin
Click to expand...
Unexpected volume is more common that you think. It happens. A large supplier gets a big, last minute order and rushes it to the local ramp. That stuff gets put on a plane. I've had more than a handful of times where a ramp agent comes up and says "we're adding another 10,000 pounds of freight we just got... how much more gas do you want?"
 
Jim K said:
One of the things I find fascinating about FedEx is the apparently total separation of different services. Last week I had two identical fedex trucks deliver packages to my house within 15min. of each other, one shipped via their ground service, one air.
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This is changing. Back in the day, a FedEx Express package would never see the inside of a FedEx Ground truck, or vice versa. Now the operating companies are merging the streams so packages will flow between the two to be more efficient.

I won't get into what I think about that... I just get paid to drive the bus.
 
Sluggo63 said:
This is changing. Back in the day, a FedEx Express package would never see the inside of a FedEx Ground truck, or vice versa. Now the operating companies are merging the streams so packages will flow between the two to be more efficient.

I won't get into what I think about that... I just get paid to drive the bus.
Click to expand...

If you want to understand my opinion of FedEx, take a few minutes to peruse this thread:
pilotsofamerica.com

FedEx strikes again...

Some time ago I sent an oil sample off to AvLab for analysis. FedEx got it from USPS on 1/30. For the past month it has bounced back and forth between Southaven, MS and Memphis, TN. They cannot seem to get the package into Lousisiana. For your amusement (and my frustration), here's the...
pilotsofamerica.com pilotsofamerica.com

I ended up contacting one of FedEx's VPs in order to get my package unstuck. FedEx "customer service" actually services customers in much the same way a bull services a herd of cows.
 
I don't have a problem with any of them, FedEx, UPS, Amazon, USPS are all fairly reliable in my area. However, USPS is the only one that has a tracking service that never seems to know where your package is until it gets put in your mailbox, lol. UPS will say "on truck out for delivery", FedEx will say "the truck is two streets over, we'll be at your door by the time you finish reading this", Amazon will say "I put it on the nightstand since you were sleeping when we came by", and USPS says "package enroute to sorting facility, estimated delivery date tomorrow or next week, your guess is as good as ours". The packages almost always arrive undamaged and within an acceptable window of time.
 
Fedex seems to be monitoring this thread. About 25 minutes after my complaint above they showed up with the package they were unable to deliver properly yesterday.
 
When I lived in Alaska and you wanted to spend money and not get the item delivered, use UPS. Mail theft was common in the villages so USPS was risky, unless sent Priority. Safest to send anything was FedEx. Funny part was everything, UPS, FedEx and USPS first class, over night and last class mail all went out to the villages on the same plane... :lol:

Here in New Mexico if you want to spend money and not have the item delivered, use UPS.

Lately here in NM, USPS has been the most dependable and affordable. But USPS doesn't deliver outside the city limits, so everyone has to have a PO box, which seems to be going up in price every year.
 
Zeldman said:
But USPS doesn't deliver outside the city limits, so everyone has to have a PO box,
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Bwah?
We (rural, outside town) get usps delivery to our roadside mailbox
In fact, we had a box in town and the PM told us we had the right (like 500 others in the area) to have roadside delivery.
Federal service, so it can’t be a states differences thing.
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
Federal service, so it can’t be a states differences thing.
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You are right.

We didn't get home delivery in Alaska villages either, but that is really rural. And we didn't pay to have a PO box.

I'll ask the PO here again why no delivery outside the city limit, think I'll get an answer besides ''We don't know''.??
 
Zeldman said:
You are right.

We didn't get home delivery in Alaska villages either, but that is really rural. And we didn't pay to have a PO box.

I'll ask the PO here again why no delivery outside the city limit, think I'll get an answer besides ''We don't know''.??
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Maybe it’s in here:

653 Extensions

653.1 Definition

* * * * *

[Revise the note in 653.1 as follows:]

Note: Provide carrier service to persons who erect approved boxes on the line of travel of the rural carrier and to persons for whom approved Cluster Box Units (CBUs) or USPS STD 4C equipment and/or parcel lockers are erected and maintained by the Postal Service on the carrier’s line of travel. No rural carrier service may be extended to persons residing within the boundary formed by existing city delivery service.

* * * * *

 
Zeldman said:
Lately here in NM, USPS has been the most dependable and affordable. But USPS doesn't deliver outside the city limits, so everyone has to have a PO box, which seems to be going up in price every year.
Click to expand...
Our USPS office only does delivery outside city limits, unless you're a large development with a centralized mailbox. Inside city limits, they generally refuse to do mail delivery to street addresses. If you send a mail article to my company's street address, which hasn't changed in 40 years, they will return it undeliverable. They also stopped putting notices of certified mail into PO boxes, so you have to take the tracking number to the counter to ask if your certified mail has arrived. One time, they locked my PO box because they hadn't received my payment, which happened because I mailed it to them and they lost it. I won't even start on business mail like original documents they lost just in time for the person signing them to die and be unable to sign a replacement, or the times they have returned mail to my PO box as "undeliverable as addressed." I don't know how much more core mission it gets for the USPS than putting an envelope with a PO box address on it into the corresponding box.

The worst recent one was when I was waiting in line for 45 minutes on Saturday to get the package that Informed Delivery said was to be delivered on Monday (but, when I waited in line 45 minutes on Monday, they said they had no idea where it was and couldn't contact the distribution/sorting center because their relationship had gotten too bad for the center to take their calls). A woman ahead of me in line waited about an hour to ask where they had dumped her wedding dress. It was clear that her wedding was rapidly approaching but she kept her cool. Their best guess was that it was out with a rural carrier to stuff into her roadside mailbox. I told her not to worry, though. They probably lost her invitations, too, so nobody would be there to see if her dress had been lost or damaged.

All of the major delivery services have done something I hate over the years. UPS destroyed a package I had sent to myself with insurance. The insurance amounted to them sending it back to my former address and dumping the broken contents there. FedEx ran over a computer motherboard I was returning to Newegg and then charged me to use a fax machine in a Fedex store to file a claim, which they then ignored. I don't recall the details of my DHL bad experience but I know I had one out of the one time I ever used them, which is pretty bad odds. But USPS is the worst. Locally, UPS is the best because they use their own trucks for final delivery. FedEx (other than the highest end services) contracts out so you'll get random rented box trucks showing up to deliver a package at the wrong address.

Back to the topic of the thread, though, I had a nice conversation with a FedEx A&P a few years ago. He was telling me about how these companies make fleet decisions in large part based on keeping those delivery commitments. For example, if you can go direct from Memphis to Tokyo without stopping at Anchorage, you can leave Memphis later in the day and still be next-day in Tokyo. I think that the overall logistics and decision making at these companies are fascinating subjects. And not only because I wrote a detailed paper on Hadley v. Baxendale one time many years ago.
 
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iamtheari said:
Back to the topic of the thread, though, I had a nice conversation with a FedEx A&P a few years ago. He was telling me about how these companies make fleet decisions in large part based on keeping those delivery commitments. For example, if you can go direct from Memphis to Tokyo without stopping at Anchorage, you can leave Memphis later in the day and still be next-day in Tokyo. I think that the overall logistics and decision making at these companies are fascinating subjects. And not only because I wrote a detailed paper on Hadley v. Baxendale one time many years ago.
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That's one of the reasons FedEx used 727s as long as they did. They weren't so concerned about fuel and labor costs as much as dispatch-ability. The 727 was nice for certain terrain constrained airports because its one engine inoperative performance meant it could carry more payload than the equivalent twin cargo aircraft. Its no surprise the only airlines using 747s these days are cargo carriers.
 
Half Fast said:
USPS is pretty indefensible around here.

We have a gated driveway and we prefer not to have people enter unannounced, due to a large dog and a horse that are frequently roaming about. For deliveries, I placed a 4-wheel cart by the fence next to the gate with a sign over it: "Please leave all deliveries in cart."

So around Christmas time, when I ordered a set of Christmas glassware for Mrs. Fast, how did USPS make the delivery? No, not into the very obvious cart under the sign, nor did they leave it on the ground next to the cart. No, they dropped the box (marked fragile, of course) over the fence onto the ground on the other side.

Fortunately none of the glasses were broken, but I continue to be astounded by the incompetence (and apparent inability to read) of our postal workers.

I could share many other tales, but I don't want to elevate my blood pressure.
Click to expand...
Mine likes to put only heavy packages right up against the gate that swings outward. So that there's no way to get out to get it. As you say, light packages get thrown over the fence.
 
iamtheari said:
Our USPS office only does delivery outside city limits, unless you're a large development with a centralized mailbox. Inside city limits, they generally refuse to do mail delivery to street addresses. If you send a mail article to my company's street address, which hasn't changed in 40 years, they will return it undeliverable. They also stopped putting notices of certified mail into PO boxes, so you have to take the tracking number to the counter to ask if your certified mail has arrived. One time, they locked my PO box because they hadn't received my payment, which happened because I mailed it to them and they lost it. I won't even start on business mail like original documents they lost just in time for the person signing them to die and be unable to sign a replacement, or the times they have returned mail to my PO box as "undeliverable as addressed." I don't know how much more core mission it gets for the USPS than putting an envelope with a PO box address on it into the corresponding box.

The worst recent one was when I was waiting in line for 45 minutes on Saturday to get the package that Informed Delivery said was to be delivered on Monday (but, when I waited in line 45 minutes on Monday, they said they had no idea where it was and couldn't contact the distribution/sorting center because their relationship had gotten too bad for the center to take their calls). A woman ahead of me in line waited about an hour to ask where they had dumped her wedding dress. It was clear that her wedding was rapidly approaching but she kept her cool. Their best guess was that it was out with a rural carrier to stuff into her roadside mailbox. I told her not to worry, though. They probably lost her invitations, too, so nobody would be there to see if her dress had been lost or damaged.

All of the major delivery services have done something I hate over the years. UPS destroyed a package I had sent to myself with insurance. The insurance amounted to them sending it back to my former address and dumping the broken contents there. FedEx ran over a computer motherboard I was returning to Newegg and then charged me to use a fax machine in a Fedex store to file a claim, which they then ignored. I don't recall the details of my DHL bad experience but I know I had one out of the one time I ever used them, which is pretty bad odds. But USPS is the worst. Locally, UPS is the best because they use their own trucks for final delivery. FedEx (other than the highest end services) contracts out so you'll get random rented box trucks showing up to deliver a package at the wrong address.

Back to the topic of the thread, though, I had a nice conversation with a FedEx A&P a few years ago. He was telling me about how these companies make fleet decisions in large part based on keeping those delivery commitments. For example, if you can go direct from Memphis to Tokyo without stopping at Anchorage, you can leave Memphis later in the day and still be next-day in Tokyo. I think that the overall logistics and decision making at these companies are fascinating subjects. And not only because I wrote a detailed paper on Hadley v. Baxendale one time many years ago.
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Yeef.!! Maybe I should be happy to only drive 4.3 miles to the post office twice a week.


iamtheari said:
One time, they locked my PO box because they hadn't received my payment, which happened because I mailed it to them and they lost it.
Click to expand...

Now that is too funny... :lol:
 
I guess the thing I learned in this thread is that this is yet another example of there being no single answer for everyone. It's like internet at my old place in Mexico. The options were Telmex, Mega Cable, TotalPlay and Starlink, and the best one varied neighborhood by neighborhood, sometimes block by block.

The variability in USPS had me thinking about the place I used to have in suburban Chicago. We had the same carrier for a really long time, maybe 20 years or more. He made USPS look fantastic. After he retired we have a multi-year run of different people. A couple were ok, but several were absolutely terrible. I guess maybe our currently positive experience might be due to a good carrier also. If so, I'll cross my fingers that they are 28 years old, hoping to retire with a government pension and will be working my route until I die. :p
 
rwellner98 said:
After he retired we have a multi-year run of different people. A couple were ok, but several were absolutely terrible.
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That reminded me of my sister's experience a few years ago. She was living in rural area in south Georgia at the time, near a tiny town where the PO was located. I mailed her something and it was taking forever to arrive. In fact, all her mail delivery seemed to slow way down about that time, so she went into the post office and inquired.

Turns out the post office only had two drivers for their area, and one got a DUI bust so they were down to one and it would often take him two or three days to cover the entire delivery route.
 
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